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#1635326 - 03/06/11 11:44 PM Private Messages - censored?
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4610
Loc: not somewhere over the rainbow
Okay, I understand public forums being "censored". But private messages, really? That's so unfair. I have friends here that I would like to talk to freely and vent with - and I can't! Noody sees these messages anyway, what's the problem?

Freedom of speech...?
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"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."

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#1635330 - 03/06/11 11:52 PM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3996
Loc: Bay Area, CA
It could just be a software thing. There are lots of similarities between posting and writing PM's. I bet large parts of the same software code are used for both, and it's probably not possible to censor messages and not PM's. Annoying, I agree.

-J

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#1635332 - 03/06/11 11:54 PM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13825
Loc: Iowa City, IA
That's just how the software works. And since anybody can send anybody a PM, it's safer.

If you know somebody well enough to vent and talk freely with, you also know them well enough to exchange email addresses or friend them on Facebook. (That's what I do - and I rather like getting to know forum people on FB.) laugh
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1635333 - 03/06/11 11:55 PM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4610
Loc: not somewhere over the rainbow
PW just gets better and better every day.
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"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."

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#1635335 - 03/06/11 11:56 PM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4610
Loc: not somewhere over the rainbow
By the way did you decide to censor it because of me? You could've asked me to leave, you know (or shut up).. would've made things easier =)

Plus messages on PW are SO much better than facebook, I like the colour and the whole space, and the characters and fonts, colours etc. Kind of ruined now though.


Edited by Pogorelich. (03/06/11 11:57 PM)
_________________________

"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."

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#1635347 - 03/07/11 12:10 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5978
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Boy am I in trouble -

How "censored"? I thought the mods couldn't read the pm's - does the software just notify them of 4-letter words or something?

Cathy
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Cathy

Practice like you are the worst; play like you are the best - anonymous

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#1635348 - 03/07/11 12:11 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: jotur]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6262
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: jotur
Boy am I in trouble -

How "censored"? I thought the mods couldn't read the pm's - does the software just notify them of 4-letter words or something?

Cathy


I think censoring words on PW is new now, so there's nothing to worry about. What was done before the censoring should not be used against you now.

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#1635350 - 03/07/11 12:15 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5978
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Thanks OSK, but I don't think I've used 4-letter words even in pm's.

But slander -

:\

Cathy
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Cathy

Practice like you are the worst; play like you are the best - anonymous

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#1635351 - 03/07/11 12:15 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1457
Loc: Australia
On another forum I visit, the Admins decided to change software settings to replace um, colourful language.
For example, typing one particular word, resulted in the words, 'Ryan Seacrest' being substituted ha
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Rob

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#1635353 - 03/07/11 12:16 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5978
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
A forum I frequent does that, too. You can no longer say "hotwater bottle" with the first word as all one word smile

Cathy
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Cathy

Practice like you are the worst; play like you are the best - anonymous

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#1635354 - 03/07/11 12:18 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: jotur]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1457
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: jotur
A forum I frequent does that, too. You can no longer say "hotwater bottle" with the first word as all one word smile

Cathy


That's gold laugh
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Rob

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#1635358 - 03/07/11 12:30 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9063
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Word of warning: Private Messages aren't really private. I do not know if moderators can read them -and I doubt Kreisler will admit to anything- but believe me, the owner of this website CAN read them if he chooses to. He owns the website, that is within his jurisdiction.

I found that out the hard way on another (non-musical) db. Whew, that wasn't pretty. cry

Whenever I get into extensive PMs with people here, I always ask to switch over to independent email.
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Jason

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#1635362 - 03/07/11 12:46 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13825
Loc: Iowa City, IA
The censoring is automatically done by the software. Mods (like me) *cannot* access your private messages. I don't think the admins can either, but I'll ask them.

FYI - I only have the ability to do edit, lock, and move topics and posts. I can also see the ip address where each post originated. I have no special access to user accounts. I see the same stuff about you that every ody else does.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1635364 - 03/07/11 12:48 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5978
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Whew!

laugh

Cathy
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Cathy

Practice like you are the worst; play like you are the best - anonymous

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#1635368 - 03/07/11 12:58 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Admins with cpanel access to the server can query the database for anything they want to see.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1635374 - 03/07/11 01:15 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7164
Loc: So. California
One of the more colorful people on P.C. was talking to me on PM and a lot of words appeared with [Censored] on it.

Like ..."I don't know a [Censored] thing about what you're talking about" (just a sample).

So I figured what the word was. LOL. I actually thought it was typed in manually but then it occurred so often that I had to think.

No Cathy, it wasn't you...:)

So that's when I discovered this "new" feature.
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My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP


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#1635375 - 03/07/11 01:18 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7164
Loc: So. California
It should be obvious that Frank can see anything he wants to see. If it's not obvious, then I'll teach you something. The person managing your email system COULD read your emails too.

In fact this is so obvious that by law (US), Physicians cannot talk to/about patients by email.

I have no doubt that someone at Facebook can read your private messages as well.

...it gets worse. Ever hear of a "packet analyzer"?
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Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP


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#1635402 - 03/07/11 03:40 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Orange Soda King]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 20317
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
....I think censoring words on PW is new now....

OK -- that explains a little surprise I had yesterday.

I typed "heck" in a post yesterday but it came out as "heck."
Nothing like that ever happened before. I mean, I'm pretty sure I said "heck" a few times in the past and it always came out before as "heck," just the way I typed it, but this time it came out as "heck."

Edit: So.....they all came out as heck.
Not that I didn't expect it. ha

P.S. If anyone doesn't know what was the word that I typed instead of "heck"......well, that's easy -- just look it up in the dictionary under.....aah, what the heck, if I type it again I'm sure it'll just come out again as "heck".....

In fact, now you never know if someone said "heck" or "heck."
(Dam, 2 hecks again.) ha

BTW: For what it's worth, IMHO it would have been good to announce the new automatic censor when it was put in. Not that much of a big deal, but it would have been a 'nice touch' rather than making us be taken by surprise.


Edited by Mark_C (03/07/11 03:48 AM)
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1635408 - 03/07/11 04:12 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Mark_C]
Cinnamonbear Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 4133
Loc: Rockford, IL
Well, as someone who values freedom of expression, be it musical, artistic or otherwise, I gotst a real problem wit dis.

I do not understand how anyone with any respect for expression can think it is o.k. to have a machine change the language that I choose to type. If there are offensive key words not to be used in public discourse, then that should be made clear in the user agreement or something. If people can't obey the rules, they should be invited to leave for a time. But having a machine automatically "search" and "replace" words that I have typed on purpose makes me cringe, shudder, sweat, and puke in fear of where "We" are headed. (I mean, has anyone else read "We" by Yevgeny Zamyatin? Know what I mean?) What's next? Will the machine be programmed to not allow any discussion of the use of A min. or F# maj.? I know this is Frank's house and everything... And I am more than happy to take my shoes off at the door it those are his rules, but, un-censored expletive! I am not joking when I say that I am majorly disappointed by this turn of events!

Would anyone like to join me in shouting the word "Transparency!" from the Piano World rooftops? Criminently!!!

I would rather have a hot discussion thread about the degradation of discourse than a machine making my writing choices!
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1635420 - 03/07/11 04:35 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Dorset, UK
The owner of a web site can run it anyway s/he likes. What's the problem with that? It's not a cooperative venture. If a user - or all users - takes exception to how it's run, then people can vote with their feet. Rather ironic for me to make such a statement, which is consistent with our brave new Anglo-Saxon free market which is ruining the planet. I despise the free market jungle and the deceit of globalisation which just enriches the already rich and in fact rather favour cooperative ventures, but this forum is a facility which has been made available for us to use: we don't co-own it.
We do have choices, but we have to decide which choices are available to us.

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#1635425 - 03/07/11 04:41 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 20317
Loc: New York
I would like to suggest that the auto-sensor automatically convert every mention of crescendo or decrescendo to "hairpin," because that's usually what people are actually talking about, and I think it's "dirty" to call them crescendos and decrescendos. smile
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1635427 - 03/07/11 04:46 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1457
Loc: Australia
Yeah, and if it could automatically determine when a song is not a song, that would be heck good smirk
_________________________
Rob

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#1635428 - 03/07/11 04:52 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2521
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: sandalholme
The owner of a web site can run it anyway s/he likes.


True enough.

But the owner of this site gives the option to send a private message. It is the site that uses this formulation. To then intervene in private messages in any way is kind of pathetic.

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#1635433 - 03/07/11 05:33 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
PW just gets better and better every day.

1+
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Slow down and do it right.

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#1635435 - 03/07/11 05:37 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 20317
Loc: New York
May we ask, what precipitated this recent change? Was there some problem?

I'm actually even more concerned about this automatic censorship of the forums than of PM's (maybe because I don't PM). smile

And I hadn't noticed any problem with obscenities or anything like that on the forums.....I do notice occasionally that posts get edited by moderators for obscenity, but from what I ever saw, that seemed quite rare.

Let me give a professional opinion, which I don't think I've ever done before on here. It looks to me like the site is going slightly insane. smile
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1635446 - 03/07/11 06:36 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: sandalholme]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8398
Originally Posted By: sandalholme
The owner of a web site can run it anyway s/he likes. What's the problem with that? It's not a cooperative venture.


While it is obvious that the owner of a site can run it however they want, you are wrong about the cooperative aspect, because this site would be nothing without all the users. It definitely is a cooperative venture, even if the control mechanisms do not reside with the users. In case you haven't noticed, it is the users that are creating the content, not the site owner.





Edited by wr (03/07/11 06:45 AM)

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#1635461 - 03/07/11 07:46 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6416
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Kind of ruined now though.


I only ever noticed a few questionable words from any forum member. Synonyms of urinate, defecate, and fornicate, mostly. So shut the fornicating up you urinating defecator. laugh
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#1635463 - 03/07/11 07:47 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Damon]
GeorgeB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 635
lol i never receive PMs so i never get to experience this haha

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#1635466 - 03/07/11 07:52 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10582
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Not a very effective censor, I might add. Of George Carlin's seven dirty words, it bleeps only three of them. smile
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https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1635472 - 03/07/11 08:07 AM Re: Private Messages - censored? [Re: Mark_C]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13825
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
May we ask, what precipitated this recent change? Was there some problem?

Let me give a professional opinion, which I don't think I've ever done before on here. It looks to me like the site is going slightly insane. smile


The change isn't that recent. It happened about a year ago when the software was updated I think. Overall, censoring has been a welcome addition. We try to make sure the site has a PG rating, and since it was implemented, it's greatly reduced having to fix people's posts manually.

And the forums go predictably insane about once every year or so. It might interest you to know that it's fairly predictable, and the same things happen each time. New users mysteriously pop up, posts go quasi-viral with garbage, some people leave... The topics raised in this thread have also been raised before. PM privacy, the abilities of moderators, who the site really "belongs" to, etc...
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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