Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Korg SV-1 vs. Roland RD 300NX

I am in the market for a stage piano and have narrowed down my choices to the Korg SV-1 and the Roland 300NX. I would love advice from folks on this board who have experience with either (I know the 300NX is not out yet, so I mean experience with the 700NX). I know these posts usually generate a ton of questions from those who want to help, so at the risk of being long-winded, I’ve decided to include a lot of info about what I’m looking for.

I am not a keyboardist. I am a guitar player who writes and records. I would, however, like to begin teaching myself piano in earnest, and then move on to formal lessons. For this reason, the issue of “feel”, which I know is very important to the real pianists on this board, is not as important to me (yet).

Sound, on the other hand, is another matter. I own an upright piano, and have previously owned both a Rhodes and Wurli. I love them all, but now I need something that does not require regular maintenance and which will allow me to practice and record silently. Because my ear was trained (spoiled?) by my analog gear, I am very picky about tone. Even when I’m playing block chords on a recording that has 10 other instruments (all of which I suck at, by the way), I want things to sound organic and musical. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it has to be a perfect replication of its analog equivalent – it just has to have natural variation, organic strike and decay, and it has to sound good all by itself. I am 90% interested in acoustic piano, Rhodes and Wurli emulation. Organs, Clavs, strings, etc. are not as important to me.

I have done a lot of research, and have played both the Korg and Roland (700NX) in stores. The reason I’m posting is because I want to know from you owners out there whether it is possible to tweak either of these boards to compensate for what I perceive to be their relative shortcomings. Namely, I think the Korg acoustic piano is not as good as the Roland, but I think the Roland EP’s are not as (immediately) impressive. I also find the Korg design to be far superior, and I’m wondering if the Roland can be set up to make things like instrument, preamp, and effects as easy to call up as they are on the Korg.

Here are my opinions so far:

Korg: brilliant design (I hate menus and manuals), excellent Rhodes and Wurli, but unfortunately I find the acoustic piano sounds to be good but not outstanding. I have not heard the Sound Pack 2 sounds yet, however, so please chime in if you have. For the SV owners out there: Is it possible to improve the SV’s acoustic piano sounds to get anything close to the sound of the Roland SN pianos, or a good software modeler (like Pianoteq)?

If anyone wants to hear a great, detailed example of the differences in tone between these (or any other) dp’s, without being distracted by a given performance, check out Dewster’s awesome mp3 collection here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=7ef2fd9c0f59e62824a64199ac7f73e562543888620acf74e91dc00c2f906379%3Cbr%20/%3E#1,1

Roland: In my opinion the Roland Super Natural acoustic pianos are clearly superior to any other stage piano sound. This might be because I am partial to modeling over sampling, and I know the Roland SN technology uses a combination. However, I have not been able to adequately tweak a Roland to get the same kind of organic EP sound that I get instantly on the Korg. So, a question for the 700NX owners out there: can you tweak the Roland to get the Rhodes and Wurlis to sound as good as the Korg EP’s? And after you have arrived at a perfect patch, how easy is it to save it and call it back up?

Incidentally I’ve eliminated the Yamaha CP50 and Kawai MP6 because the acoustic piano sounds are not to my taste. I realize that they are both highly customizable, and I have not spent nearly enough time with either of them to really determine how to max them out, but as you can see, part of my thing is that I want to be able to sit down and go. Also, I can’t afford a Nord Piano, and I don’t want a software-based solution.

Lastly, and this is off-topic but I’ll throw it out there anyway, the Korg SV and the Nord boards are the only DP’s I’ve ever played that have the vibe of a “real” instrument. I can’t understand why Roland, Yamaha, Kawai, etc. can’t design a board that doesn’t look like a black (or grey) plastic rectangle. Think about the design diversity of electric guitars, or even acoustic upright pianos. Why do modern keyboards have to be so boring?

Sorry for the long post, but I’ve thought about this a lot and I’m looking forward to hearing from people who are both technically and musically where I hope to be in 2 or 3 years. This board is just incredibly helpful for someone who is hoping to grow into an instrument.

Thanks!

I've not been able to check out an SV-1 with the Sound Pack 2 APs in place, but there are (or were) some demos of the new sounds on the Korg website and I have to say they seemed to be a great improvement on the shipped sounds. I briefly had a SV1-73 (sold mostly because I couldn't get on with the limited note range) and the EPs and clavs blow anything Roland can offer out of the water. And even the original APs sound pretty good in a band setting. Here are some videos of the SV-1 in use.

The Roland will almost definitely have a more responsive keybed and better APs, although in the past these have proved problematic in band settings - I can't say how much the "Sound Focus" feature on the new Rolands has helped that problem. I love Roland's keybeds (I also owned an RD700GX) but if it was the pick of these two, I'd still probably go for the Korg.

Nice solo Aidan on 'It Had To Be You'. The SV-1 sounds pretty darn good, but more importantly it sounds good in the mix and cuts through really well. I'd have to agree, I'd go with the SV-1 88, although, if not for live use, I'd goo with the R-300NX and get the RPU-3 Triple Pedals to go with it.



I'd have to agree. I have a had my fair share of DPs and the NP88 without a doubt has the coolest, most 'real' vibe, whether I'm playing Wurlitzer/Rhodes or the outstanding acoustic and upright pianos. Best stage piano I've owned by a long shot.

By "limited note range" are you referring to the 73 keys? That brings up another question - for the songwriting and recording stuff I do there is no reason to have 88 keys. However, insofar as I'd like to start really learning how to play jazz, and also some (modern, French) classical, should I definitely get the 88 key SV-1?

I think it's unlikely that I'll be playing in a band setting. There are a lot of real keyboardists where I live. This is mostly for home use and recording. Is there a reason you'd prefer the RD300NX in that situation?

I would just go with an 88 key keyboard from the start that way you don't have to worry about 'upgrading' later, besides, pay for the 88 keys won't cost much more than the 73 key, and if you're wanting to start taking piano more serious as you alluded, you'd likely be better off getting the full range of the piano going with an 88 key board.

As far as what's better for home...well you'd most certainly be better off I'd think with the Roland. I've had an RD-700GXF and RD-300GX, and used both for live use, and was very unhappy with both, even the 700GXF with its SN pianos. So for home use, if I were you, I'd go with the RD-300NX with the RPU-3 pedals, or even take a look at the FP-7F with RPU-3 pedals. The Roland, especially with the SuperNATURAL pianos sound really incredible through headphones and studio monitors, but as soon as I put them on stage, those same pianos sounded totally neutered-just anemic. Thus if you were going to be playing live, I'd go with the Korg SV-1 because it's cuts through better live, but since you said this will be predominantly for home use, go with the Roland.

Thanks very much for the input - how do you think the Roland SN EP's compare with the Korg?

I have the RD700GX with the Supernatural piano sounds. By far the best DP I've ever owned. I was practicing with an FP-7 before which was also quite good but the 700GX is a whole other level of piano sound. I agree with the above; that the sound through headphones and for recording to digital media is amazing. I also play my board through KRK Rokit 6 speakers and to me, the sound remains incredible. I have not done a gig with the 700 as it is much easier for me to bring my FP7 along but I would imagine that with a high quality sound system, the Roland should sound quite good live.

Check out VKgoeswild on YouTube, particularly her version of Chopin Nocturne, Opus 9, No 2. The piano sound is absolutely fantastic and the dynamics are incredible that she produces with this DP. It makes me realize the power of my DP that I have yet to unleash.

So far these responses (which I really appreciate, by the way), are confirming my suspicion - that the Super Natural piano sounds are peerless among stage pianos. However, my primary question about the Roland remains - is it possible to get EP sounds that are as good as the SV1, and also to set up the board so they are instantly accessible?

I'm no EP expert, but you might want to look at this post over at Rolandclan:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33363

It's pretty easy to edit and save setups on the NX.

Too bad Korg got overly ambitious (IMO) with the AP sounds in the SV-1. If they'd stuck to a single AP they probably could have eliminated stretching. They should blend the layers and come up with a key sympathetic resonance algorithm too. Otherwise, for a looper, it's technically pretty good.

dewster, how are new visitors to this forum supposed to interpret such information?

You begin by criticising the Korg's AP sounds, but then summarise with "it's technically pretty good" - what does that mean?



Cheers,
James
x

If this is for home use and recording why not a virtual software piano? With software you can pick and choose the EP you like and the AP you like from different vendors. If you are recording you likely already have a computer set up.

Confused noobs (not that there's anything wrong with that) can become PW members (it's free!) and ask me what the heck I'm talking about . Whereupon I would direct them to the squinty fine print at the bottom of the DPBSD thread.


IMO, Korg starts out strong with pretty long attack and loop samples (as these things go, and not that I am a fan of looping in any way), but then dilutes the offering by (in order of decreasing importance IMO):

1. Stretching the sample set
2. Not blending the velocity layers
3. Not implementing key sympathetic resonance.

Instead of two piano voices, if they'd stuck to one they could have avoided the first item in that list of CONs, the most egregious offender IMO (after looping, IMO).

IMO.

Okay, thank you for clarifying this.

I very much doubt Korg would ever develop a stage piano with just a single acoustic piano. Moreover, I suspect consumers would prefer the variety/flexibility of two 44-key AP patches over a single 88-key sound.



Are you sure about this? A brief Google search suggests that the SV-1 does offer string resonance and key-off samples etc.

Cheers,
James
x

This is what I was thinking. I can understand the need for wanting some killer AP and EP sounds to choose from on stage, but for home use when their is a multitude of software pianos to choose from the on board sound doesn't matter as much as the action does.

Although, it can become pricey buying those virtual pianos and if your forking out 1600 bones on a new DP it better darn come with some killer sounds, sounds that don't need to be replaced virtually!

Suffice it to say that I work on software all day long, and when I come home I just want to throw on some headphones, flip a switch, and go, you know what I mean? The last thing I want to do is stare at another screen, reboot/troubleshoot when latency creeps in, etc., etc., etc. This is supposed to be the way that I get AWAY from computers, to the extent that's possible. That's why I said in the original post that I'm not interested in a software solution.

I think it's cool that people are starting to really analyze the way these machines work, and that an objective standard is emerging as to what is good and what isn't. It seems to me that the modelers are superior to the samples, though I know that point is controversial. I read the recent thread on this and it didn't seem to come to a real conclusion. I'm curious though if the relevant companies will respond to this analysis. I know that James works for Kawai so maybe he has an opinion. Pianoteq has been around for quite a while now and I don't understand why the big companies like Yamaha and Korg have yet to move away from sampling. Back in the day I would have thought it was a memory/cpu issue, but at this point my phone has enough memory to run Pianoteq, so it can't be that. Is it just that the big companies have already invested so much in sampling/looping technology that they feel like they can't abandon it?

Ivanosky,

As a current owner of a Roland RD700SX and more importantly, a Korg SV-1, I'd strongly suggest you listen to the AP's from SoundPack 2. The pianos in SP2 are worlds apart from the originals and the often mentioned issue of too shorter sustain is resolved. I absolutely love the Soundpack 2 piano 2A, but much prefer the EPs that came with Soundpack 1. As far as getting the APs to sound equal or better than the RD700NX, I'd think that might be a difficult task, however, the EPs on the SV1 are incredible - so gritty, lots of bark, and oh-so tweakable!

It's worth noting that you don't have to use all the sounds from any given soundpack at the same time. If you enjoy the EP's from SP1 and the AP's from SP2, you can simply install your favourite ones from each soundpack. Thus, making the library of sounds available to you a lot more extensive. This sort of sound replacement is not something that Roland offers without enduring the huge expense of add-on cards.

There are 8 'favourite' buttons on the front panel which give you easy and quick access to any of the installed sounds and you can save all of the FX along with the sound - effectively giving you 8 customized one-touch pre-sets within easy reach.

As is obvious from the front panel knobs, adjusting any affects on the fly is really easy to do during a performance to get the sound just right. I MUCH prefer this over my RD700SX's way of doing things and frankly the newer RD700's aren't much different in that regard. The SV1's tweakability makes it hugely fun to use! Possibly much like Nord owners say about their respective units.

The "piano noises" such as String Resonance / hammer noise and pedal noises are adjustable in volume using the included editing software, however they cannot be adjusted from the front panel of the SV1. To be honest, it's far from being an issue as these tend to be 'set and forget' parameters.

It's worth noting that the SV1 is primarily mono-timbral, however, Korg did listen to a number of us users who wanted "splits" and gave us a patch that has a Bass in the left side of the keyboard and Piano to the right among others.

If you want layered sounds or easily configurable keyboard splits, the Roland's are ahead of the game on that front.

Most importantly, as with ANY musical instrument purchase - trust your own ears. It doesn't matter what the science says or what happens to be technically more superior if you don't enjoy playing it. Get as much hands-on time with the instruments as you can prior to purchase - preferably with your own headphones and with a similar speaker setup to what you intend to use at your place of performance. Graphs and statistics will mean very little if you don't enjoy playing your instrument and can often distract you from the purpose for which it is intended for - making music.

Hope this info helps a little.

Thanks - this is very helpful and exactly the kind of response I've been looking for from an SV owner. If the SP2 AP's are really as much of an improvement as everyone seems to say, I think they are probably good enough for a lousy player like me. I'm going to try to find a store in my area that has loaded up the SP2 sounds into a demo unit. A tall order, but not impossible given where I live.

Certainly shouldn't be a tall order. If they want the sale, they should be prepared to upload the latest Soundpack along with the latest version of the OS.

It's important to make sure the latest OS is loaded as I believe it's a pre-requisite for Soundpack 2.

Also, I'm assuming you've already decided, but if it's going to be your only board, make sure you get the 88key version unless weight and size during travel are an issue.


regards