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#1635786 - 03/07/11 03:38 PM grand soft pedal repair
jmw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 81
Loc: Girard, KS,
Recently discovered the soft pedal on our Bergmann grand at school is not working. We have two performances coming next Sunday, so I took a look- pedal itself functions; I adjusted the rod so it engages the lever, but it just doesn't shift the action over. Feels like maybe the lever is disconnected from the action? Am I on the right track or have I missed something underneath? Do I need to pull the action out to check inside? I looked all over Reblitz and couldn't find what I needed. I HAVE contacted our local technician, but I haven't heard back from him, and I'm afraid he's out of town and I'm going to have to get this going.
Thanks as always!
John
_________________________
Music teacher and beginning Tuner

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#1635820 - 03/07/11 04:08 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]
Larry Buck Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Lowell MA
I am not familiar with the particular brand "Bergmann"

The "soft pedal" or the Una Corda, is generally a very simple lever.

The key frame may be bound up on the key bed. I would loosen the key block screws a little and see if that helps.
Yes, I would remove the key board if I thought I needed to look inside. It is possible a foreign object is jamming things up.

I would relax, Sunday is a long way away in the "Soft Pedal not working" world.
_________________________
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants."
Isaac Newton

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/EJBuckPerformances

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#1635890 - 03/07/11 05:32 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Larry Buck]
jmw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 81
Loc: Girard, KS,
Thanks a lot Mr. Buck! I just know if I have to fix it, it'll take a lot longer than most!

If I remember right, Bergmann is made by a Chinese company that is somehow related to Young Chang. But it's been long enough now I may be all wet on that. We've had good luck with it so far. You may be onto something with the foreign body idea- the people that normally use it are not nearly as careful with it as I would be.
Thanks for taking the time to respond,
John
_________________________
Music teacher and beginning Tuner

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#1635907 - 03/07/11 05:59 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Bergmann is a Young Chang model. When you press the pedal down, do you feel any resistance at all? Just because the pedal rod adjustment is engaging the lever, it still may not be adjusted up enough for the other end of the lever to engage the action and shift it.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1635921 - 03/07/11 06:11 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
You could look down between the cheek blocks and the keyframe to see what the clearance is, it should be tight on the bass side at rest. If it's tight on the treble side, chances are something is between the keyframe and stop.

When you adjusted the rod to engage the lever, just how much did you have to adjust it? If you adjusted it alot, the above could be the problem. Be sure to tell the tech you adjusted the pedal rod, so he can reset it correctly.... or he might be slightly stumped
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1636252 - 03/08/11 01:45 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
When was the piano last tuned?

If you have performances, the piano probably needs to be tuned anyhow. A tech can sort it all out for you.

If there is ever a good time to tune a school piano (or ANY piano), it is before a performance.... trust me.....
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#1636438 - 03/08/11 09:29 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Les Koltvedt]
jmw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 81
Loc: Girard, KS,
@Les- yes I had to adjust it a lot- so I'll let him know, if I don't get it fixed first.

@Supply- it's been since August for sure, so it's definitely time!

Thanks to all- I really appreciate those who take the time to help out us newbies with (sometimes) knuckle-head questions!

John
_________________________
Music teacher and beginning Tuner

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#1637071 - 03/09/11 12:16 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 3453
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Under the keyboard, you usually see a black cast-iron lever, parallel to the keybed, with one end projecting up through it. The pedal moves a rod that moves this lever, and this lever then moves the action.

Is this lever moving? If not, try making the vertical rod longer or shorter until it moves again. Normally, the keys are all the way to the left, and they move to the right when the una corda pedal is down (on 99% of grands).

Possibly the vertical rod is adjusted so that the action is stuck on one side or the other.

Did it begin just after the piano was moved? Occasionally the wrong leg bolt is inserted, and it comes up through the keybed and pins the action on one side or the other.

--Cy--
_________________________
Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Assistant Director, PTG Denver 2015 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org

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#1637189 - 03/09/11 07:22 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Cy Shuster, RPT


Did it begin just after the piano was moved? Occasionally the wrong leg bolt is inserted, and it comes up through the keybed and pins the action on one side or the other.

--Cy--


I HATE that, Cy! It happens every so often, and I just dealt with it a few months ago. Grand piano was moved and screws put in the wrong place, so couldn't slide the action out.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1637252 - 03/09/11 09:48 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT]
jmw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 81
Loc: Girard, KS,
This piano is in our district auditorium, which I don't access regularly, so I don't know when it started. But it hasn't been moved, so that's probably not it.

Yes the lever moves- in fact it's just sort of loose. It will move up towards the keybed and then just stop with no feeling of the inside moving. I'll probably go up and look at it again after school today. Haven't heard from my tech yet- I'm afraid he's out of town cry

Thanks again!
John
_________________________
Music teacher and beginning Tuner

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#1637272 - 03/09/11 10:08 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
Kinda sounds like the keys were shifted and didn't return, for whatever reason.

just my $0.02
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1637305 - 03/09/11 10:38 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Les Koltvedt]
Larry Buck Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Lowell MA
Aaahhh.

I am going to suggest that the key frame is stuck in the "ON" position and is not returning after the pedal is released.

I would remove the key blocks completely and see if that frees it.

Also, remove the action and check things in the key bed.

When re installing the key blocks, tighten the screws incrementally to see if at some point the key frame begins to bind.
_________________________
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants."
Isaac Newton

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/EJBuckPerformances

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#1637309 - 03/09/11 10:44 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Larry Buck]
jmw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 81
Loc: Girard, KS,
I'm thinking we're on the right track now! I'll let you all know how it goes...
John
_________________________
Music teacher and beginning Tuner

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#1637348 - 03/09/11 11:31 AM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Larry Buck]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4263
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Larry Buck

Also, remove the action and check things in the key bed.


Specifically check the spring on the right side; may have pulled the screws out of the cabinet wall.
I just had a YC product where the spring was fractured right at the screw holes that hold the spring in place.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1637587 - 03/09/11 04:26 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
SM Boone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 303
Loc: VA USA
And while you have the action out put a little graphite on the keybed under the rub spots you may or may not see... feel under the action, there will be about 5 or 6 or so metal round things you feel about 1/3 way toward you from the back of the action as is faces you. Those keep the action from binding on the keybed. Many new pianos come without any lubricant under these points at all.....

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#1637775 - 03/09/11 09:02 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: SM Boone]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: SM Boone
And while you have the action out put a little graphite on the keybed under the rub spots.....

No. Don't use graphite - it ends up all over the next tech's hands and clothes, and, in a private ownership situation, on the owner's carpet.

I don't think it is a good idea to tell people to use any lubrication anywhere - there is too much of a chance they will use the the wrong product in the wrong place, incorrectly....

Let the tech tune the piano (which is overdue for a tuning) and figure it out. thumb bah
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#1637843 - 03/09/11 10:45 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: Supply]
SM Boone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 303
Loc: VA USA
well I own a solid block of graphite, ... that's what I use, but I think powder would work, ...

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#1637881 - 03/09/11 11:40 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5372
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: SM Boone
well I own a solid block of graphite, ... that's what I use, but I think powder would work, ...

If "by work" you mean that the powder will more easily transfer to the hands and clothing of the next technician to come along, you're right. Neither is an appropriate lubricant for keybeds and/or keyframes. If you must use something (and you have no Teflon powder available) use a bit of talc. While it won’t do much good—but then, neither does the graphite—at least it won’t make a mess for the next tech to clean up.

(If I sound a little testy about this it is because I’ve followed up after altogether too many technicians who have slopped graphite all over the place instead of actually figuring out the real problem and solving it. These experiences give one the opportunity to make up all kinds of interesting new words.)

ddf


Edited by Del (03/09/11 11:41 PM)
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1637884 - 03/09/11 11:49 PM Re: grand soft pedal repair [Re: jmw]
accordeur Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1248
Loc: Qubec, Canada
I did not want to comment Mr Fandrich, but am happy that you did.

A "block" of graphite!!!

I still keep an old "Stanley" construction grade pencil, a "block" of graphite. It's only use now is to make paper rubbings of bass strings for rescaling!!


Edited by accordeur (03/09/11 11:59 PM)
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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