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We are looking for an upright (no space now for a grand of any size :-( ) Present piano is a slightly wonky 1982 Jonas & Chickering console. We bought it 9 months ago for $250 - have done a ton of work on it - but we can do better.

We have a genius piano tech - who has done great work and after changing a few bass strings with almost no significant improvement, has recommended we abandon our improvement project and purchase something else (from him). Here are our options at the moment:

Baldwin - Hamilton (the real thing) 1983. Results of today's test drive - sounds fine, action is reliable. Needs a little tweaking - which he will do. Very little wear - well maintained) Overall - a standard console.

Chickering circa 1890 - 1893 (2 serial numbers in play... ) Mostly rebuilt sometime in the past 10 years or so. History unknown. Rebuild included all mechanics - hammers, shanks, strings, pins, felts, keys replaced (not ivory). Action was cleaned and regulated. Our tech says he couldn't have rebuilt it better himself - except the person who rebuilt it pushed the tuning pins in too far - so they will eventually have to be replaced with oversized pins. We don't know what impact this will have on tuning - nor when - but can reasonably expect we will need to replace them.

Test drive results: a rich tone (to be expected with so many strings), action nice - but not all even yet and surprisingly shallow for a larger upright (at least 5 feet tall). The sound was not as big as I had anticipated... The cabinet is in fantastic condition.

Steinway: a 1943 console - in the process of being completely restored. Soundboard is in great shape, harp - beautiful. The case is mahogany - mostly sanded. Everything else is out (except strings - including the wartime steel bass string octave) which we would have replaced). We can have it in 6-8 weeks....or so he says....

Money: The tech is willing to credit us everything we've spent on the Chickering. The resulting purchase prices are as follows:
Baldwin or Chickering 1K,
Steinway 2.5 - 3K with new strings.
Includes delivery and 2 year warranty and tuning.

Our concern
While we recognize the talents of our tech, he is somewhat unreliable - perhaps due to his lifestyle. If we choose the Steinway restoration, do you have any recommendations to ensure the project is completed? We think some kind of contract might help - but are not sure what to include.

Our questions:
Would you choose any one of these 3 - and why?
If not, would you recommend some other option?

Thank you in advance - this is a fantastic site!

Interesting!

I'm always good for a few opinions, but first I have a couple of questions --

1)What makes your tech a "genius"?
2) Why did he think changing strings would help your piano? and
3) why didn't they, after all?
4) how much have you spent on the Chickering - (i.e. how much work is a "ton of work", in $$ terms) - $500? So if you bought a $1,000 piano from him today, he'd only charge you $500? (or did he sell it to you in the first place, in which case he'd credit you $750? Hard to go wrong with a deal like that...)
5) Have you looked around at other pianos? New ones? Used verticals, via dealers, or craigslist, or whatever.
6) Do you have a budget? What is it?

Aries boy,

Thanks for the reply. In answer to your questions:

1. He's a genius (or I can say extremely talented if that sounds better) because he has worked miracles for others we know - and was quickly and ingeniously able to undo the hack job our previous tech had done. We also knew his father & his work - who trained his son - and he was widely recognized as the best tech in our state. Our piano had many more problems than we had realized, and he's been absolutely expert in identifying and fixing them. Alas, he can not fix the basic problem we have - we don't like the sound of the piano and it can not be further improved.

2 & 3 Changing the strings was a last resort. The bass strings had oxidized substantially. Despite our efforts of cleaning them (we decided it couldn't hurt so they were brushed, then we tried the loosen-then play-technique ourselves), they still sounded as if muffled. We asked him to change them - but instead of spending our money - he brought a few strings and changed them to see if it resulted in a change in tone. It did not - or not substantially. Why not? We are not sure. The action is fine, the hammers have all been replaced. It appears the soundboard is fine. It seems to be a character of the piano.

4. We've spent nearly $1500 on the piano since purchasing it. That includes the money we spent on the first tech's hack job :-( No - we did not buy the piano from him. The prices I gave would be the price we would pay him, so add $1500 for the total purchase price.

5. Yes, we've looked at many - and I am a classical singer so I have an opportunity to play many pianos - and to hear others fantastic instruments played well. However, we are not in a position to buy the piano my heart and voice desire at the moment. These are our current options - at least the ones that appeal to us the most right now.

6. Our budget is about what we've discussed here - a max of 3K (assuming the 1500 'credit' which would be a total cost of 4.5K). It is not likely we can get our money out of the current piano if we sell it ourselves, so making a deal as I've described seems our best bet.

We'd love to hear your opinion of the 3 pianos we are considering. This has been a learning experience, to say the least! Thanks again for taking the time to respond!!!!

OK -- I hope you get replies from the many many people on this forum far more knowledgeable than I am, but -- based on what you've shared -- here are the views of a no-nothing intermediate player with a better piano than he deserves and more confidence than he's entitled to, after a few glasses of wine on a Saturday night --

Sunk costs are sunk. Forget whatever you've spent. The punchline is you can spend $1,000 (a modest sum) for a piano you can hear, see, touch and smell today -- or you can hope this guy finishes the Steinway in a reasonable timeframe, and spend up to $3,000 for an instrument that will take a few months (if you're lucky) before you can play and hear it and then has to be broken in etc.

The Steinway's out of the running. Fuhgeddaboudit.

The good news is you know something about the guy and his family, and you have friends who've used him so there's a "web of reputation and expectation" that serves as some sort of safety net (let's hope).

Go for the antique Chickering. It's entitled to one rebuild, and it sounds like it got that pretty recently, and the guy you respect says the work is good (except for the tuning pins - how did that happen? we'll never know.) And it's easy on the eyes.

But -

1) get another opinion (from another tech) on what kind of hassle the tuning pin situation represents re maintaining it, and when you'll have to re-pin it and what cost. (and while s/he is in there, get another opinion overall on the quality of the re-build)
2) ditto on why the bass may seem so weak and whether anything can be done about it
3) Get all the tweaks and adjustments done first
4) Does he take the current piano away for no charge when he brings the Chickering? Bad pianos seldom walk out of your life so easily - this is worth something!

For $1,000? To me, it seems like the best option.

These opinions are free - swallow them with the requisite spoonfuls of salt.

And good luck!

One thing I wouldn't do is buy the Steinway before it is finished. It might be a great piano, many Steinways are, but it might also be lackluster, many Steinways are. Maybe you could work a deal with him to give you credit for one of the other pianos to buy the Steinway if you like it when it's done. In other words, have the first right of refusal and use the other piano as a sort of loaner/downpayment type of thing.

I get that your tech has integrity. He's willing to credit you for all the work he's done on your piano. It seems you believe your budget is at most $3K. With that you hope to buy a restored used old klunker or maybe an almost 3 decade old Baldwin. For $3K you can buy a new Chinese upright which will be at least as good as anything you've presented. If you reconsider and stretch that budget a bit you'll find some very nice uprights in the $5K range.

It seems the piano you have has a decent action because it's been regulated and refurbished, but it sounds dead. That's probably because the sound board is dead (not uncommon in 100 year old pianos). It may look fine, but the internal fibers have dealt with 100 years+ of dry winters and humid summers and that takes a toll on the internal structure of the wood. So that's why your piano sounds dead and that's probably also why the Chickering didn't sound as big as you thought it should.

My suggestion is play the piano you have for another year "as is." Stop trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Save your money and buy a new piano in a year.

I'd indicate an interest in the Steinway, maybe a token (refundable) deposit. But don't make a final commitment until it's finished. It could turn out fine or be a big disappointment. If the former, probably a good deal considering his generous offer.

Thank you Ariesboy, pianolance, Steve & Bart -

Your advice has been very helpful!

We are probably going with the Baldwin - and will option the Steinway when it is finished and if we like the way it turns out. The baldwin seems stable and needs no work that we know of besides a tuning and clean-up.

Thank you again for taking the time to reply!