I've been able to reproduce all of the issues, and I'd be surprised if it isn't a systematic issue in every RD-700NX.

The layered strings dropping out with the pedal down and several notes played repeatedly can be made a bit better if you up the voice reserve for the string layer.

The piano decay cutoff issue I've only heard clearly when playing an audio file. WAV files cause it, MP3 files are worse. I don't think the pedal makes any difference.

That said, if you don't play super fast repetitions over strings or audio files, and if you couldn't reproduce it yourself by actually playing the NX, then I really doubt you'll notice anything. I don't like knowing this issue exists in the NX, and it must really be a pain for people who want to use it in certain ways that it's capabilities would suggest are possible (and my sympathy goes out to them), but for most people it will be a non-issue.

I almost got around to making a MIDI file to test this today but ran out of time. Perhaps over the weekend.

This I understand. If you think about it, each voice is probably comprised of two tones (stereo), so 128 poly is really 64 simultaneous keys. Layering with strings probably makes each note 4 tones, reducing poly to (128/4 = 32) 32 keys. With sustain on, and the longer decay time for strings, the more tones playing at a time. With rapid playing, the envelope for polyphony is maxed.

As for the cutoff issues over playback, I didn't test that.

Sorry for any confusion, this is the only thing I was trying to reproduce. My last post was referring to testing this issue. I didn't do anything with the string test so I can't comment. :-/

And I didn't use audio playback. That's not a feature I'll probably ever use, and I couldn't tell from all the posts if it only happened when using playback or not. So for those who would use playback, I would test the board first. For those only using the piano patches with no other layers or audio playback, in my test it performed perfectly in everything I threw at it.

Hey everyone.
I am new to the forum and this thread, which I have been monitoring for a while. I have purchased a RD700NX, having previously owned a GXF.

The GXF (or RD700GX1) has 17 supernatural acoustic pianos (SN01-SN17)...
The NX has 35 supernatural acoustic pianos (3 Concert, 3 Studio and 29 Brilliant, which seems slightly unbalanced?!)

Does anybody know how many actual sampled pianos (not patches) there are on each instrument?! I would be interested to know if the NX has more than the GXF, allowing you more freedom, potential and creativity to create new patches, and giving you more for your money. By the way, I am assuming that these 17 or 35 sounds are patches: I could be wrong. Does anyone know?

I was a fan of SN04 on the GXF. Which piano on the NX is closest, or what parameter settings can most closely replicate it?

Also, I thought it might be a good idea to start collating lists of NX users' suggested preferences/parameter settings/configurations for optimized acoustic piano sounds. Does anybody have any suggestions, as the presets probably aren't as good as they could be.

Cheers guys.

I'm 99% sure there are only 3 basic SN APs in the NX.


I've never owned a GXF, but I believe others have mentioned that there is perhaps one more SN piano in it than in the NX. And the way the universe works your favorite is probably the one they decided not to put in the NX.

Hi all.

I am also new to this forum, new in that I am finally taking an active part. I have been following you all closely for many months now and feel like I have come to know and respect the opinions and abilities of many of the regular contributors to this forum.


I have just purchased a RD700nx only a few days ago and am growing to love it more each day. I understand what some of you have said about the instrument being perfect yet maybe a bit sterile, I also own a Korg SV1, IMO a seriously undervalued board, but as I said the NX is definitely growing on me. As a player who plays as a soloist or with a singer the cutting through the mix isn't a concern for me also playing in my usual fashion I haven't noticed any note stealing.

My reason for the NX over others is that I also compose and arrange so the full canvas of sounds that it offers is very important to me. I had a RD700 for many years with extra cards but the piano and electric piano sounds were always unsatisfactory to me.

Now here is my question for any NX owners out there. The Data list states that there are just under 1000 tones in the NX including drum sets. I have noticed some of these tones as layered tones in the Live Sets but how do I access them? The NX seems to either work in Live Set mode or User Mode and there is nothing I can see in the manual to help me with this, I'm sure I am missing something, but what?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Mark

Hi Mark,
I was wondering the same thing a few hours ago! I would like to be able to play from the tone list rather than the Live Set List, but there doesn't seem to be a dedicated mode, as there usually is on workstation/synths.

I was also wondering why the manual from the NX is half the size (literally) of the manual for the GX. It doesn't seem as comprehensive.

How are you finding the action?

Hi SuperSonicScotty.

The manual online is no different to the printed one so no help there. It must be possible to access the Tone List sounds or they wouldn't have listed which keys trigger which drums for the drum sets.

I think I adapt fairly quickly to whatever action I play barring a non weighted one. I'm getting to really like it, it is efficient and firm if not a little hard at the bottom. I find the fake ivory key tops a little different as it feels very dry to my fingers, I guess I'm more use to plastic key tops in both digital and acoustic pianos.

I hope someone comes up with an answer for both of us.

Cheers

Mark

I agree that the basic voices ("tones") are somewhat hidden in the NX; they exist only inside of preset layers. Anyway:

1. Press the "LAYER EDIT" button under the screen.
2. Press the left arrow key until you are on the "Tone" screen.
3. Press the down arrow key so that the line that starts with "UP2" is highlighted.
4. Press the layer button that is blinking so that it is solidly lit. Shove its slider all the way up. If any other layer buttons are lit, press them so that they are unlit.
5. Use the scroll wheel to scroll through the sounds.

Thanks Dewster, as you say rather hidden but easy once you know how. Thanks also for all the analytical information you've been supplying over the months. I usually go by the sound I hear and the vibe I get when playing an instrument but I, like you am not a fan of a looped sound, part of the reason I went for the SN sounds.

Thanks again.

Mark

Thanks Dewster, as you say rather hidden but easy once you know. Thanks also for all the analytical information you've been supplying this forum over the many months I've been reading it. Like you I'm not a fan of a looped sound, one of the reasons I went for the SN sounds.

Thanks Again.

Sorry about the double entry, thought I lost the first one.

Newby mistake.

...hey Mark,

Nice to see another Kiwi on the forums! Welcome aboard!

Thanks Siriosys.

You've got a similar setup of DPs as I have. Great minds eh...

No worries, however, I'm actually going to be getting rid of the SV-1 I think. I can't stand the spongey action..... looking very seriously at either an RD700NX / NP88 or waiting it out for the Stage2.

Sorry to hear that. I don't mind the action at all, in fact for playing electronic sounding instruments, EPs, Clavs or Organs, I would probably prefer it to the NX action. What I don't like about the SV1 action is that I have a few notes that are clacky or rattley. This can be sorted by taking it in for a lube but I've done that once before already. I don't know what Nord offers in EP sounds but the Korg eats the Roland in that department. Sorry if this is a bit off the topic of this thread.

....yeah, I had exactly the same problem which is another reason why I'm thinking of getting rid of it. Mine came back from "repair" without the bottom being screwed back in too.........nearly pushed the keybed through the bottom of the piano once it was up on my stand!........... oh, and the problem has come back as well.

I'd def agree about the SV1 eating the Roland for EP's though...... in a different league

.....now back on topic.....lol

The RD-700NX in Purgatory

Today I lugged the RD-700NX down to the PC and ran MIDI through it for various reasons. At one point I decided to run the Purgatory Creek DP Shootout MIDI file through it.

This was my first experience with the WAV recorder on the NX. It works well, producing a pretty hot signal with no clipping and a very low noise floor. It seems to apply some kind of normalization when storing the file, or perhaps it's a brick wall mastering type thing.

I noticed that the compressor affects the sound even when it is turned all the way down, so I turned it, as well as the other in-line effects, off with the dedicated button (I should have done this for the DPBSD testing). In the menus I found another in-line EQ enabled with the Concert voice, so I disabled it as well (I think it sounds better disabled). The lid default is 5, opening it a bit more doesn't change the tone too much, though it does brighten it up some. I left the lid at 5 for the Brilliant because it is already too bright and twangy (IMO).

I sequenced these in Sonar, recorded to 16 bit WAV on the NX, and converted to MP3 in Audition, no normalization or anything like that applied.

http://www.mediafire.com/?28x7i2sruysfq24 - Concert 100%
http://www.mediafire.com/?envngbei19d8m44 - Concert 75%
http://www.mediafire.com/?61yuf5x2dkrui6c - Studio 100%
http://www.mediafire.com/?za9pvpx3ad3guvt - Studio 75%
http://www.mediafire.com/?l4zwj0dhqabgqt1 - Brilliant 100%
http://www.mediafire.com/?89x8scxc19a53zz - Brilliant 75%

Here are the settings I used:

All:
Panel EQ: Off (w/ button)
Panel Reverb: Off (w/ button)
Panel Chorus: Off (w/ button)
Panel Compressor: Off (w/ button)
Sound Focus: Off (w/ button)

Concert:
Lid: Set to 7
Menu EQ: Off

Studio:
Lid: Set to 7

Brilliant:
No other setting changes

The average velocities in the Purgatory Creek file are way too high, it makes the Brilliant sound like a pretty bad. A shame really that their file velocities are so off, it's very difficult to use their recordings to compare anything to anything like that. The Studio can really take a pounding without sounding too bad, but the Brilliant goes over the top. I scaled the velocities 75% in Sonar and did a second recording of all three so you can hear them being played with some semblance of normality.

Let me know what you think!

Luisdent on the NX!

Over on this thread I offered to render luisdent's composition "After The Rain Has Fallen" on our RD-700NX. I used the same settings as in my previous post (all effects off) and captured the WAV files directly with the NX recording feature. Sequenced with Sonar, MP3 conversion with Audition:

http://www.mediafire.com/?v7cw3b8cchw4ypo - Concert
http://www.mediafire.com/?axryhx4251q9cgp - Studio
http://www.mediafire.com/?0gr1iams2vkxa8q - Brilliant

I like the intimate sound of the Concert with lighter notes, but the Studio sounds a little more open and it handles higher velocities without getting too twangy. The Brilliant isn't so brilliant IMO, but sounds OK played more softly. I hear a faint "springy" sound in the background of all the pianos that I don't like - it seems to be part of the samples or whatever technology they are using to construct the base voices.

IMO the NX is right at the edge of realistic enough to record solo.

Does anyone have any suggestions for an amplification solution for optimized sound from the RD700NX?

The only dedicated solution for digital pianos/synths seems to be nearfield studio monitors, but they are pricey and all their science and technology seems wasted on the simple task of piano playback, when they are designed for mixing and accuracy. As I want something that flatters the sound, I did consider buying an audiophile hifi system from somewhere like richer sounds, as if I was listening to a classical piano CD, this would be the ideal solution. I am not sure about power handling capabilities though, as I do not know how hot the signal would be from a stage piano for hifi gear. If I do have to get studio monitors to make use of the XLR outputs (which some people have said sounds much better than the jack outputs), are there any monitors that would be suitable for piano playback and would showcase the NX sounds?

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Small note, the full name is "after the rain has fallen". I just abbreviated for the midi file. :-) oops.

I agree completely with dewster on all these points. Brilliant isn't for me. The studio is my favorite. The concert is very nice too. I would also consider it right on the edge of solo album quality. It has all the right properties, good tone, realistic sampled sound, excellent dynamic capabilities, etc. The dynamics are probably from the fact that it isn't a 100% sampled piano. That is also why I think it has a slightly less realistic sound than the best sampled piano libraries.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It has an excellent sound, just not as realistic "forensically". This is probably the best non-100% sampled piano I've ever heard though. And I can say this, the instrument is amazing to play. With good volume on some nice monitors the piano sounds feel excellent to me.

Oops, sorry luisdent, I should have checked with you on that first. Fixed and noted.

Thanks for giving me the chance to put the NX through its paces with your nice piano piece!

FYI you can freely edit / delete any of your own posts here.

For the NX I think you want a flat response, either from nearfield monitors or good hi-fi speakers. If you don't need rip-roaring volume I wonder if a small PA sub coupled to some good bookshelf satellite speakers might do the job. With a sub the sats wouldn't need to be ported, nor would they need large woofers - 6" should be plenty for decent playing volume in a normal sized room.

You only need the XLR outs if you are running the wires over longer distances (like to a mixer out in the audience). For shorter runs the 1/4" outs should work fine.

Someone really should make a high quality speaker / amp system aimed at DPs for home use and intimate / background gig settings.

I have a set of infinity alpha 50 speakers (the whole surround set actually) I got back in 2002. These are by no means inexpensive (msrp of about $800 each back then), especially if you take into account the amplifier, but they reproduce nuances to an amazing level. Everyone that hears my setup, including myself is amazed at things they didn't know existed in songs they were already familiar with.

Listening to piano on these is one of my favorite things to do. I chose infinity because they are very good at making home speakers that have flat accurate response (no "colored" sound). The alphas are good enough on their own without a sub, because they have two 8" drivers, a 5 1/4" driver and a 1" driver all in one tower speaker. But you could possibly go with the primus model, although I haven't heard them personally. They are similar to the alphas but a bit smaller in every respect, so you might want a sub with those.

If you don't want to spend that much (you need an amplifier and cables too), for home only use, I would recommend studio monitors. I have a pair of alesis m1 active mkII bi-amp studio monitors that are excellent http://www.alesis.com/m1activemkii . They are about $300 a pair now (used to be $400). But you don't need to buy an amplifier because they are powered themselves. And you only need two 1/4" or xlr connectors. This saves some money. You could buy a home amplifier and speakers with a sub, but for $400 they won't sound as close to the accurate reproduction of a piano as the monitors.

You still might want a sub with monitors like the alesis, although I haven't yet felt the need for one myself and I record solo piano. They have pretty good low frequency handling if you're not into a lot of "sub" bass.

I used to sell home audio products as my job for a few years and learned a lot. First, everything is marked up insanely high. Ha. Second, you don't always need to spend a lot. There is a strange price curve. Cheap stuff if usually very bad. I would stay away from any speakers that are so cheap they seem to good to be true. When you get into the mid price range things go up in quality very fast. If you spend a few hundred dollars you'll get much better quality. Spend another few hundred and maybe 25% more quality. It seems (to me anyway) that after that initial jump to good quality, the more you spend the smaller the difference. I've heard $2000 speakers that were very close in quality to my $800 speakers, and then $5000 speakers that weren't much better than the last. Better, but not by much. Things also tend to get smaller and have better "design" at higher prices.

Anyway, to stay on topic. I really do think powered studio monitors would be the best bang for your buck and definitely the easiest. You can probably find an amplifier with two mid sized speakers and a sub, but you'll spend at least a few hundred dollars and you'll need to setup the amp, run speakers wires and run audio cables. Not too bad, but with the monitors you just plug them direct to the keyboard with xlr or 1/4". They are also good if you need to move them or possibly use them in a jam somewhere. You can get models with protective grills, but typically they come exposed, so the only downside is that.

Lastly, don't forget a nice set of headphones. The AKG K 240 mkII series are decent for the price (around $200) and comfortable. And they are portable! :-) But they won't give you as low of a piano bass response like a nice speaker.

For home use, monitor speakers are probably the best. I have a pair of JBL Control 2 professional near field monitors. These are mini sized monitors with a clean true sound with surprising depth to the bass for their size. Relatively inexpensive, I think the US price is around $200.00 a pair. With the new generation DPs that are around now I would stay away from keyboard amps, they don't them justice.

To all of you out there thinking about getting a 700NX and are worried about the issues that have been raised I say don't be. I got an NX the other day, spent all weekend on it and can't fault it. It's probably been said before but the flexibility with the SN sounds to taylor it to how you want them to sound is amazing. Even the Rhodes and Wurly sounds can be improved no end. (not to SV1 standard though) Plus you have all the extras - the instrumental and synth sounds are very impressive. And then there's the action... What's not to like.
Well that's my rant for the evening.

......the Weight

True...
I suppose it's a little long as well.

Many thanks for your replies dewster, luisdent and marknz.

Why is a flat response desirable for speakers when playing piano, but a coloured response is desirable when listening to an album of piano music? I have never understood that. If I can get one pair of speakers/monitors that will be good for both listening to CDs and playing piano, I will be very happy.

So if I am going down the monitors road, what do you think of adams, genelecs, dynaudios? I also noticed that focals have been winning awards over the last couple of years. KRK Rokit 8 seems to be the cheapest of the "good enough" range at around £400 a pair, but are they good enough do you think? A7's are around £600 a pair. BM5a's are around £800 a pair. Is it still the general consensus that actives are better than passives?

Cheers guys.