Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1644672 - 03/20/11 12:33 PM Books on composing and harmony
haakonsb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Norway
Hi,

I was wondering if any of you know of any good theory books about composing,Composing theqniques, harmony, counterpoint and such.

I have heard of

Twentieth-Century Harmony by Vincent Persichetti

Musical composition By Reginald Smith Brindle

Harmony by Walter Piston

Counterpoint‎ by Knud Jeppese

Are these any good? or do you know of anything bether?

A good book on orchestration would also bee neat, I have heard that Rimsky-Korsakov has a good one, or do you know of something bether?

Thanks!

Top
Piano & Music Acc. / Sheet Music


Sheet Music Plus Homepage
#1644805 - 03/20/11 05:48 PM Re: Books on composing and harmony [Re: haakonsb]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5261
Loc: Europe
You need to realize that you're listing books that deal with not only a variety of subjects but also a variety of different eras. Piston's harmony is mostly about classical harmony and the counterpoint of Knud deals with 16th century music (unless you are talking about different books that I know of). The Korsakov orchestration, while great (and can be found for free in NSS forums) is a bit 'outdated' by todays standards. I don't know the Brindle book, but the Persichetti book is excellent for more 'contemporary' (up to the middle of the 20th century anyhow) techniques.

Great part in learning about composition is:
a. getting to know the various compositional techniques (learning)
b. Getting to spot them on scores (analysis)
c. Getting to use them (composing)
amongst other things.
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1644822 - 03/20/11 06:32 PM Re: Books on composing and harmony [Re: Nikolas]
haakonsb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Nikolas


Great part in learning about composition is:
a. getting to know the various compositional techniques (learning)
b. Getting to spot them on scores (analysis)
c. Getting to use them (composing)
amongst other things.


Do you know any books that can help me with the points you have mentiond above. I know that listening to and playing gives me a lot, but i would like to go deeper into the theory stuff to, and I need help!

Top
#1645045 - 03/21/11 03:20 AM Re: Books on composing and harmony [Re: haakonsb]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5261
Loc: Europe
Frankly I'm not too sure about analysis, etc.

For starters it all boils down to what you personally know. If you know harmony you could analyse some Chopin, some Beethoven, both harmonically and melodically and form wise. We keep talking about the sonata form, but what is it? Check wiki (not an academic tool really, but excellent for what it is), and try to see what is going on in Mozart or Beethoven or Haydn sonatas. Where's the first theme, where the second, etc...

In all, when you end up, after an excersize in a result (output), a score, a text, a midi file, whatever, you usually need someone to check if you're right or wrong (in the case of analysis and strict rules, cause in composition there is no 'right' or 'wrong'). It's one thing to learn music theory (the basics) from the Internet and books and a little orchestration, but unless you have someone with experience by your side, things are going to get more difficult as you move further into the depths of musical knowledge.

So start ahead (if I'm assuming correctly your level of understanding music (since you mentioned Piston and Knud). Grab an early Beethoven Sonata or a Mozart/Haydn one and try to see what tonality it's in. Then move to see what is the main theme, if there is (there is...) a second theme, where does it enter. Is it in the same tonality? Then try to understand the underlying harmonic progression. For example the 6th Beethoven Sonata starts with some chords in both hands. Goes from F to C7 (so from I to V, because we are in F major tonality), then puts a little F7 (with Eb) and goes even further into the Bb (IV) and so on...

If you find the above too hard go fruther back into smaller works, and earlier times (still classic period though). If you find them too easy move ahead in time and see what you can do with Chopin and his expanded harmonic vocabulary. And then try Debussy if this is too easy as well.

The above are some ideas, based on pure assumption on someone I don't know, so take them with more than a pinch of salt. I could be dead wrong to assume what you know or don't know.

The other idea would be to list what you do know and don't know (think you don't know anyhow), the books you HAVE read, and the works you HAVE written. This would give me and the others a very definite idea on where you could move next to.

______________________

Just in case you don't know it: www.imslp.org . The definite collection of FREE (legally free) scores. In PDF format and there's also a printing facility there I think. smile
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1646282 - 03/23/11 03:19 AM Re: Books on composing and harmony [Re: haakonsb]
AdlerAugen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 200
Loc: Hawaii
A lot depends on your current knowledge of theory; a common textbook might be Tonal Harmony (with an introduction to twentieth century music) by Stefan Kostka. Some others may include The Shaping of Musical Elements by Armand Russell and Allen Trubitt, and Harmonic Practice in Tonal Music by Robert Gauldin.

For more somewhat more advanced reading you may be interested in Counterpoint by Kent Kennan, Modal and Tonal Counterpoint: From Josquin to Stravinsky by Harold Owen, Form in Music by Wallace Berry, and others such as The Technique of Orchestration by Kent Kennan and Donald Grantham.

The list goes on, but these are just a few books I've had access to or perused/ studied from at varying points. You can also find readings in various journals such as the College Music Symposium.
_________________________
-Piano Instructor since 2008-

Top
#1646586 - 03/23/11 02:45 PM Re: Books on composing and harmony [Re: haakonsb]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2737
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
For orchestration Samuel Adler's book is one of the standards. Be sure to get the accompanying CDs. It's not cheap, but well worth it.

Top
#1647058 - 03/24/11 08:45 AM Re: Books on composing and harmony [Re: haakonsb]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Hi

Persichetti's book really deals _only_ with 20th-century harmony. I'd suggest it won't make much sense unless you have a good grounding in pre-20th century stuff. And in my view it's pretty hard going even then.

Piston's books on harmony and counterpoint are decent primers for music up to about the mid-19th century. George Pratt's 'Dynamics of harmoney' covers the same sort of ground, but perhaps has a slightly more modern outlook.

The chromatic techiques of the 19th century don't seem to be covered very well by anybody. 'The Oxford Harmony (II)' deals with this stuff, but it's hard to get now and, boy, is it dull.

In my view, the best general general overview of compositional techniques up until the 20th century is Schoenberg's 'Fundamentals of Musical Composition', but I appreciate that it's not everybody's cup of tea.

Just my $0.02, of course.

Best wishes
Kevin

Top
#1648746 - 03/27/11 07:08 AM Re: Books on composing and harmony [Re: haakonsb]
haakonsb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Norway
My harmonic knowledge is pretty basic, an mostly based on my studieng of all the major and minor scales finding the relation between the chords "C,F,G in c-major and so on"

i'm pretty new to composition, and I have not read any books on the field, but i have analysed some work in the way Nicolas sayes, but not as detailed perhaps, I feel that learning and listening, is a good way to learn about composing and i'm working on a sonata and a waltz, maby I should just post them here on the tread when I have fished them to give you a bether idea of wath I know.

I guess i should also get a book on basic harmonic progresion or somthing. Pleas sugest!

Top
#1648969 - 03/27/11 02:16 PM Re: Books on composing and harmony [Re: haakonsb]
JonnyJohn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 149
Loc: New Zealand
Hmm.
I think step by step is best...classical music is a bit hard to write..

you should familiarize yourself with some pop songs that you like , learn the simple chords and harmnic progressions before doing the hard things,..

oops sprry for spelling mistake typing and eating an apple with the other ha\nd hheh
_________________________
Jon's Original Compositions

Top
#1649325 - 03/28/11 05:15 AM Re: Books on composing and harmony [Re: haakonsb]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: haakonsb

I guess i should also get a book on basic harmonic progresion or somthing. Pleas sugest!


Anna Butterworth's "Harmony in practice" is very popular, and comparatively easy to read.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai Console
by landorrano
32 minutes 6 seconds ago
Kawai VPC1 - What do I need to start?
by Gerardo Melara
47 minutes 44 seconds ago
When interpretation varies greatly?
by 3times2
Today at 01:13 PM
Official: Fryderyk Chopin died of TB!
by bennevis
Today at 12:06 PM
Teacher wants me to play a "loud" piece too. (suggestions?)
by Tides
Today at 11:47 AM
Who's Online
145 registered (ajames, accordeur, acdyer, AEMontoya, Adypiano, 45 invisible), 1492 Guests and 20 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76231 Members
42 Forums
157582 Topics
2314703 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission