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#1645027 - 03/21/11 01:40 AM Quick question about the Kawai MP10
jscomposer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 537
Loc: The Boogie Down
Does it pass my test? grin

Depress the sustain pedal and strike a note or chord. Lift off the keys while holding the sustain pedal. The notes will sustain, of course, along with sympathetic resonance. Now, while still holding down the sustain pedal, depress the same keys but slowly enough so that no new notes are sounded. While holding down the notes, take your foot off the sustain pedal.

On a real piano the notes still sustain, minus the sympathetic resonance of the other strings which are now dampened. But on most digital pianos--and ALL Kawais I've tried--the notes are cut off as soon as you lift off the sustain pedal. Roland finally got it right with their new RD-700NX and FP-7F, though I neglected to listen to whether the sympathetic resonance was cut off (as it should be). I'll have to go back and try. But they don't yet have an MP10 for me to compare.

(I know it's an arcane technique, but I do use it.)
_________________________
Joshua Seth plays Joshua Seth

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#1645201 - 03/21/11 12:38 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: jscomposer]
AldoEsplay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 69
Nope. Notes are cut off. All you hear is the sympathetic resonance of the sympathetic resonance if you understand what I mean.

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#1645243 - 03/21/11 01:27 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: jscomposer]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: jscomposer
Does it pass my test? grin
...depress the same keys but slowly enough so that no new notes are sounded.


Do any of the Kawai instruments do this? I seem to remember there being some patent issues that didn't allow this functionality to be offered.

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#1645245 - 03/21/11 01:32 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: jscomposer]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Interesting. Just tried it on Roland FP-7F. Note still sounds but sympathetic resonance cuts off.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1645248 - 03/21/11 01:37 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: EssBrace]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Interesting. Just tried it on Roland FP-7F. Note still sounds but sympathetic resonance cuts off.

Steve, when I get home, I'm gonna try this on the NP88, and see what happens. I'll let you know what I find. Nord really touts their sting/sympathetic resonance modeling (for good reason), so I'm wondering if this will happen with the NP88.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1645260 - 03/21/11 01:56 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
My GEM passes this test, the Kawai MP5 does not. Haven't tried it on the FP4 yet (I doubt it will pass).
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1645297 - 03/21/11 03:09 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: EssBrace]
jscomposer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 537
Loc: The Boogie Down
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Interesting. Just tried it on Roland FP-7F. Note still sounds but sympathetic resonance cuts off.


That's good! That's what's supposed to happen.

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Do any of the Kawai instruments do this? I seem to remember there being some patent issues that didn't allow this functionality to be offered.


That's what Kawai told me when I asked them a few years ago. I have a hard time believing it. How can you possibly patent something like MIDI velocities 1-7 = no new note??? I'd wanna confirm that with Yamaha.
_________________________
Joshua Seth plays Joshua Seth

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#1645306 - 03/21/11 03:29 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: jscomposer]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
I just walked into our conference room where we've got a 6'7" grand piano set up and tried this, and there is no change whatsoever. By pressing down the sustain, playing chords, the sustain naturally makes them ring out, just as if you were to physically hold the keys down, so when re-striking the same chords softly without creating new sounds again, and releasing the sustain, the result is the same. Those notes still ring out. I think I tried this on my RD-700GXF, and it worked like a real acoustic. I'll be curious to try it on the NP88.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1645316 - 03/21/11 03:43 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9008
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Do any of the Kawai instruments do this? I seem to remember there being some patent issues that didn't allow this functionality to be offered.


As noted on another thread, but perhaps worth repeating here:
The MP10 allows silent key-on, other Kawai DPs (currently) do not.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1645345 - 03/21/11 05:02 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: Kawai James]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Do any of the Kawai instruments do this? I seem to remember there being some patent issues that didn't allow this functionality to be offered.


As noted on another thread, but perhaps worth repeating here:
The MP10 allows silent key-on, other Kawai DPs (currently) do not.


That's nice, but I still have difficulties to understand why it's an issue to just implement this on e.g. the CA63, with a firmware update. It's a no brainer...

Both features (silent key pressing and releasing pedal with slowly pressed keys) should be updated in a future firmware update.
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1645365 - 03/21/11 05:27 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: Kawai James]
jscomposer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 537
Loc: The Boogie Down
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
As noted on another thread, but perhaps worth repeating here:
The MP10 allows silent key-on, other Kawai DPs (currently) do not.

Cheers,
James
x


The manual indicates otherwise. See the graphs on page 41. At best, there's no new sound at MIDI velocity 0. But that's pretty useless. Can the curve be adjusted so that it starts a bit over to the right? I.e., Sound Volume = 0 and Keyboard Pressure = 8 (for example)

If not, I can't see how it allows for silent on.
_________________________
Joshua Seth plays Joshua Seth

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#1645460 - 03/21/11 08:05 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: jscomposer]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9008
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
mucci, have patience.

jscomposer, those graphs are to illustrate the functionality of the 'Dynamics' parameter, which is used to adjust/tweak the responsiveness of the specified Touch Curve. However, to answer your question, no, I do not believe it is possible to set the exact velocity at which the note sounds.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1645486 - 03/21/11 09:09 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: jscomposer]
dewar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 139
huh I never would have thought to test a digital for that in a store. Good tip.

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#1645526 - 03/21/11 10:45 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: jscomposer]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: jscomposer
That's what Kawai told me when I asked them a few years ago. I have a hard time believing it. How can you possibly patent something like MIDI velocities 1-7 = no new note??? I'd wanna confirm that with Yamaha.

I've neither seen nor heard any proof one way or the other, but I can believe it.

These days you can patent a ham sandwich. You can probably patent how you spread the mustard on said ham sandwich.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1645545 - 03/21/11 11:21 PM Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 [Re: dewster]
puff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 221
Loc: oxford UK

Some Australian has recently patented the Wheel. No Joke.

I actually have the original patent (on velum with massive wax seal in its own zink box)for 'central heating' (The Thermosyphon) taken out by Thomas Fowler in 1828.
It was ripped of by everyone and thier auntie at the time and so he neve patenting his calculating machine. Which was a shame as we may have had the computer a few decades earlier and thus no Bill Gates!

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