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#1644785 - 03/20/11 05:11 PM Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP)
sim871 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 6
Greetings,

I am looking to purchase a DP primarily for home use. The feature/area I am most concerned about is the action and size. The closer to a real piano the better. I suspect that I will be happy with the sound from any of the models I am looking at given the price range. I have kinda been looking at the following models; Modus F01, CP-5, higher end CLPs 308, 380. I would have thrown in the V-piano or RD700nx but the issues with polyphony and key wear and most importantly the lack of any meaningful response from Roland have ruled them out. BTW I live in Bermuda where there is high humidity and it is expensive to ship a DP back and forth to the US. I will have to purchase the DP based on my research as there are no DP retailers with the models I am considering.

Just from reading I am leaning towards the CP5 based on price and feature set but I am open to suggestions.


A couple of Qs:
Do the CP1 and CP5 have the exact same action?

Would I be able to run the CP5 direct into monitors (KRK VXT8s or HSM 80s)?

How would you compare the F01 to the CP5 in terms of action? Is either considerably better (heavier)?

Is the action on the CLP models considerably better/different the the CP5?


Thank you kindly,

DS

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#1644817 - 03/20/11 06:19 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: sim871]
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
In your post you mention 5 different models--these are all expensive; you sure don't flinch at spending the money on a digital. Any one of them would be more than satisfactory for any playing, so to worry about how the action on one compares to that on another is essentially meaningless, in my view. I use a Williams Overture digtial that I bought sight-unseen online in 2009 for $600 (US). This is a cheap digital, nowhere near the price range of the ones you're considering, and yet it's okay for any playing, from jazz improv to concertos.

I would be wary of the CP 1 and CP 5 if you've never played before. These are apparently sophisticated stage pianos intended for stage use by pros, and as such they may not have built-in speakers. Fitting speakers to a stage piano can be tricky for a novice.

The F 01 and CLP 308 also would give me pause. These are wallet-busting expensive, and I'm wondering if the trendy design might go completely out of style in the future. If you're considering them mainly for the offbeat design, this is something to think about. Also, there might be an inherent stability problem with them. The ultra slim design may require bolting them to the wall.

If the choice were mine among the five, I'd go for the V-Piano. The reason is that this has cachet. This is the piano that everyone talks about but few people have. Having one would immediately put you on the A list. People will come for miles around just to see it.

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#1644845 - 03/20/11 07:14 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: sim871]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
Both the CP1 and CP5 share the same action. This action is not designed as an "authentic" acoustic piano substitute, but specifically to suit the hybrid nature of these DPs. The keys have some wood in their fabrication but are not graded - i.e. they have the same weight to them from top to bottom of the keyboard, unlike a grand piano where the resistance increases as you progress towards the lowest notes (due to increased hammer mass). The CP action is designed more to support the playing of different types of simulated instruments, such as electric pianos as well as acoustic. A lot of people have reported that it works very well, giving very good player/sound connection.

As Gyro points out, these are complex instruments with a lot of user control over how the sound is processed. They are probably most suited to stage/studio work, but that is a decision for the individual purchaser. You can hook them up to powered monitors using the instruments' outputs - it is not difficult. To get the best from them you'd need high quality monitors.

The CP50 has an all-plastic graded hammer action, similar to many of Yamaha's home DPs. It offers less control over the sound and the quality of reproduction won't be quite as good as the CP1. Both the CP50 and CP5 offer a lot of additional sounds, but have quite complex interfaces, the CP1 concentrates mainly on acoustic and electric piano simulations and is, by all accounts, easier to get your head around.

I don't think that the V-piano suffers from the polyphony issue (not sure about key wear). The V-piano is totally modeled and uses a different sound processor to the new RDs. It is only capable of acoustic piano modeling, but users think that it offers the most realistic player/sound connection of any digital. Some complain of the sound being a little synthetic in the mid-range, but it's definitely a big step forward among hardware DPs. The polyphony problems faced by owners of the SN RDs seem to be mostly related to simultaneous playback of recorded material with keyboard playing.

Have you considered the Kawai MP10 (stage model) or the CA63/93 (home models)?
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1644884 - 03/20/11 08:17 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: Gyro]
sim871 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 6
Thanks for your comments. The look of the DP is not important but I do prefer a smaller cabinet/size.
I am familiar with keyboards generally as I have owned a DX5, DX7 and SY77 in my time. None of these had weighted action and I ran them thru a Peavey KB300 amp.

The V seems the most expensive at least on the sites I've checked. If, in your view they are all good, I am not sure it's worth the extra cash for my needs. The f01 can be had for $5K, is small, eliminates the need for additional speakers and should have a pretty decent KB action. Are you aware of any particular issues with the F01, looks aside?


DS

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#1644890 - 03/20/11 08:24 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: voxpops]
sim871 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 6
@voxpops

CP50: I was thinking that the wood keys would have a better feel. I am not concerned about the complexity of the keyboards that will not be an issue.

I had not considered Kawai because I have no experience with them. Are they as reliable as Yamaha, Roland? I'll do some research around them. thank you.

DS

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#1644896 - 03/20/11 08:39 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: sim871]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3780
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: sim871
The f01 can be had for $5K, is small, eliminates the need for additional speakers and should have a pretty decent KB action.
Please allow me to correct you ...

If the F01 is available for $5000, then someone is greedy. This is an older model, with specs similar to a low-end Clavinova ... but in a trim, stylish cabinet. Most surely not worth $5000, even if brand-new. Not even close.

As for eliminating the need for external speakers ... those on the F01 are no better than on a middle-range Clavinova (CLP240 or CLP340). In other words, tolerable but not really good.

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#1644931 - 03/20/11 10:23 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: sim871]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1727
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


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#1644969 - 03/20/11 11:43 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: sim871]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
You can connect good speakers to any DP. Given that you were even concidering a $5K DP then I assume you can spend $$$ on good speakers. The first decide if you want a near field sound if so look at monitors or if you want the "fill" the entire room" Then by home type stereo speakers. It's not the volume but the size of the area. It is the piano bench or the whole room that is to be covered?

The Yamaha CP1/5/50 have yamahas latest sound inside. They ar stage pianos but could work in the home too.

What would it cost to fly to the US for a weekend? Might be worth it to spend a couple days in music stores.

If you must buy best on specs only, a low risk piano is what I have the Yamaha P155. It costs $1K. It has key action like other better Yammahas and pretty good gran piano sound but the other sounds are just OK. I'd hate to spend much just based on reading

DOn't discount Roland and Kawai. You should try thr key actions on both.

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#1644986 - 03/21/11 12:11 AM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: sim871]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: sim871

CP50: I was thinking that the wood keys would have a better feel. I am not concerned about the complexity of the keyboards that will not be an issue.
DS

I think you'll find that the Yamaha NW "wood" keys are a composite wood/plastic. As pointed out, it's a pleasant, fast action - but feel is such a personal thing that it really makes sense to find one somewhere to see if it suits you.

The Kawai wooden action in the MP10 etc. is more of a "traditional" action that is a closer acoustic emulation.

Originally Posted By: sim871

I had not considered Kawai because I have no experience with them. Are they as reliable as Yamaha, Roland? I'll do some research around them. thank you.

DS

There have been a few teething problems with some recent Kawai models, but Kawai is very proactive about troubleshooting - e.g. see this thread: "Kawai MP-10 Statement." From my limited experience, long term reliability is as good as the other manufacturers you mention.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1645044 - 03/21/11 03:12 AM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: sim871]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1717
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)





Quote:

Do the CP1 and CP5 have the exact same action?


Yes

Quote:
Would I be able to run the CP5 direct into monitors (KRK VXT8s or HSM 80s)?


Yes

Quote:
How would you compare the F01 to the CP5 in terms of action? Is either considerably better (heavier)?


It heavier then the Cp5 but its fairly awful piano, way over priced. more style then substance.

Quote:
Is the action on the CLP models considerably better/different the the CP5?


Its different, not better. The Cp5 is a better piano by miles then any CLP model.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1646130 - 03/22/11 09:17 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: MacMacMac]
sim871 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 6
@MacMacMac

Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Originally Posted By: sim871
The f01 can be had for $5K, is small, eliminates the need for additional speakers and should have a pretty decent KB action.
Please allow me to correct you ...

If the F01 is available for $5000, then someone is greedy. This is an older model, with specs similar to a low-end Clavinova ... but in a trim, stylish cabinet. Most surely not worth $5000, even if brand-new. Not even close.

As for eliminating the need for external speakers ... those on the F01 are no better than on a middle-range Clavinova (CLP240 or CLP340). In other words, tolerable but not really good.


This is what I was referring to:
http://www.kraftmusic.com/search/index.asp?query=f01

I'll ask what year/exact model this refers to. Thanks for the heads up.

DS

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#1646141 - 03/22/11 09:39 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: Dave Ferris]
sim871 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 6
@ Dave Ferris

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


The CP5 will have the newer NW (new wood) action not found on the Modus. That may be to your liking. To me it gives greater control then Yamaha's older "graded action". The main complaint is the NW action is too light. It is light for sure but then it's a DP, I don't do any serious practicing on it. smile



Thank you Dave, I was doing some reading that seemed to suggest that the CP1/5's keyboard keys all had the same weight as opposed to heavier to lighter like on a real piano? I suspect I would prefer a heavier 'graded' action. I will be doing some serious practicing on mine.

DS

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#1646149 - 03/22/11 09:50 PM Re: Help w/ DP purchase (CP5, F01 or CLP) [Re: ChrisA]
sim871 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 6
@ChrisA

Originally Posted By: ChrisA

What would it cost to fly to the US for a weekend? Might be worth it to spend a couple days in music stores.

DOn't discount Roland and Kawai. You should try thr key actions on both.


I may just delay the purchase till August. I'm taking the fam to Orlando for the month. I should be able to find some stores to see/play all of the KBs I'm interested in. Plus it gives more time for research!
I am doing some reading on the Kawai MP10. Many comment on its KB action. Unfortunately, like the Roland there seem to be issues with the early release models. I would hate to ship a KB to Bermuda and then back again because it is defective. That might cost me the price of brand new KB! Thanks for your comments.

DS

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