Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.

Cee

Most excellent Autumn Leaves. For a complete beginner like me I realy can hear the individual notes. All the pauses for breath and repeating rythms that Jazwee and others talk about are there.

Many thanks for this. Full of ideas and I can actually hear what is going on. If you ever do another AL do post it here as the speed and clarity of this is realy good for beginners to hear. What are you going to be like when you get the hang of the piano.

Swing Cabbage

OK, still moving through the very early pages of this thread... here's a short snippet of my combined attempt at:
1. 1/7 LH + 3's only in RH
2. the elusive Charleston rhythm

HERE

I've had an unforeseen circumstance that has greatly limited my acces to a piano, and will continue to do so for about a week So much for my lenten pledge to practice every day

@SwingCabbage, thanks, I didn't really post those recordings for some kind of benchmark to be achieved or anything, I just wanted to share some of my ideas and get some sense of where I am with my swinging. I'm not really a "straight-ahead" player... I am of course glad if it does help somebody get some inspiration I myself am infected with the "new instrument-new ideas" syndrome right now

@Legal Beagle,

That sounds nice, here's a couple of things you can do to strengthen your playing straight off the bat:

Don't forget about time. Time is as important as learning the 1/7 and 3 so if you can, find a metronome and play with it. If you start incorporating time at this stage you'll find it synced in your system as you progress, and everybody loves a piano player with solid time.

You can have it play half notes on downbeat at first, and when you get the hang of it, switch it to beats 2 and 4. You can fine-tune your balance way better when you have some kind of anchoring point with the metronome. (it would pretty much be like the drummer's hi-hat)

The second thing you can try is inverting the chords (even if you're playing them with both hands). When playing with a bass player it's not really cool to play the root on the LH. Pretty much steps all over his territory. It's like having a rude sax player solo on top of your piano solo. Not cool.

So once you get comfortable with 1/7 LH and 3 on RH, try 3/7 on LH and 5 (or 1 or melody) on the RH.

I also recommend getting the Jamey Aebersold play-alongs, they're pure gold. There's slow versions, and fast versions, and different key versions, everything you need to start out.

That's unfortunate you don't have access to the piano so often, but do keep posting your progress!

edit: Oh, and one more thing, I notice you hit the second chord of the phrase quite hard. Don't worry it's a natural thing, the hand just wants to do it. Right now it sounds a little rushed and that's just because of the dynamics of it.

I'd recommend playing a little dynamic game with yourself when practicing:
Once you have the chords down and you're in time (maybe with the help of a metronome) play this exercise:
- all equal dynamics - ppp
- first chord f, second p
- first chord p, second f
- equal dynamics fff (just for the fun of it)
- first three chords ppp, fourth chord fff!

So you can mess around with dynamics while you learn as well.

I guess the important thing here is not to overlook something just because you're learning/practicing something else. It's as important to learn harmony as time, dynamics and technique right from the very beginning.

Once you get fairly comfortable with some elements (the chords or time) start focusing on some others (dynamics) while still doing the first.

Cheers!

Thanks, Cee. Your input is great, as I knew it would be.

Good work LegalBeagle. Cee's comments are of course correct.

The 1/7 - 3 lesson is to develop solo piano two handed voicings so what Cee is talking about goes to the rootless voicings in lessons to follow.

You see you tight Cee's time is? It takes a long time to get to that point so a long term relationship with the metronome will be necessary in this journey

As far as Charleston, I think you're on the downbeat on the second stab (3) or slightly later than you ought to be. It should be 2+. A metronome mark would make this clear since I'm assuming where the beats are. Try it a slower so the beat demarcations are clearer.

Some people just hate playing with a metronome though. And I am one of them.

I instead replaced the click with Aebersolds and the later with my own sequencing of rhythm sections and finally of complete tunes.

There's always alternatives, that's what I'm trying to say

My iPhone ended up in toilet so no can record till I replace or fix.

I have a jazz practice question though (remember I'm new to piano).
When practicing arpeggios should I be practicing 1 3 5 7 1 3 5 7 1 ect and then mix them up (like 1 5 3 7 5 1 7 3 ) or should I also be adding in the 9 and 11 as these are used in Jazz a lot?

Currently I found this lesson on youtube and have been following it as done in video.
Can't find URL but a search under 'Piano with willie part 12' will find it. (haven't really looked at other lessons)

My Q is should I just stick to 1357 or do 3579 or 1357911. Apologies if this is v basic but can't record at mo and advice here appreciated.

Thanks folks
SwingC


I remember I think Jazzwee discussing arpeggios 3 5 7 9 I think somewhere? No root in arp (because in LH maybe)

SC, don't practice with 11.

In general if you practice normal arpeggios of 7th chords 1 3 5 7, you will already hit them all.

For example, let's say you're practicing a CMaj7 arpeggio. When I say 3 5 7 9, it's really just an Em arpeggio (1 3 5 7 of Em). So scales and arpeggios are just normal technique practice.

IN REAL PLAYING - we don't play scales or arpeggios. We play melodies. As a separate practice, just noodle around with an arpeggio like a 3 5 7 9 and see how you can construct melodies. Don't be hesitant to use "repeats".

Thanks Jazzwee
Yes I see that now. One chords 1357 is another chords 3579. Yes I get it.
I'm just askin cause the step I'm on is to add chord tones to my improv. The arps are helping my head and fingers connect. Slowly.
By repeats I presume you mean repeat melodies, repeat notes, repeat rhythms on different chords, repeat mistakes and the like.
Thanks again and sory for the very basic question.
SC

I have kept up using a metrognome for technique practice even with arps. I have also been trying offbeat emphasis while doing arp practice with 8th notes. Is this correct to keep off beat emphasis when practicing technique?
Should I keep quarter notes slightly short as well when practicing technique?
I do keep off beat emphasis on 8th notes when noodling as well.

Actually, for long term use, you'll need to practice in all variations. Legato, detached, stacatto, swing straight, swing hard, even eighths. All of the above.

The issue is knowing when to call them in as tools.

Now that I'm playing in public regularly, it's amazing sometimes how one is able to recollect all this. At the early stage, it seems like an impossibility. There's a lot to do but the only way to handle them in a short time is to manage your practice to the minute detail.

Set short term practice/memorization goals and "tick" off the ones you complete. Each ticked item is a skill. By the time you have thousands of these little skills it will all come together.

I always use the metronome beats on 2 & 4, even on some classical stuff - but especially on scales. I like that backbeat better.

Tanks daviel and Jazzwee. I'm still slow at ticking things. This will pick up over time.
I will move to 2 & 4 soon.,

OK

For now I am aiming to learn scales to a metrognome legato and also off beat emphasis.
Scales I am using Metaphors for the musician as it is very clear. Chapter 11.

For Arps I am just doing legato to start.
When I get some sort of fluency in these can I put them up for you folks to critise / critique? I do try and use them musicly as you may be able to tell in my latest attempt following.

80 bpm, iRealBook, piano turned off and drums down. Recorded over the air on my laptop (iPhone dead) using Audacity.
The quality doesnt seem good. I may need to find another recording mechanism.

I hit bum notes and many times emphasis was wrong. I was focusing as much as possible to add in some chord tomes instead of just G scale done right.

If this recording is to bad to listen to please tell me. It seems OKish on ipad.

All critism apreciated.

http://www.box.net/shared/8l894cnb6s

SwingC

Apologies. All notes sound staccato and bad. It just a bad recording of bad playing.
I will return.
SwingC

Hi Swing. This sounds musical to me. I can't comment on the recording because I don't know much about these things. I have a Zoom and that works well for me. But in terms of musicality, it sounds in control (by this I mean it sounds like you are playing the notes you intend to play, not just notes randomly) - also you have clear phrases, you start phrases on different beats of the bar (which is good) and you are not afraid of rests.

As you pointed out, legato is a major issue. Legato is the work of years. It doesn't come quickly to anyone, I don't think. Perhaps some classical playing will help? Certainly scales are good practice for legato.

The other thing is I think the recording quality doesn't do you any favours in the legato effect. In other words, it probably sounded better live, so don't beat yourself up over it. But do work on it.

Thanks TLT. it's almost as if everything under a certin level did not make it onto the recording. You can hear that as the notes moved left they lasted longer. There is either a frequency cutoff or a decibel cutoff. It is a cheap sound card in my pc. Twas worth a try but i'll not do it that way again.p

I am looking into another way to record.
Thanks for the ''musical' comment.
Legato, legato legato. Sgonna always be a focus.

Thanks again

SwingCabáiste

Was thinking more about this overnight. For developing legato technique, it may be helpful (even necessary) to dedicate some time to playing music from sheet. By this I mean, playing where you know where your fingers are going, and they also know. Where they learn certain lines by doing them over and over. Mozart is good for this, Bach also.

LOL TLT
I have come along way in very few months but actually playing Bach and Mozart tis a little early for me. I need to keep focus.

Lets go back to your idea ina few months if my submissions to this post show I am still stuck hard in non legato land. I realy think that it was the recording and not my playing but there are Some (legato / sticato) mistakes in there. Where it is obviously wrong even with the bad recording.

I am going to learn my daughters exame pieces from sheet. I think that these are possibly closer to my standard. There is fingering written there for her so this will be good for me. It also indicates when it is sticato ( not legato)as well so This will help me.

Another of those many boxes to tick is to be able to read lead sheet for the melody of tunes that I dont know. I will have to learn to sight read to some decent standard. This is not on the menue for ticking at the moment though.

Believe it or not I think that I am getting the legato together. The next propper recording will tell.

SwingC