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#1647572 - 03/25/11 02:00 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
SC, it was hard to decipher the tones from that recording. LOL. The recording was so distorted that it actually sounded atonal.

But if I can listen closely, it really is very well done. Good structure in the arpeggios and you really know how to use space well. Don't ever change that.

Yes legato is an issue. I see this all the time from people who do legato well normally. When one improvises it's like one pulls back instead of digging in. Like hesitation and unsureness. Well that's natural in improvising. So in general, I don't think you will struggle with legato.

Don't forget to use long notes that you've done so well before. The mix is always good.

On legato - there are levels of legato. When we really want to get struct about legato, just about everyone can be cited by the legato police unless you're the likes of Keith Jarrett. It's a constant battle to achieve perfect legato and a lot of hand strength and suppleness is required.

My teacher gave me a specific exercise for developing legato that I used for years and Chris Bell posted it for me in the Pianist Corner. Perhaps, Chris can link to it again (Chris - the Lydian Exercise?).

Overall, your progress is amazing. You are probably going to learn this as fast as I did. I may have to develop new lessons for you eventually since you don't have a teacher. smile



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#1647573 - 03/25/11 02:03 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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SC - at some point here, you'll need to shift to Bb Blues so we have a simplified platform to learn new things.

A good sample tune is Blue Monk.

I want to teach you about another aspect of playing which is the basis of jazz. It's called "Call and Response".
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#1647662 - 03/25/11 08:17 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: SwingCabbage]
ten left thumbs Offline
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Originally Posted By: SwingCabbage


I am going to learn my daughters exame pieces from sheet. I think that these are possibly closer to my standard. There is fingering written there for her so this will be good for me. It also indicates when it is sticato ( not legato)as well so This will help me.



Very sensible. In a way, it doesn't matter what level it is - as long as you play it well.

(Ducks under table in case the legato police are around....

Following on from jazzwee's idea, you could do some fun 'question and answer' games with your daughter.
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#1647668 - 03/25/11 08:21 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Perhaps, Chris can link to it again (Chris - the Lydian Exercise?).
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#1647674 - 03/25/11 08:33 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
SwingCabbage Offline
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Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 81
Loc: Éire
Thanks Jazzwee. I shouldnt realy have put up that last recording due to it's poor quality. Working on this. I have a midi cable with a USB output so I will try this with Audacity over the weekend. Should be interesting.

I'll locate the lead sheet for Blue Monk and start my 17 LH voicings and learn the melody in RH. I'm sure I know it from one of the albums I have been listning. I'll get back to you when I'm there. Also will need ot learn Bb scale. Give me a bit of time with this.

I still have loads to go on AL so do you invisage that I would do these in paralell. I'm only now getting the hang of chord tones in improv and still have a long ways to go. I hope. I still am mainly working at improv at 80 bpm. I am slowly upping my scales speed. Slowly.

Folks
The Metephors for Musicians book is most excellent in helping get things right at the start with these scales. Fingering explained so simply.

The exclent explinations about the visual patterns is simply simple. Excelent. Right down my alley. Connects with my brain.
Thanks folks for recomending that book.

Thanks again for comments.

Swing Cabáiste
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#1647747 - 03/25/11 11:16 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: chrisbell]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
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Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Perhaps, Chris can link to it again (Chris - the Lydian Exercise?).


Thanks Chris!

SC and to all learning in this thread. This here is an extremely important hand strengthening/legato exercise. It is to be done in all keys. Ascending a half step each time on both hands. Repeat each key many times.

10 minutes of this a day should make a big difference. Play absolutely legato. It is horrenduously difficult at first. I tend not to linger on the key of F# because that's a very difficult stretch.

This should be a regular technical practice routine aside from scales. The effect on my legato was tremendous but it took years.

This was invented by my teacher who DOES have the legato of Keith Jarrett.

BTW - just a funny side note...I've been working on Chopin Etude 10/1 lately and all the stretches in this exercise are pretty puny now in comparison smile But it was though way back when.
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#1653926 - 04/03/11 06:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Hi everyone, just wanted to share this amazing website I found:

http://www.ralphpatt.com/index.html

He has his own fake book (Vanilla book) which is simpler to follow - not tunes, just chords, you do what you like with them, also analysis of the tonal shifts, and backing tracks for many, many standards.

Good one to bookmark.

How's everyone?
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#1654026 - 04/03/11 11:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Hey TLT, I have that link too from way back. I've used it many times before. Good to pass that.

Now though, the iRealBook app on my Iphone has every tune. You should see the jam sessions here. After I showed it once, everyone started bringing their iphones and relying on that instead of the Real Book.

The advantage is that you can transpose the lead sheet smile

I have a little jazz "concert" coming up so I'm practicing like crazy so I don't make a mess of it. No rehearsal...like real jazz.
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#1654235 - 04/04/11 10:56 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
Manndrew Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Hi everyone, just wanted to share this amazing website I found:

http://www.ralphpatt.com/index.html

He has his own fake book (Vanilla book) which is simpler to follow - not tunes, just chords, you do what you like with them, also analysis of the tonal shifts, and backing tracks for many, many standards.

Good one to bookmark.

How's everyone?


TLT,

This is a terrific site. Lots of useful stuff. Thanks for the link.

Andy
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#1654333 - 04/04/11 01:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
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Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Andy - glad you like the site.

Jazzwee - somehow the idea of you all reading your iphones is really funny. Soon we won't need music-stands. Just phone stands.
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#1655468 - 04/06/11 12:32 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
jazzwee Offline
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Loc: So. California
TLT, it is funny to see a GROUP of musicians with iPhones/Ipads. smile It really is. But when a vocalist changes keys on you, everyone is quick to borrow someone's phone (if they don't have one).

I realize I started this but it is amusing how to they all gravitated to it.

We can't just change key on an acoustic piano and who's going to sit there and transpose with 1 minute of prep? smile

Times have changed. LOL!
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#1669805 - 05/02/11 12:44 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
I figure I should add this here for posterity. It's been a long time since I started this thread. Now it is fitting that I post a performance of this in public.

This was in G minor. So a different key than what is discussed in this thread. This is the other common key.

Autumn Leaves
http://www.box.net/shared/0xdsygnree
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#1669835 - 05/02/11 04:10 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
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Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Hi jazzwee,

This certainly is a piece of Autumn Leaves thread history! Nice going, lovely solo! Shame your audience is so loud. And well done on the singing too! laugh I'd always imagined you with a deeper voice...

wink
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#1670048 - 05/02/11 01:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
TLT, LOL! Yep - this is pretty historical for this thread. smile

Actually I didn't mind the loud audience. Nowadays, it's a rare thing to find a large audience such as this listening to jazz. But we did draw them in and although the audience didn't have to pay, they had to make reservations and ended up buying lots of drink and food.
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#1670785 - 05/03/11 05:07 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
SwingCabbage Offline
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Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 81
Loc: Éire
Thanks for posting this Jazzwee. Will listen again soon.
I'm still practicing but have had a few large interruptions to my flow.
12 Scales are decent ish now. Arps only ok. No recordings but cross fingers will have some as soon as can as I realy really could do with some feedback.
Starting on legato exercise and have blue monk leadsheet printed. Only getting 15 min every second day ish. Getting back on track.

Was good to hear you live. Excellent socks.
Cabbage
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#1670791 - 05/03/11 05:15 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Yeah, I wondered what happened to you SC. Glad to know you're still on this. You didn't seem to be the type that quits. But with your energy, we'll be listening to your live performances in a few years thumb

BTW - because AL was done in a different key here, it was like playing a new tune. I wasn't used to this key at all and had to concentrate on the changes. But sometimes that change is good because at least my fingers didn't gravitate towards typical patterns.

If AL were practiced in different keys, it would be like practicing so many different tunes. It might seem boring but it would accomplish a lot. I should do it myself.
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#1675455 - 05/11/11 06:12 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
SwingCabbage Offline
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Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 81
Loc: Éire
http://www.box.net/shared/c57qso71ot

First recording in ages. As usuail warts and all. At least better recording quality than the last.

This is 11 min long. Improv starts @ 1:40, early one of my pixies is talking to me through it.

Remember where I was in lessons was have a lead note into the third then use scales up and down. Also use now added arpegios for the first time.

Thanks folks

Cabbage
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#1675796 - 05/11/11 07:34 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Very solid work there SC. Quite admirable really. The lines are almost ready to turn into full phrases if you start connecting them with your ears.

Looks like it will come automatically too if I just leave you alone to it.

You have a natural ear for this as well. You seem to have taken this out of the realm of randomly hitting chord tones but making a shape to the melody.

Just avoid the extreme long-short phrasing (more noticeable at the beginning). Just even it out a little.

I noticed too as you were trying to start it at the beginning that you were getting yourself centered on the offbeats. Man, you are just so instinctive at this.

Great work. Keep at it! In a few years you'll be doing gigs smile
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#1676142 - 05/12/11 09:05 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
SwingCabbage Offline
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Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 81
Loc: Éire
When I listened my three things were
* connecting across the chords
* off beat emphasis
* still lost in the four chords over two bars.

I will focus on this. Practice Speed now at 85. I will move up to 90.

Many thanks for encouraging remarks.

Swing Cabáiste
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#1676348 - 05/12/11 03:14 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
SC, and don't forget about the Blues. We need to get you started on some other aspects because you are progressing very rapidly. When you get started on that, we'll discuss some issues that apply to general soloing.

Also practice rootless LH voicings.
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#1676437 - 05/12/11 05:21 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
SwingCabbage Offline
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Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 81
Loc: Éire
Blue monk next on list.
Rootless. I'll need to read back over that.
Ok. Will do. Thanks again
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#1676488 - 05/12/11 06:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
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Do you have a backing track?
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#1677377 - 05/14/11 05:26 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
SwingCabbage Offline
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Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 81
Loc: Éire
I use iRealBook on iPhone. Bb is the default key. Although as you said easy to change key in iRealBook.
Maybe if you pick a version of melody from YouTube I can try decipher the basic melody and we can use that as melody. Could be interesting to try and do that as an exercise.

Bb scale easy for me now. I came across page one of Tom Waits 'martha' and tried it. Already knew Bb from scales you told me to learn. Was good fun.
Like TLT was saying I should also be learning some music with notes. Also had a go of daughters beginner piano tunes.

I warm up with scales trying to keep legato. I have them RH now for all 12 major scales and have LH for the easy six and Bb. This is sore for me after 10 min so I stop. Slowly able to do it for longer. 8 weeks ago after 3 min I was feeling strain.

Anyway I rant

BC


Edited by SwingCabbage (05/14/11 07:02 AM)
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#1677384 - 05/14/11 06:00 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
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Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Hi Swing C - really you do some very nice things here with the improv. I hear you have a target note in mind, and you get there in interesting ways. Also good to hear you are developing your playing generally. Strength and dexterity come with time - the other thing with a scale is you begin to internalise the intervals. Speaking of which, do you do chords or arpeggios at all?

I also have pixies who 'help' when I play. One starts his own scat improv, which can be a little offputting, but I don't like to stem his natural enthusiasm.

btw - I do hear the offbeat accents. Not always, but they are there.
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#1677738 - 05/14/11 07:42 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
For those of you who want to pick some tunes to practice that are not too hard but provide some variety, let me list some common ones that are in the easy category. Can't be stuck on just Autumn Leaves.

Softly as In the Morning Sunrise
On Green Dolphin Street
A-Train
One Note Samba
How High The Moon
Days of Wine and Roses
Blue Monk
All of Me
Satin Doll
Fly Me to the Moon
Blue Bossa

...Others can add. But list only the simple ones.
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#1677800 - 05/14/11 09:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
cubop Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 28 2012


Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 368
Loc: Norway
My suggestion for more tunes: Summertime. It should be fairly simple being in Aebersolds Maiden Voyage. Satin Doll and Autumn Leaves is in the same book.
Another suggestion: Improvising in the Cmin blues scale. That should be Cmin with Fsharp added. If someone have a tune that fits, it would be fine, but coming up with something of your own is easy. What makes things so easy here is that not too many chords are necessary or useful.

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#1677803 - 05/14/11 09:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Yes - Summertime is good. I was demonstrating to a vocalist why I'd really appreciate it if she stuck to the standard key of Am.

I then proceeded to just bang on ANY WHITE NOTES and it sounds great smile

BTW - Maiden Voyage is VERY ADVANCED. Heck, I don't even play that in a gig. I remember going to my teacher after 1 year of study and said I'd like to play Maiden Voyage. He laughed at me SO HARD and said he'll talk to me about it in 4 years. Of course he's no longer my teacher smile
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#1678122 - 05/15/11 12:25 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
cubop Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 28 2012


Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 368
Loc: Norway
Maiden Voyage is one of the tunes in the book Maiden Voyage, but most of the others should be easy. I have just started on Autumn Leaves in Bmaj, and next will be Summertime.

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#1678131 - 05/15/11 12:51 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Maiden Voyage is playable early on. It's just hard to make it sound convincing that you're playing near what Herbie intended.

BTW - BMaj for Autumn Leaves is one strange key. Normally you hear it in Em or Gm.
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#1678166 - 05/15/11 01:35 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
cubop Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 28 2012


Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 368
Loc: Norway
Concerning Autumn Leaves in Bmaj. Confusing terminology again. The German and Norwegian term is B-dur, where dur means Major, but the usual English term is Bb major. Key signature, E flat and B flat. Can be tricky to sort out things in three languages, in addition to all the different notations for chords and scales.

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