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#1648317 - 03/26/11 12:29 PM FINISHED! Building a piano cabinet for a digital piano. Pics
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
Hello, all. I'm new here.

I've just started playing piano around the beginning of January this year. I've wanted a piano ever since I was a kid, but started playing guitar at 12 and drums at 16. Now at 29, piano has found a place in my list of musical interests. I'm decently skilled in carpentry and decided that I'm going to build an upright cabinet for which my Casio CDP-100 can call home. I'm really in love with the Essex EUP 111e and used it as a template for my cab. I'm making it out of 3/4" MDF. I've made some schematics and whatnot if anyone on here is interested. I just wanted to introduce myself. Also, I was wondering if anyone here has taken on a similar project and if you had any words of advice? Thank you for your time.

-Zuul


Edited by Zuul (04/12/11 06:18 PM)

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#1648337 - 03/26/11 01:05 PM Re: Building an upright piano cabinet for my digital piano. [Re: Zuul]
craig son of berg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 158
Loc: WPB, FL, US of A
looking forward to pics of your progress. maybe give us some ideas.
_________________________
play that one again sam

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#1648380 - 03/26/11 02:31 PM Re: Building an upright piano cabinet for my digital piano. [Re: Zuul]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Zuul
.... Also, I was wondering if anyone here has taken on a similar project and if you had any words of advice? Thank you for your time.


I'm thinking that you might design it to also house speakers although designing speaker enclosures does requires some calculation and engineering to determine the internal volume size of the ports. And you have to balance that with cosmetics

Also, I'm wondering how you will finish the MDF. Veneer?

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#1648564 - 03/26/11 08:19 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36

This is what I've gotten figured out so far. Weather permitting I might get started on cuts tomorrow. I'm planning on just priming and painting it. But the guitar player in me is thinking about covering the whole thing in Tolex. The vinyl covering that's used for guitar cabs. Could be cool. I'm still undecided at the moment. Building it comes first regardless. Thanks for having a look. I'm pretty excited to get this started.

-Zuul

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#1648573 - 03/26/11 08:32 PM Re: Building an upright piano cabinet for my digital piano. [Re: ChrisA]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
I was thinking about putting speakers in it at some point. But I think I'll skip it. I can always just put speakers on top of it if needed. Headphones are where it's at for me at the moment. And many, many moments to come.


-Zuul

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#1648640 - 03/26/11 10:51 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
Stephen Hazel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 734
Loc: Seattle-ish, WA
That's a pretty heavy duty cabinet!
So you're makin' it look like a real upright?
I just went with a light stand.
http://pianocheater.com/piano/rig.html

I'd love to see how it comes out smile
_________________________
...Steve
http://PianoCheetah.com - writing my own piano practice program ...yeah, I'm crazy like that

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#1648683 - 03/27/11 12:13 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Zuul
But the guitar player in me is thinking about covering the whole thing in Tolex.


Tolex with metal corners, now that would be a cool piano.

But really, if you are going to all that trouble you may as well use some kind of "tone wood". MDF is just "dead" sounding. Then you place the speakers inside not on to. On top would put so much effort to waste

The sound of a piano radiates from the whole instrument. I have a theory that nothing smaller than a Piano will every really sound like a piano. You are doing most of the work See what Yamah did with their N2 Yamaha N2 The top opens and speakers are under the lid

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#1648732 - 03/27/11 05:52 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: ChrisA]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
Wow! Thank you for that link. I've never seen that before. I really dig it. Not only from a clean build sort of way but from a weighs less than what I was about to build way. ha! As for the MDF and it's deadness, I'm stuck with it. I've already got 2 sheets waiting for me in the garage. My mind is already working on a new cabinet. You saved me from making a mistake I've made before. I wanted to make an arcade cab for as long as I can remember and built one. A full size, stand up arcade machine.

Then I saw that folks had made smaller Bartop arcades and I kicked myself for not making that in the first place.

It turned out way better than the first.

I'm going to rework my plans and see what I come up with. I dig the speakers inside with the lid action. I wasn't liking the idea of cutting sound holes or attaching speaker grills to the front if I had speakers in it. That's why I was just going to skip it. Thank you, very much.

More soon I hope.


-Zuul
Always to quick to decide.

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#1648835 - 03/27/11 10:49 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
craig son of berg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 158
Loc: WPB, FL, US of A
screw it, why not just build an avantgrand n3 lol

prolly would be easier just to buy some hunk of junk baby grand and gut her out.


Edited by craig1999871 (03/27/11 10:50 AM)
_________________________
play that one again sam

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#1648906 - 03/27/11 12:16 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: craig son of berg]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
Eh, but where's the fun in that? I like the project. The work. Plus when you're finished you've got something unique that you can be proud of. Like writing a song.

-Z

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#1648966 - 03/27/11 02:11 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
Nice project, will be inspiration.

Do you plan replacing the Casio with another model? If so, other one must fit the cabinet also. Think about the pedals.

You could also make it for a DP with rear speakers such as Roland FP-4 or Yamaha P-155, and then place it the way the speakers play inside the cabinet - then the sound goes up through the lid. Even MDF will do some resonating job; look at the cheap guitars, they're not wooden, but some of them sound good.

Also look at the keyboard lid, it's essential to make it look nice. The best is curved, made of one piece, and smartly hidden when it's open.

Thank you for posting your project!
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#1648994 - 03/27/11 02:47 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: kiedysktos.]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
Thank you. Yeah, I doubt I'll be using the Casio forever. But it's good to learn with. Weighted keys, full 88. It's about L-53" W-11" H-5.5" The measurements I'm working with are 60"x20"x8" for the keyboard area. I've checked a bunch of different models online and I'm pretty sure I shouldn't run into any problems when upgrading. I completely agree with you on the importance of a nice lid. It's the main thing I've been stuck on with my drawings. At one point I was going to set it up using drawer rail slides so that the front flipped up and the whole thing slid into the cabinet body. But I've got this idea using 2 hinges that I think should work well enough. I'm working a new sketch right now that shows my intentions. Should be able to post it later.

Thanks again.
-Z

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#1649064 - 03/27/11 05:13 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
craig son of berg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 158
Loc: WPB, FL, US of A
Originally Posted By: Zuul
Eh, but where's the fun in that? I like the project. The work. Plus when you're finished you've got something unique that you can be proud of. Like writing a song.

-Z

that would be a project in itself. I would be proud of a digital grand retrofit. not to mention refinishing all the wood that probably looks like crap.


Edited by craig1999871 (03/27/11 05:14 PM)
_________________________
play that one again sam

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#1649128 - 03/27/11 07:47 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: craig son of berg]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
You're right, I can see how that could be sort of fun in it's own way.

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#1649669 - 03/28/11 04:36 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
altrent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/25/07
Posts: 61
Very interesting. Please keep us posted.
Don't you think MDF might be end up being too heavy for the completed product?
I am kind of tempted to go that way as well. I've been shopping for a CA63, but the local dealer is asking for an outrageous price and refuse to negotiate. So I've been contemplating buying an MP10 online and building a cabinet for it as well.

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#1649674 - 03/28/11 04:44 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Final Design. [Re: Zuul]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
Ok. After taking the internal speaker idea into consideration and changing the bottom, I'm finished with the design. It's not too different from what I had originally. I changed the bottom because what's the point of having an unused box space under the keyboard? Just more weight which isn't necessary. The weather is going to be crappy for the next few days so I might have to wait. I really don't want to cut this stuff indoors. MDF is extra dusty. I might just hang some cloth sheets all around the garage in a "Dexter kill room" sort of way to try and trap as much of it as I can. Here's what I've got...

The aspect and dimensions on the computer drawings are a bit off but good enough for working idea. I was messing around this morning with an old paint shop pro 7 program and I'm not the most skilled at using it. Thanks again for the speaker idea. I think that'll be a nice touch.

-Zuul

Wishing it'll stay nice outside for a few days.

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#1649683 - 03/28/11 04:54 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
Originally Posted By: Zuul
Thank you. Yeah, I doubt I'll be using the Casio forever. But it's good to learn with. Weighted keys, full 88. It's about L-53" W-11" H-5.5" The measurements I'm working with are 60"x20"x8" for the keyboard area. I've checked a bunch of different models online and I'm pretty sure I shouldn't run into any problems when upgrading. I completely agree with you on the importance of a nice lid. It's the main thing I've been stuck on with my drawings. At one point I was going to set it up using drawer rail slides so that the front flipped up and the whole thing slid into the cabinet body. But I've got this idea using 2 hinges that I think should work well enough. I'm working a new sketch right now that shows my intentions. Should be able to post it later.

Thanks again.
-Z


Hey, it's a DP right, who needs "traditional" lids? Why not have the entire keyboard flip down and or slide into the body? That'd be cool. Maybe even replace the entire electronics by sliding out the entire keybed and replacing it with another?

How about a space for an LCD display? Depending on how you finish it out, you can go with a smoked glass face to the display behind it, so when it's not on, you can't tell the monitor is back there (much cooler than a sliding door, ala player pianos).

Also, to echo what someone else mentioned, be sure you have a solid mount for your pedals, you'll regret it if you don't have it as you get more advanced.

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#1649880 - 03/28/11 11:11 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: bitWrangler]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Have you seen a Korg LP350. That is a very compact way to build a cabinet with a key cover. It would also be easy to build.

About attaching pedals: notice almost all of them have screws on the bottom that hold on a cover plate. Replace the cover with something much wider that can connect two or three pedals and then that connects to a crossbeam.

I'm still wondering why you would use MDF?

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#1650037 - 03/29/11 06:38 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: altrent]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
I chose MDF because it's very clean and easy to work with. It's not really all that much heavier than plywood. Maybe about 10-15 lbs per sheet of the same thickness. Plywood is a @!$#% when it comes to warping and stuff like that, from my experience. I might've just had cheap plywood? With my having to cut some pieces 3" x 58.5" I tried to imagine what a pain it would be to keep plywood from getting wonky and figured MDF was the way to go. Besides, if it doesn't work out well enough I'll have learned something and I'll just try again. haha

-Z

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#1650042 - 03/29/11 06:54 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: ChrisA]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
ChrisA,

I've not seen that Korg but I'd planned on making something like that just after I bought the keyboard. I don't like not having a strong structure covering it. I've been using a homemade cover but it's still not keeping it as safe as something with a lid. I just think a nice cabinet would be cool to build/have. MDF just seemed like the way to go for me. I've never used it before. It's the material most folks use for arcades but I opted for plywood. Mainly because it's cheaper. Only by about $12 or so. haha Figured it was as good of a time as ever to try something new. As for pedals, right now I'm using an M-Audio SP-2. I plan on cutting a notch in the center of the middle brace to give me room for the pedal. If/when I get something new I'll just adjust whatever needs to be changed to accommodate the new gear. Should be minimal whatever the case my be. It'll be a long while before I come to that bridge. The CDP-100 will be more than enough for me for years.


-Z

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#1650078 - 03/29/11 08:05 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
craig son of berg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 158
Loc: WPB, FL, US of A
I guess I misunderstood your intentions. I thought we were going after an acoustic piano look. Im guessing your leaning for that korglp350 look. (which looks like your typical casio stand)


Edited by craig1999871 (03/29/11 08:06 AM)
_________________________
play that one again sam

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#1650085 - 03/29/11 08:16 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 198
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Zuul, great project, and I agree with your comments about MDF. I've built many a bookcase and paneled cabinet door with the stuff, and it's great. One good thing about it is zero preparation for painting and then the painting results are outstanding. It won't take end-screwing without splitting, so watch your design there.

For speakers, my son just loaned me his Rocket 6 powered monitors for my DP at home. Wow! What a sound! If I were doing what you are doing, I'd make space in the cabinet at around ear level for a pair of these.

Looking forward to postings from you about your progress.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1650125 - 03/29/11 09:34 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
craig1999871,

No, you didn't misunderstand. I do want an acoustic piano look. But after thinking it over, there's no sense in making the area from the keyboard down look like a piano. It'd be empty space, extra weight, and wasted materials. So, basically it'll be a sort of half piano type thing. An L shaped cabinet with a lid. Who knows though, I may like how it looks and build the lower part to match. Either way the top half will be the same. Shouldn't be too difficult to add a rectangular box for the bottom if I change my mind. It may turn into a large pile of crap. ....we'll see. ha


coker,

Thanks. Yeah, I hear those are pretty sweet monitors. A guy at my work does a lot of recording for local bands and he recommended those to me also. For right now, since I'm still learning and those cost a bit much, I'll just use some 2.1 computer speakers. I don't play much without headphones anyway.

I've read about MDF and it's hatred for end-screwing so I got a bunch of L brackets for those areas. Glue and those should do well enough. Did you have any troubles when sealing the edges of the MDF on those bookcases?

Zuul

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#1650146 - 03/29/11 10:21 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 198
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Zuul, edges seem to paint up just fine. I haven't noticed any sealing problems.

If you have a router or a table saw, you may want to make a slot in one panel to accept the edge of the panel that meets it at a 90 degree angle, if you know what I mean. This would have a cleaner look than L brackets and enable you to glue the two pieces together.

Coker
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1650153 - 03/29/11 10:28 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Final Design. [Re: Zuul]
CMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 51
I decided to go the "real" approach for my cabinet. I picked up a 1922 Adam Schaaf 5 foot baby grand for free after advertising on the local buy and sell for a broken one. I am currently stripping it down to refinish it. I removed the harp and keys and am left with the empty box now. The following pic shows the locations that I am placing four 6 inch woofers and four dome tweeters, with two 12 inch drivers for the bottom end.

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#1650179 - 03/29/11 11:04 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Final Design. [Re: Zuul]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 198
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Fantastic! Tell us what you do with all the metal you removed from it. Do scrap yards take that stuff?
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1650189 - 03/29/11 11:27 AM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Final Design. [Re: Coker]
CMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 51
Well, I had a friend with a truck and snowmobile trailer. I was amazed at how little the cabinet weighs in comparison to the harp and keys. I didn't actually weigh it but that sucker must be close to 150 lbs. He was going to take it to the scrap dealer but as far as I know hasn't yet.


Edited by CMac (03/29/11 11:28 AM)

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#1650298 - 03/29/11 02:16 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Final Design. [Re: Zuul]
Zuul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 36
CMac! That's going to turn out really nice. I'll be looking out for updates for sure.

I had a little time today to get some work done before it got all crappy outside. Here's what I've got...



I put everything in the garage, cleaned up, came in the house and felt pretty good about the progress. Thought all my cuts were made. Yeah.... Forgot the damn top! Oh well, still good progress nonetheless. MDF is awesome to work with, aside from the dust. It cuts so nicely.

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#1650346 - 03/29/11 03:26 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Schematic pics. [Re: Zuul]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Zuul
. I'll just use some 2.1 computer speakers. I don't play much without headphones anyway.

I've read about MDF and it's hatred for end-screwing so I got a bunch of L brackets for those areas. Glue and those should do well enough. Did you have any troubles when sealing the edges of the MDF on those bookcases?


1) those 2.1 computer speakers are about the worst choice for digital piano. Even some way-cheap monitors would be better. the low-end 2.1 system is lacking in the exactly the range you play most on a piano. You need something with at least a 4.5" driver on the left and right side.

2) if gluing MDF it's best to make some kind of self aligning joint either with a router or dado blade on the table saw. but joints just have zero holding power.

Dowels work really well and are cheap and easy. If you plan to cover the MDF you can be really simple and drill from the outside and hammer the dowel in like a nail then hide it with wood filler. If you plan to paint you need to drill two holes from the inside of the joint and glue the dowel into one part before assembly.

3) The best way to finish MDF is by covering it up. The Tolex idea was good. Wood veneer is more common or even formica. Lacking any of that it's paint, sand, paint, sand, paint repeat as required.

4) better then l-brackets are 3/4" cleat blocks. Strips of 3/4" square hardwood that you glue and screw to inside corners.

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#1650352 - 03/29/11 03:35 PM Re: Building piano cabinet for digital piano. Final Design. [Re: CMac]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: CMac
The following pic shows the locations that I am placing four 6 inch woofers and four dome tweeters, with two 12 inch drivers for the bottom end.


How will you drive these speakers? I guess you'd need a rack of amps but I think the most critical part will be the way the stereo signal from the DP is crossed over to the many driver channels.

When Yamaha built the N3 Advent Grand they were able to sample an acoustic piano with a mic placed at every speaker location so each speaker had it's own sample set. But your system will have to somehow work with stereo samples. I've been wonding the best why to do this. What are you planning?

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