Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards THE RD-700NX Thread!

Small note, the full name is "after the rain has fallen". I just abbreviated for the midi file. :-) oops.

I agree completely with dewster on all these points. Brilliant isn't for me. The studio is my favorite. The concert is very nice too. I would also consider it right on the edge of solo album quality. It has all the right properties, good tone, realistic sampled sound, excellent dynamic capabilities, etc. The dynamics are probably from the fact that it isn't a 100% sampled piano. That is also why I think it has a slightly less realistic sound than the best sampled piano libraries.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It has an excellent sound, just not as realistic "forensically". This is probably the best non-100% sampled piano I've ever heard though. And I can say this, the instrument is amazing to play. With good volume on some nice monitors the piano sounds feel excellent to me.

Oops, sorry luisdent, I should have checked with you on that first. Fixed and noted.

Thanks for giving me the chance to put the NX through its paces with your nice piano piece!

FYI you can freely edit / delete any of your own posts here.

For the NX I think you want a flat response, either from nearfield monitors or good hi-fi speakers. If you don't need rip-roaring volume I wonder if a small PA sub coupled to some good bookshelf satellite speakers might do the job. With a sub the sats wouldn't need to be ported, nor would they need large woofers - 6" should be plenty for decent playing volume in a normal sized room.

You only need the XLR outs if you are running the wires over longer distances (like to a mixer out in the audience). For shorter runs the 1/4" outs should work fine.

Someone really should make a high quality speaker / amp system aimed at DPs for home use and intimate / background gig settings.

I have a set of infinity alpha 50 speakers (the whole surround set actually) I got back in 2002. These are by no means inexpensive (msrp of about $800 each back then), especially if you take into account the amplifier, but they reproduce nuances to an amazing level. Everyone that hears my setup, including myself is amazed at things they didn't know existed in songs they were already familiar with.

Listening to piano on these is one of my favorite things to do. I chose infinity because they are very good at making home speakers that have flat accurate response (no "colored" sound). The alphas are good enough on their own without a sub, because they have two 8" drivers, a 5 1/4" driver and a 1" driver all in one tower speaker. But you could possibly go with the primus model, although I haven't heard them personally. They are similar to the alphas but a bit smaller in every respect, so you might want a sub with those.

If you don't want to spend that much (you need an amplifier and cables too), for home only use, I would recommend studio monitors. I have a pair of alesis m1 active mkII bi-amp studio monitors that are excellent http://www.alesis.com/m1activemkii . They are about $300 a pair now (used to be $400). But you don't need to buy an amplifier because they are powered themselves. And you only need two 1/4" or xlr connectors. This saves some money. You could buy a home amplifier and speakers with a sub, but for $400 they won't sound as close to the accurate reproduction of a piano as the monitors.

You still might want a sub with monitors like the alesis, although I haven't yet felt the need for one myself and I record solo piano. They have pretty good low frequency handling if you're not into a lot of "sub" bass.

I used to sell home audio products as my job for a few years and learned a lot. First, everything is marked up insanely high. Ha. Second, you don't always need to spend a lot. There is a strange price curve. Cheap stuff if usually very bad. I would stay away from any speakers that are so cheap they seem to good to be true. When you get into the mid price range things go up in quality very fast. If you spend a few hundred dollars you'll get much better quality. Spend another few hundred and maybe 25% more quality. It seems (to me anyway) that after that initial jump to good quality, the more you spend the smaller the difference. I've heard $2000 speakers that were very close in quality to my $800 speakers, and then $5000 speakers that weren't much better than the last. Better, but not by much. Things also tend to get smaller and have better "design" at higher prices.

Anyway, to stay on topic. I really do think powered studio monitors would be the best bang for your buck and definitely the easiest. You can probably find an amplifier with two mid sized speakers and a sub, but you'll spend at least a few hundred dollars and you'll need to setup the amp, run speakers wires and run audio cables. Not too bad, but with the monitors you just plug them direct to the keyboard with xlr or 1/4". They are also good if you need to move them or possibly use them in a jam somewhere. You can get models with protective grills, but typically they come exposed, so the only downside is that.

Lastly, don't forget a nice set of headphones. The AKG K 240 mkII series are decent for the price (around $200) and comfortable. And they are portable! :-) But they won't give you as low of a piano bass response like a nice speaker.

For home use, monitor speakers are probably the best. I have a pair of JBL Control 2 professional near field monitors. These are mini sized monitors with a clean true sound with surprising depth to the bass for their size. Relatively inexpensive, I think the US price is around $200.00 a pair. With the new generation DPs that are around now I would stay away from keyboard amps, they don't them justice.

To all of you out there thinking about getting a 700NX and are worried about the issues that have been raised I say don't be. I got an NX the other day, spent all weekend on it and can't fault it. It's probably been said before but the flexibility with the SN sounds to taylor it to how you want them to sound is amazing. Even the Rhodes and Wurly sounds can be improved no end. (not to SV1 standard though) Plus you have all the extras - the instrumental and synth sounds are very impressive. And then there's the action... What's not to like.
Well that's my rant for the evening.

......the Weight

True...
I suppose it's a little long as well.

Many thanks for your replies dewster, luisdent and marknz.

Why is a flat response desirable for speakers when playing piano, but a coloured response is desirable when listening to an album of piano music? I have never understood that. If I can get one pair of speakers/monitors that will be good for both listening to CDs and playing piano, I will be very happy.

So if I am going down the monitors road, what do you think of adams, genelecs, dynaudios? I also noticed that focals have been winning awards over the last couple of years. KRK Rokit 8 seems to be the cheapest of the "good enough" range at around £400 a pair, but are they good enough do you think? A7's are around £600 a pair. BM5a's are around £800 a pair. Is it still the general consensus that actives are better than passives?

Cheers guys.

Regarding monitors for the RD. Anybody heard or know about these?
http://www.thomann.de/gb/esi_near_08_classic.htm
Good looking and with 8 inch speakers. Too cheap maybe?

That is simply an opinion. It is based on what someone likes their music to sound like. I personally like my music flat. If you have good quality monitors with flat response you will be listening to something as close as possible to the way it was recorded and intended to be heard.

High end home audio speakers usually aim at being "flat". This doesn't mean they can't pump out massive bass and screaming treble, but usually that is determined by the source material (the guy who mixed the movie's audio for instance), or by adjusting your settings/eq.

In the same way, if you want a realistic full piano sound, you want it to be played through speakers/monitors that are flat. This will ensure all the different frequencies are represented to the listener in just the right amounts that they were intended when the piano was recorded.

Hope that helps. Colored sound isn't necessarily bad, it's just not technically as "accurate". While some people prefer, others don't...

I ran an Erik Satie MIDI file through our NX here in case anyone wants to listen to it. I'm fairly impressed with how realistic it sounds.

RD-700NX Key Sympathetic Resonance

I am always interested in how DP manufacturers emulate real pianos, so today I thought I'd do a quick test of what key sympathetic resonance sounds like on the RD-700NX and how it responds.

I played C3 (one octave below middle C) slowly so it didn't make any noise, then I played all the notes one at a time from one octave below it to one octave above it. It turns out that only the notes C, F, and G (both above and below) produce a sympathetic response to the note C on the NX. I tried this experiment on our Young Chang grand as well, and these same notes produce the strongest resonance to the note C, though other notes induce weaker resonances. So, to a first order anyway, the NX seems to emulate reality.

I decided to record this NX key sympathetic resonance a couple of ways.

First:

1. C3 played softly, lifted, then played silently and held.
2. G2 brief (note played and lifted).
3. F2 brief.
4. C1 brief.
5. C3 lifted, then played silently and held.
6. F3 brief.
7. G3 brief.
8. C4 brief.

Next:

1. C1, F2, and G2 played softly, lifted, then played silently and held.
2. C3 brief (note played and lifted).
3. C1, F2, and G2 lifted.
4. F3, G3, and C4 played softly, lifted, then played silently and held.
5. C3 brief (note played and lifted).
6. C1, F2, and G2 lifted.

So in the first test the notes F, G, and C are used to stimulate the note C; and in the second test the note C is used to stimulate the notes F, G, and C.

This is with the key sympathetic resonance turned all the way up to 127, and all other resonance effects (pedal, duplex, reverb, etc.) turned off. If anyone wants to listen to it I put the MP3 of it here:

MP3: http://www.mediafire.com/?kf80gyipxxf5oh6

[EDIT:2011-03-31]Fixed descriptions to steps 3 & 6 in the second test.

Just tried it on my GEM. Like your Young Chang, notes other than C, F and G also produce some response, although very weakly in some cases, as you'd expect. The type of response also varies considerably, with some notes producing different harmonic overtones of varying intensity. Interestingly, the B and Db either side of the C create what sounds like a proximity vibration. All very realistic. Interesting that this decade-old design still trumps the NX in certain respects!

Receiving the first GEM DPBSD entry made me pretty excited. Blended layers (or whatever it is they do there), good key and pedal sympathetic resonance, long attack samples, nice string damp sound, not too badly stretched. I can see why people are / were attracted to them, they were definitely ahead of the curve. With longer loop samples they could have totally killed.

Not sure it was the length of the loop samples that really had much to do with their relative failure in the market....

I think they never caught on due to poor market recognition and presence....who in their right mind would form a company called "General Music"?!...no brand cachet at all. But ultimately, the products were unreliable. Then there was no consistency in their distribution chains around the world so owners of broken gear had no support.

I've owned a couple of their things and I always had that feeling..."I wonder when it will fail?". Not if, when.

Steve

Yes, but both Wakeman and Emerson were happy to use GEM products on stage - not a bad endorsement, really

I have to agree that their marketing/distribution/support was appalling, but their research and development was excellent. I still love playing my GEM piano, and there's no other DP I've ever owned that could keep me engaged for longer than a few months - and I've been through a lot of them.

Yes I agree, they had a bit of coverage with Wakeman and Emerson and I don't doubt that the ProMega 3 for instance in concept is an impressive bit of kit. They were certainly ahead of the curve with algorithms for resonances etc. But concept and execution are two different things. Shame it never really got properly established.

Well, the good thing about the PRP is that it's only one-third of a Promega 3, so there's only a 33% chance of it going AWOL!

Seriously though, even though I've experienced very occasional freeze-ups (is it running Windows?), they are not as unreliable as you suggest. Touch wood, it's never let me down during a gig, and hopefully never will - and I don't treat it gently.

I've had a Little Phatty freeze up, too, but I'd still buy another Moog