C to E flat is a minor 10th.

That's very good.

Mel

Same difference between my Privia and my Mathushek but I really can't tell any difference atributable to key width.

I imagine somebody has one someplace. There's a museum in Paris that has a cast of George Sand's arm.

Bob: I've only had one lesson (last Saturday). Well, I've "noodled" off and on for the past 15 years, but maybe a day or two out of every month if you averaged it out, and nothing that required any stretching. Seems I'll be ok, assuming I'm not some mutant with inflexible/unstretchable hands. :p

As a FYI for those discussing Rachmaninov, it is generally thought he had Marfan's syndrom, as well.

http://www.marfan.org/nmf/GetContentRequestHandler.do?menu_item_id=2

Some people who have Marfan's exhibit the ability to stretch their hands in unbelievable ways. The connective tissue isn't "normal", some of these people can flex joints sideways and all kinds of other interesting ways. While Rachmaninov was a big guy, and did have big hands, Marfan's explains his *extraordinary* span.

Re: Rach - very interesting. There's more about it in the article below.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1351877&blobtype=pdf

This discussion comes up here quite regularly, but I don't really see the point. Sure, my life would be easier if I were good-looking, witty, and rich, and I could become a better piano player if I had another 200 years to live and three hands, but in view of the lack of these qualities, you just try to make do with what you have.

(I can reach an octave with mild discomfort and a 9th if my life depended on it, and I'm still trying to play.)

Just think of it as guys comparing - - - engines.

Yes, that was actually more or less my thought, too. Well, I did post my data (to avoid misunderstandings and because you might think otherwise if you just measured my hands: I am a guy).

I am good-looking, witty and rich and still I'm not allowed to sleep on park benches or under bridges. So, you shouldn't envy us...

glitzer: For somebody starting out, who doesn't really know much about piano, it's only natural to ask "will I be able to play." That's what I did. It wouldn't make sense for me to invest 10 years in something I won't ever be able to do because of a physical limitation. Not knowing piano, I didn't know if small hands are crippling, or if they are ok.

From the response, it's quite obvious hand size does make a difference, but even if you have small hands it doesn't mean you can't play piano. That's the answer I was looking for. I'm about "average" in span it seems, and should be able to play a tenth between blacks after my hand stretches more, but even if I could only hit an octave I'd still give it a go, now knowing that it's quite alright and doable! Hope this helps explain why it gets asked (or at least - why I asked.) At $60/hour to learn, I tried to make sure I wasn't just throwing my money into the toilet and flushing it over and over.

Thanks frycek, buxtehude and dannylux!

And I agree, 13!? Thats huge! So if I understand correctly this is from C to A. Almost two octaves!!

An octave (C to C) is an 8. C to the D above that C of the octave is a 9. This is using the C major scale as the example.

I do not know what C to Eb is called.

If anyone wants to investigate a smaller keyboard, there are two models which currently exist for the smaller-handed pianist - be that a child, a student with a tiny hand, or an adult amateur whose hands may have stiffened with time. David Steinbuhler in Pennsylvania makes a 7/8 keyboard and a 15/16 size keyboard. These can either be built into an existing piano (does not change the sound at all)or - if one wants to invest in a so-called "portable" keyboard, it is available at a higher price and can be easily fitted into a Steinway concert grand (American model only at this point).

Guys I have a question which is somehow related to this post.

I want to buy a piano for my 8 y.o. niece and I'm wondering whether it is usual to buy a normal-size piano with normal-size keys for her with those little hands. What do people do when teaching piano to a kid? Limit the repertoire? Use specific technics? or use smaller-keyed pianos?

It would have probably been better to start a new post, but I'm a member who wouldn't care - just a warning for others.

Buy a normal one. I'm not really going to go into why, but yeah. That's all you need.

I have what I'd say are moderately large hands (11th or 12th reach depending on the day, and a 10th without thinking about it), and it ain't all rainbows and sunshine. Large chords get a lot easier (yay Rachmaninoff!) but Mozart and friends seem to get nastier. I'm convinced that part of the advantage of younger players is being able to move a lot less even with bad technique in playing quickly.

I've been curious lately about developing new fingerings that are more advantageous to me, a lot of pieces feel very "cramped" when I use the written fingerings (ex: Bach Invention #1, there's a few places where my book has fingerings that repeatedly move thumb under for reasons I don't understand instead of simply stretching...)

In the end, my conclusion on hand size, is that you should be happy with what ya got, and develop a style that best suites you.

Thanks. I myself think that a normal piano would be better.

And sorry for asking a question is someone else's post. I know its a little nasty!

Y'all got me curious, so I checked my span. I can reach an octave easily now, but it was pretty hard a couple of months ago when I started lessons. I'm working on the D Minor arrangement of Moonlight Sonata, and since this piece requires an octave span, working on it has helped stretch my hand for sure. I can now reach a major 9th without too much difficulty, and just barely reach a 10th on the tips of the keys.

What I've been worried about more is the thickness of my fingers (my ring finger is a 10.5 or 11 ring size, 2 and 3 are of course correspondingly larger). I feel very clumsy reaching between black keys (that is, playing D, G, and A up high on the white keys, between the black keys). I still sometimes bump a black key, but it's getting better with practice.



An excellent point. Thanks!!!

Yes, a regular-sized piano. I know kids start with smaller guitars or violins, but pretty much pianos are standard (altho I've heard of miniscule differences in key width). I have very small hands but they've stretched enough that I can do octaves now. But when I couldn't, I adapted For children beginning there's lots of repertoire they can play and learn things from as their hands grow to accomodate larger spans. And their hands are more flexible than some of us old farts, so they will get to octaves and possibly beyond faster.

Good question.

Cathy

This week I went to Bonn to see the house where Beethoven was born. There was an organ and two piano's similar to those he played and I was amazed how small the keyboards were. Especially the organ. The piano keys were about 5 mm smaller each 5 white keys. I always thought key width was fixed. How wrong was I.

My hands are pretty small, but I was born with hyper-flexible (floppy) joints, very double-jointed, so they're stretchable at least.

Like the OP, Ormandi, I am just over 5'8". My span is only 8.75", my golf glove size is "Men's Cadet Small" that means; small hands, short fingers. Now, I am not a beginner, however there is very, very, little classical piano literature that I can't comfortably play. An octave is comfortable, I have to be a little bit careful with a 9th to not catch an adjacent note, I can do an isolated 10th using the very tips of my fingers on the very tips of the keys. Your hand will stretch.

What I really can't do are those LH tenths that occur in some jazz pieces (Art Tatum, et.al.)