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#1648357 - 03/26/11 01:42 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2409
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
I have resorted to computer software and a foot pedal for turning the pages. How you do you feel about the constant necessity to interrupt your playing and turn the pages? Have you developed any special way to deal with this problem that has plagued musicians since the dawn of time?


I am occasionally using my iPad as a reader with PDF public domain sheet music. Rather than using page turning software, I've been using the iBook reader and turning the page with the quick of my finger on the touch screen. It is only a partially satisfactory solution, however. The majority of my music is in large books, or large pieces of sheet music.

I am curious as to how well the foot pedal works for you in page turning.
_________________________
Carl


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#1648379 - 03/26/11 02:25 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: griffin2417]
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: griffin2417
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
I have resorted to computer software and a foot pedal for turning the pages. How you do you feel about the constant necessity to interrupt your playing and turn the pages? Have you developed any special way to deal with this problem that has plagued musicians since the dawn of time?


I am occasionally using my iPad as a reader with PDF public domain sheet music. Rather than using page turning software, I've been using the iBook reader and turning the page with the quick of my finger on the touch screen. It is only a partially satisfactory solution, however. The majority of my music is in large books, or large pieces of sheet music.

I am curious as to how well the foot pedal works for you in page turning.





By using a foot pedal, I am 100% uninterrupted in playing the music. I don't have to lift my hand off the piano for a nanosecond. Of course, my other foot can still use the sustain pedal. As for music scores that are not in PDF format, it only takes a few minutes to scan one into PDF format. But I can see the problem if you have books upon books of scores that are not in PDF format.

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#1648382 - 03/26/11 02:33 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6050
Loc: St. Louis area
How do I cope? One day at a time.

Actually, I've been considering purchasing an USB foot switch such as the one pictured below. Otherwise, I look for a spot that has a hand free for a moment and memorize those measures first.


_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#1648391 - 03/26/11 02:52 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: Damon]
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Damon
How do I cope? One day at a time.

Actually, I've been considering purchasing an USB foot switch such as the one pictured below. Otherwise, I look for a spot that has a hand free for a moment and memorize those measures first.




Hey that's exactly the one that I have. Except mine is much dirtier, thanks to my foot.

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#1648442 - 03/26/11 04:40 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 824
I know some people who are extremely adept at turning pages while playing. However, I am not super quick about it, so sometimes I find it necessary to leave out a note or two. I make sure I use the hand that has the largest space between notes or the least important ones so that if I leave out notes it won't be very many or very obvious. It is also helpful to memorize the measure before and after the page turn so that you can keep playing while the page is turning.

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#1648454 - 03/26/11 05:03 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2309
Loc: NYC
There are many ingenious solutions. Once I had a rubber stamp made with two staves on it. I'd stamp the staves onto a Post-It, then write a few "over-the-page" notes on it and affix the sticky part to the bottom edge of a RH score page. It wasn't permanent and provided a convenient "handle" for turning as well.

Another solution: Use single-sided copies and slide pages right to left. There's almost always space somewhere in a page to slide the page, or even two if necessary. I mark "Turn" at that spot (even though it's really sliding).

For accompanying, there are clever ways of arranging pages. Often recopying to make right pages left and vice versa eliminates problems. Binders help. Creating flyleaves helps....here tape is your friend, especially removable tape in event of taping mistakes.
_________________________
Joe

www.josephkubera.com

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#1648493 - 03/26/11 06:30 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
feebeeliszt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 414
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
It's interesting that no one so far has mentioned getting someone to turn the pages for you. I guess no one wants to volunteer to do that.


Maybe I was just unlucky, but my experience of getting someone to page turn is pretty terrifying. I used to get a page turner who always page turn from the bottom right hand corner (which COMPLETELY blocked the music I need to read). She even laid her arms on the fallboard when she was preparing for a page turn - the fallboard was on the edge of falling onto my hand. I even stopped momentarily in the middle of my performance because of the heart attack she gave me...

I am scared of page turners since then.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/feebeeliszt
The notes I handle no better than many pianists. But the pauses between the notes - ah, that is where the art resides! - Schnabel

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#1648501 - 03/26/11 06:45 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6050
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
Originally Posted By: Damon
How do I cope? One day at a time.

Actually, I've been considering purchasing an USB foot switch such as the one pictured below. Otherwise, I look for a spot that has a hand free for a moment and memorize those measures first.




Hey that's exactly the one that I have. Except mine is much dirtier, thanks to my foot.


How do you like it? (would you buy it again if you had to choose all over?)
_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#1648509 - 03/26/11 07:08 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: Damon]
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
Originally Posted By: Damon
How do I cope? One day at a time.

Actually, I've been considering purchasing an USB foot switch such as the one pictured below. Otherwise, I look for a spot that has a hand free for a moment and memorize those measures first.




Hey that's exactly the one that I have. Except mine is much dirtier, thanks to my foot.


How do you like it? (would you buy it again if you had to choose all over?)


It is the best solution I have for turning pages. It is only about $50, and the software (MusicReader) is also about the same price. I only wish I could use it outside my home too.

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#1648516 - 03/26/11 07:18 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6050
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
Originally Posted By: Damon
How do I cope? One day at a time.

Actually, I've been considering purchasing an USB foot switch such as the one pictured below. Otherwise, I look for a spot that has a hand free for a moment and memorize those measures first.




Hey that's exactly the one that I have. Except mine is much dirtier, thanks to my foot.


How do you like it? (would you buy it again if you had to choose all over?)


It is the best solution I have for turning pages. It is only about $50, and the software (MusicReader) is also about the same price. I only wish I could use it outside my home too.


Was the 'musicreader' software needed? I was under the impression the device could be mapped to the arrow keys. I was going to use it with a PDF reader that I already have.
_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#1648555 - 03/26/11 08:07 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: Damon]
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Damon
Was the 'musicreader' software needed? I was under the impression the device could be mapped to the arrow keys. I was going to use it with a PDF reader that I already have.


You don't need MusicReader, because the footpedal turns pages for any program that has pages, including Adobe Reader. But MusicReader always shows one page ahead, so you can look ahead even when you reach the end of your current page. It also allows you to order your pages for repeats, segnos, codas, etc... But if you are perfectly good at seeing just one page at a time, and don't have to worry about repeats and codas, then you can stick with Adobe Reader. Mind you, I use my 65 inch TV as my monitor. I'm not sure how well you could see with your monitor. MusicReader also allows turning half a page at a time (not needed in my case), in case you need to zoom in on the score.


Edited by MathTeacher (03/26/11 08:13 PM)

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#1648565 - 03/26/11 08:21 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6050
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
Originally Posted By: Damon
Was the 'musicreader' software needed? I was under the impression the device could be mapped to the arrow keys. I was going to use it with a PDF reader that I already have.


You don't need MusicReader, because the footpedal turns pages for any program that has pages, including Adobe Reader. But MusicReader always shows one page ahead, so you can look ahead even when you reach the end of your current page. It also allows you to order your pages for repeats, segnos, codas, etc... But if you are perfectly good at seeing just one page at a time, and don't have to worry about repeats and codas, then you can stick with Adobe Reader. Mind you, I use my 65 inch TV as my monitor. I'm not sure how well you could see with your monitor. MusicReader also allows turning half a page at a time (not needed in my case), in case you need to zoom in on the score.


Okay, thanks, I'm glad I won't be needing it then. If I can't remember what to play for the split second the page turns, then I should just give up anyway. smile
_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#1648634 - 03/26/11 10:36 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
Rui725 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 953
No coping involved because I just accept the imminent failure. hahah.

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#1648679 - 03/26/11 11:59 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: RealPlayer]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4745
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: RealPlayer
There are many ingenious solutions. Once I had a rubber stamp made with two staves on it. I'd stamp the staves onto a Post-It, then write a few "over-the-page" notes on it and affix the sticky part to the bottom edge of a RH score page. It wasn't permanent and provided a convenient "handle" for turning as well.
That's really clever. I'm going to go out and have a stamp made!

Once, my then 18 year old son turned pages for me. We spent a few minutes practicing where to grab the page and when to turn it. I'd nod when it was time for him to get up and nod again for a page turn. It worked perfectly.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1648681 - 03/27/11 12:00 AM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 2409
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
Originally Posted By: griffin2417
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher
I have resorted to computer software and a foot pedal for turning the pages. How you do you feel about the constant necessity to interrupt your playing and turn the pages? Have you developed any special way to deal with this problem that has plagued musicians since the dawn of time?


I am occasionally using my iPad as a reader with PDF public domain sheet music. Rather than using page turning software, I've been using the iBook reader and turning the page with the quick of my finger on the touch screen. It is only a partially satisfactory solution, however. The majority of my music is in large books, or large pieces of sheet music.

I am curious as to how well the foot pedal works for you in page turning.





By using a foot pedal, I am 100% uninterrupted in playing the music. I don't have to lift my hand off the piano for a nanosecond. Of course, my other foot can still use the sustain pedal. As for music scores that are not in PDF format, it only takes a few minutes to scan one into PDF format. But I can see the problem if you have books upon books of scores that are not in PDF format.



I was under the impression that most scanners only handle 8-1/2" x 11" paper. Most scores are larger than that. I am new to all of this. I just returned to piano playing after a 30-year hiatus. So there are new things I am learning about today that were not available in my earlier years.
_________________________
Carl


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#1648942 - 03/27/11 01:26 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Play a couple of bars with one hand and turn the page with the other? Obviously you lose something doing this, but for me it's preferable to the alternative.

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#1649269 - 03/28/11 01:06 AM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 1192
Loc: Nashville, TN
Here's what I do and it works pretty well for me. It's much faster than turning pages. I make copies of all of the pages I need, if there's a repeat, I recopy the page for the next playing. I then line up all of the pages first to last with a small overlap so that each pages is about a half inch in front of the other. I put a pencil behind my stack of music so when I go to grab the page it is slightly lifted off the music rack and easy to grab. When it comes time to turn the page I simply slide it over. I can always see two pages at a time, but the real advantage to this is that once you are on the second page, you can slide it over at any time before you reach the third page. This allows me to turn at the absolute best time, wherever it is on the page. It's kind of hard to explain, but it works great for me. Maybe I should make a video and put it on Youtube.
_________________________
Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.

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#1649295 - 03/28/11 02:26 AM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17795
Loc: Victoria, BC
I appreciate the fact that some are looking for solutions to the minor problem represented by page turns when playing from scores, but it seems to me that some of the solutions are more complex than the simple act of turning the page.

Is the foot switch wireless? If so, how reliable is that wireless technology - we know wireless doesn't always respond as expected. If not wireless, where does the cable go that connects the foot switch to the laptop? It has to be long enough to go to the end of the piano, down to the floor and back again to the pedal lyre, right?

Oh, darn! I forgot to charge the battery on my laptop. "Hey guys, do you have a 37-foot extension handy?"

I love technology as much as the next guy, but not when performing requires me to
- carry more equipment than I had to before
- have to try to read a screen under bright stage lights
- have to remember to program the laptop not to enter sleep mode while I'm playing ... etc.

Don't I have enough to worry about without worrying about whether or not the technology is going to work when I need it to work?

Thanks, but I'll turn my pages myself because I learned to do that.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1649298 - 03/28/11 02:38 AM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5190
Loc: Europe
I agree with Bruce (what's new?)

Thing is that, most decent editions have taken care that rests are found when the page has to turn, or somewhere there... (unless impossible).

when not recording or performing (which should be by memory I reckon), there shouldn't be much problem there...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1649311 - 03/28/11 03:29 AM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MarkH]
J.A.S Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 279
Loc: Warsaw, Poland
Originally Posted By: MarkH
I've long been curious about the option of using an electronic device for display of music, but [...] inflexibility of software with regard to inserting comments on the music have prevented me thus far.

The freeware program PDF Exchange Viewer lets you flexibly insert any comments (e.g. texts, graphics such as arrows or circles, in various colors) to any PDF file. Also good for inserting measure numbers and fingering. Comments may be edited, deleted, or temporarily hidden, also selectively by category.

Here is the link:
http://www.docu-track.com/home/prod_user/pdfx_viewer/
_________________________
J.A.S

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#1649564 - 03/28/11 01:58 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: BruceD]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4745
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: BruceD
I love technology as much as the next guy, but ...Don't I have enough to worry about without worrying about whether or not the technology is going to work when I need it to work?

Thanks, but I'll turn my pages myself because I learned to do that.

Regards,
Maybe I'm a dinosaur, (who also loves technology), but I like paper and I like holding and touching and writing on my paper scores.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1649689 - 03/28/11 05:01 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: BruceD]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6050
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: BruceD
I appreciate the fact that some are looking for solutions to the minor problem represented by page turns when playing from scores, but it seems to me that some of the solutions are more complex than the simple act of turning the page.

Is the foot switch wireless? If so, how reliable is that wireless technology - we know wireless doesn't always respond as expected. If not wireless, where does the cable go that connects the foot switch to the laptop? It has to be long enough to go to the end of the piano, down to the floor and back again to the pedal lyre, right?


The foot-switch I'm considering plugs into the computers USB port. But my reasoning is not just about turning pages, I use the computer to take advantage of the huge number of free scores in the public domain online and to keep my collection in one place where I can quickly access it. With "PDF Exchange Viewer" (also mentioned by J.A.S.), I'm able to "pin" my entire practice list under the file menu and it loads instantly when I select it. In the unlikely event that I'm on stage, I hope to have those pieces memorized. In the slightly likelier event that I'm playing an old folks home, I wouldn't have a problem carrying a spare battery.
Quote:

Oh, darn! I forgot to charge the battery on my laptop. "Hey guys, do you have a 37-foot extension handy?"

I love technology as much as the next guy, but not when performing requires me to
- carry more equipment than I had to before
- have to try to read a screen under bright stage lights
- have to remember to program the laptop not to enter sleep mode while I'm playing ... etc.

Don't I have enough to worry about without worrying about whether or not the technology is going to work when I need it to work?

Thanks, but I'll turn my pages myself because I learned to do that.

Regards,


You're welcome to your paper. I'm hoping that someday a larger "kindle" with a foot-switch page turner will become available. That would eliminate the stage light problem. (the battery problem too!)
_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#1649699 - 03/28/11 05:13 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: Nikolas]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5892
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
...or performing (which should be by memory I reckon)...
Just curious, Nikolas - do you expect performers who play your (new) pieces to memorise them? smile
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1649704 - 03/28/11 05:15 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6092
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
As simple and banal as it sounds, in second-hand books it is much easier to turn the pages... smile

Somebody in the DP forum has also developed a really nice program to turn the pages with the piano pedals... I downloaded the program some time ago. However with my silent piano (which I will have very soon) it would be problematic because the silent piano uses the sostenuto pedal to turn on the silent feature, and that program also uses the sostenuto pedal, so I would not be able to use it... frown
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1649710 - 03/28/11 05:24 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: ChopinAddict]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5892
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
As simple and banal as it sounds, in second-hand books it is much easier to turn the pages... smile
It's a good point, that you need to "train" your books so the pages turn easily. Some are hopeless from the start (my latest pet hate is those fat Hal Leonard vocal anthologies), but by careful opening a few pages at a time from each end most will submit. smile
As long as the second-hand ones aren't too loved (furry at the edges and falling out of the binding) I agree with you! A fair proportion of my music is second-hand.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1649729 - 03/28/11 05:46 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3694
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Some of the earlier posts got me thinking:

There could be an "easy-to-turn" edition of music: each page would have the same music printed on its front and back sides. At any given time you would have two pages of music facing you, and once you make it to the right page, you can turn it at any point until you reach the bottom. These pages would all be bound into a single volume like usual, which would be twice as big, but convenient for page turns.

I don't know if this is a good idea or not.

-Jason

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#1649780 - 03/28/11 07:15 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: beet31425]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5892
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: beet31425
I don't know if this is a good idea or not.
I think it has some merit. There would be more turns though, even if they are conveniently placed. I'm not sure I could break myself of the habit of looking up at the top of the next page after a turn instead of wherever I happened to have been on its companion page - and of course, we'd have fatter books.
But maybe - if music was printed with sensible page turns in the layout, and where this wasn't possible print the duplicate page as per your idea.
In one of the early Classics to Moderns volumes I use with some of my students, they have a piece (I think it's the Schubert B flat scherzo) printed with a foldout page so there's no need to turn. Brilliant.
My pet hate (well, one of them smile ) is a two-page piece printed with a page turn in the middle. whyyyyy???
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1649783 - 03/28/11 07:22 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: beet31425]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17795
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Some of the earlier posts got me thinking:

There could be an "easy-to-turn" edition of music: each page would have the same music printed on its front and back sides. At any given time you would have two pages of music facing you, and once you make it to the right page, you can turn it at any point until you reach the bottom. These pages would all be bound into a single volume like usual, which would be twice as big, but convenient for page turns.

I don't know if this is a good idea or not.

-Jason


Interesting idea! The next best thing I have seen comes from Schirmer (of all people!)[1] in some of their "NEW!"[2] editions where a page between two works is left blank so that the new work turns out to have more advantageous page turns.[3]

[1] and one or two other publishers. Some even indicate that the blank page is a blank page, so that the user knows that it is not a misprint.

[2] Schirmer's all caps and exclamation point, not mine!

[3] Aren't multiple footnotes in one post annoying? smile

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1649787 - 03/28/11 07:26 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: BruceD]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5892
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: BruceD
[3] Aren't multiple footnotes in one post annoying? smile
Not when they're yours. smile
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1649798 - 03/28/11 07:58 PM Re: Turning pages as you play. How do you cope? [Re: MathTeacher]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3694
Loc: Bay Area, CA
currawong,

Double the number of page turns! I can't believe I didn't realize that severe drawback to my proposal! The mathematician in me is embarrassed.

You'd really hate my edition of Prokofiev's Visions Fugitives: Each of the last two pieces is two pages long, starting with the right-hand page. I wish the editor had read BruceD's post about inserting a blank.

On the other end of the spectrum is my lovely Henle edition of Beethoven's op.26: only one annoying page turn in the entire sonata. (The first movement is theme and variations, with every page turn occurring between variations; the second is two pages with no turns; the Funeral March contains the one annoying turn (although it's on repeated material so you can turn it later if you like); and the last movement, five pages, has two turns, but they both occur when one hand has multi-measure rests. Who says Beethoven didn't write for the convenience of the artist?)

-Jason

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