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Topic Options
#1652000 - 03/31/11 08:09 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Stanny]
weldon29 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 83
Originally Posted By: Stanny
I figured the OP was a troll posting a crazy thing to get everyone riled up ;-)
No... And to the question asked, it happened in Malaysia.

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#1652086 - 03/31/11 10:48 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: weldon29]
ghostwind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 48
Loc: USA
If Beethoven was not beaten by his father, would he have produced the same works? I'm not advocating abuse of course, just was wondering while reading this. Different scenario. But yes, in Eastern Europe, striking the student is common practice. No fuss.

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#1652099 - 03/31/11 11:06 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: ghostwind]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3508
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
If Beethoven was not beaten by his father, would he have produced the same works?


Probably not, but there may have been many more Beethovens lost to the world due to crippling low self-esteem brought about by regular beatings. Also, it would be a dubious argument to claim that as long as we got some creative genius out of it, it's acceptable to use abuse - especially since it most likely won't produce any genius at all.

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#1652125 - 04/01/11 12:04 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: ando]
ghostwind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 48
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
If Beethoven was not beaten by his father, would he have produced the same works?


Probably not, but there may have been many more Beethovens lost to the world due to crippling low self-esteem brought about by regular beatings. Also, it would be a dubious argument to claim that as long as we got some creative genius out of it, it's acceptable to use abuse - especially since it most likely won't produce any genius at all.


I said I was of course not advocating it...But, I'm not sure a genius like a Beethoven would lay down. So while of course I'm sure abusive parents only harm their kids, I think a real genius like Beethoven overcomes even the harshest of odds.

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#1652162 - 04/01/11 01:59 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: ghostwind]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3508
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
If Beethoven was not beaten by his father, would he have produced the same works?


Probably not, but there may have been many more Beethovens lost to the world due to crippling low self-esteem brought about by regular beatings. Also, it would be a dubious argument to claim that as long as we got some creative genius out of it, it's acceptable to use abuse - especially since it most likely won't produce any genius at all.


I said I was of course not advocating it...But, I'm not sure a genius like a Beethoven would lay down. So while of course I'm sure abusive parents only harm their kids, I think a real genius like Beethoven overcomes even the harshest of odds.


Yes, I didn't mean to imply that you advocated violence! I think that there are many cases of people developing extraordinary skills in the face of bad situations. There will always be bad situations though. The creative world is certainly riddled with very damaged souls. It may well be one of the biggest sparks of creativity. Certain things need to be right as well though - otherwise they wouldn't have the motivation to do anything.

Anyway, not disagreeing with anything you have said, just thinking out loud.

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#1652256 - 04/01/11 05:44 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: ando]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
If Beethoven was not beaten by his father, would he have produced the same works?


Probably not, but there may have been many more Beethovens lost to the world due to crippling low self-esteem brought about by regular beatings. Also, it would be a dubious argument to claim that as long as we got some creative genius out of it, it's acceptable to use abuse - especially since it most likely won't produce any genius at all.


There are some very dubious assumptions there. Childhood experience is regularly given as an excuse for low self-esteem (not that self-esteem becomes an issue until something occurs that requires THAT as an excuse). But there isn't necessarily a correlation.

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#1652258 - 04/01/11 05:47 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: ghostwind]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
But, I'm not sure a genius like a Beethoven would lay down. So while of course I'm sure abusive parents only harm their kids, I think a real genius like Beethoven overcomes even the harshest of odds.


Does creative genius necessarily imply a strong personality? Some geniuses mat be sociable, others may appear autistic! (Observers often confuse the ability to concentrate with a social disorder:-)

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#1652284 - 04/01/11 07:28 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Exalted Wombat]
ghostwind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 48
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
But, I'm not sure a genius like a Beethoven would lay down. So while of course I'm sure abusive parents only harm their kids, I think a real genius like Beethoven overcomes even the harshest of odds.


Does creative genius necessarily imply a strong personality? Some geniuses mat be sociable, others may appear autistic! (Observers often confuse the ability to concentrate with a social disorder:-)


To me, a real genius, social or introvert, etc., will see to it that he does what he or she needs to. Against all odds. Especially in the arts. I don't believe in "hidden geniuses" in other words. To me, they are not geniuses - a words that gets thrown around too often IMO.

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#1652289 - 04/01/11 07:43 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: weldon29]
SWISSHAT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 43
If this is already repeated, I say sorry.
To the one who suggests it is ok to hit a student, I would then say it is also ok for the student to hit the teacher when the teacher make an error.
We are all humans and can make mistakes.

If hitting (physically) is all right for this teacher, he/she should stay away from any children or student.
Music learning is a nice way to live. To hit is to punish. Music is not about punishment.
That is my personal view.

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#1652290 - 04/01/11 07:44 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: ghostwind]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: ghostwind

To me, a real genius, social or introvert, etc., will see to it that he does what he or she needs to. Against all odds. Especially in the arts. I don't believe in "hidden geniuses" in other words. To me, they are not geniuses - a words that gets thrown around too often IMO.


You have no experience of frustrated geniuses because they aren't productive! How WOULD you have heard of them?

Genius can be very hard to distinguish from craft and application.

Not a subject where fixed opinions are very useful, I think.

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#1652293 - 04/01/11 07:45 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: ghostwind]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11425
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
If Beethoven was not beaten by his father, would he have produced the same works?


Probably not, but there may have been many more Beethovens lost to the world due to crippling low self-esteem brought about by regular beatings. Also, it would be a dubious argument to claim that as long as we got some creative genius out of it, it's acceptable to use abuse - especially since it most likely won't produce any genius at all.


I said I was of course not advocating it...But, I'm not sure a genius like a Beethoven would lay down. So while of course I'm sure abusive parents only harm their kids, I think a real genius like Beethoven overcomes even the harshest of odds.


I don't think Beethoven created his great works because of the abuse, but in spite of. I think he would have composed regardless, it was in him to compose. However, he may have been a much happier human being without the abuse. Who knows? Maybe he would have married and had children of his own to pass on his genes?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1652302 - 04/01/11 07:58 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: kck]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: kck
Originally Posted By: Stanny
I figured the OP was a troll posting a crazy thing to get everyone riled up ;-)


thumb That's what I thought too.


I did too. That's why I asked why the OP was observing this students lesson. It sounded like a made-up situation. He's said the lesson was not in a school. Yet there he is observing this behavior. Yeah right.

So the OP happens to walk by the piano teacher's house, peer into the studio and see all this.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (04/01/11 08:06 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

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#1652303 - 04/01/11 07:59 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Exalted Wombat]
ghostwind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 48
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
Originally Posted By: ghostwind

To me, a real genius, social or introvert, etc., will see to it that he does what he or she needs to. Against all odds. Especially in the arts. I don't believe in "hidden geniuses" in other words. To me, they are not geniuses - a words that gets thrown around too often IMO.


You have no experience of frustrated geniuses because they aren't productive! How WOULD you have heard of them?

Genius can be very hard to distinguish from craft and application.

Not a subject where fixed opinions are very useful, I think.


It's my own opinion. As I said, I don't believe in "hidden geniuses". IMO a true genius rises above all. The burden of proof lies on you, not me smile

PS Most geniuses can be frustrated. This has nothing to do with it.


Edited by ghostwind (04/01/11 07:59 AM)

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#1652313 - 04/01/11 08:18 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: ghostwind]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: ghostwind

It's my own opinion. As I said, I don't believe in "hidden geniuses". IMO a true genius rises above all. The burden of proof lies on you, not me smile

PS Most geniuses can be frustrated. This has nothing to do with it.


OK, so your definition of "Genius" is "Fufilled Genius".

"Proof"? Hardly a useful concept here I think.

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#1652518 - 04/01/11 12:38 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Morodiene]
ghostwind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 48
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
If Beethoven was not beaten by his father, would he have produced the same works?


Probably not, but there may have been many more Beethovens lost to the world due to crippling low self-esteem brought about by regular beatings. Also, it would be a dubious argument to claim that as long as we got some creative genius out of it, it's acceptable to use abuse - especially since it most likely won't produce any genius at all.


I said I was of course not advocating it...But, I'm not sure a genius like a Beethoven would lay down. So while of course I'm sure abusive parents only harm their kids, I think a real genius like Beethoven overcomes even the harshest of odds.


I don't think Beethoven created his great works because of the abuse, but in spite of. I think he would have composed regardless, it was in him to compose. However, he may have been a much happier human being without the abuse. Who knows? Maybe he would have married and had children of his own to pass on his genes?


You're correct, but we would not have the stormy, angry, agitated, passionate music that he created! We don't know what we would have, but most probably not that.

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#1652519 - 04/01/11 12:39 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Exalted Wombat]
ghostwind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 48
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
Originally Posted By: ghostwind

It's my own opinion. As I said, I don't believe in "hidden geniuses". IMO a true genius rises above all. The burden of proof lies on you, not me smile

PS Most geniuses can be frustrated. This has nothing to do with it.


OK, so your definition of "Genius" is "Fufilled Genius".

"Proof"? Hardly a useful concept here I think.


Correct, I don't know of any "unfulfilled" geniuses, unless you are going by academic tests or IQs, which do not define a genius to me. To me a genius is someone that has fulfilled and contributed in some way.

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#1652582 - 04/01/11 02:13 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: weldon29]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Here's my two cents:

It does seem that successful writers/artists have OFTEN had a huge childhood trauma such as the death of a parent. But we're not in charge of what childhood traumas we have to endure.

What would you do? Create a disaster in order to give people the opportunity to pull together as a community? Cause a child to suffer in childhood in hopes that in coping with it he will express himself through art and uplift humanity in the process?

Tolkien used the word "eutastrophy" to describe the good that comes out of a disaster.

Maybe Beethoven would have done less composing if he'd had a girlfriend. So his destiny was not for Elise to say yes.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (04/01/11 03:36 PM)
Edit Reason: added info & spelling
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#1652606 - 04/01/11 02:56 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
It does seem that successful writers/artists have had a huge childhood trauma such as the death of a parent. But we're not in charge of what childhood traumas we have to endure.


"All geniuses are broken". An interesting theory.

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#1652615 - 04/01/11 03:19 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: ghostwind]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11425
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
If Beethoven was not beaten by his father, would he have produced the same works?


Probably not, but there may have been many more Beethovens lost to the world due to crippling low self-esteem brought about by regular beatings. Also, it would be a dubious argument to claim that as long as we got some creative genius out of it, it's acceptable to use abuse - especially since it most likely won't produce any genius at all.


I said I was of course not advocating it...But, I'm not sure a genius like a Beethoven would lay down. So while of course I'm sure abusive parents only harm their kids, I think a real genius like Beethoven overcomes even the harshest of odds.


I don't think Beethoven created his great works because of the abuse, but in spite of. I think he would have composed regardless, it was in him to compose. However, he may have been a much happier human being without the abuse. Who knows? Maybe he would have married and had children of his own to pass on his genes?


You're correct, but we would not have the stormy, angry, agitated, passionate music that he created! We don't know what we would have, but most probably not that.


You really can't say that with any measure of assurance. Why is it that people feel you must have an awful life to be a creative "genius"? What about those great artists who had relatively normal lives? One does not have to be a tortured individual to be artistic?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1652619 - 04/01/11 03:31 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Exalted Wombat]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
It does seem that successful writers/artists have had a huge childhood trauma such as the death of a parent. But we're not in charge of what childhood traumas we have to endure.


"All geniuses are broken". An interesting theory.


Oops my observation was misunderstood. I didn't mean "all" and I didn't say "geniuses" and I didn't say "broken". (Your words are 'genius' and 'broken', not mine.) Just because someone has endured trauma doesn't mean they are broken...it means they've had a life experience that most of us have not.

Don't try to make what I said into a "theory". All I've made is an observation. Feel free to ignore it if it sticks in your craw.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (04/01/11 04:12 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#1652626 - 04/01/11 03:55 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: weldon29]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
I'd say that enduring trauma at a young age causes a child/young adult to have a deeper experience of certain feelings...deeper than someone lacking the experience. A deeper experience of grief, a real sense of how it feels to be shocked, a real understanding of how someone feels when they lose a parent (if they lost a parent) etc.

This experience along with the response to the experience CAN affect a person's desire/ability/need for art.

But yeah, I don't believe the stereotype of the tortured artist. It doesn't describe the typical artist.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#1652635 - 04/01/11 04:11 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11572
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
I'd say that enduring trauma at a young age causes a child/young adult to have a deeper experience of certain feelings...deeper than someone lacking the experience.

Something to think about:
It can also cause someone to shut down, unable to feel or express emotion, and stifle any creative urge. There are also people who were taught abusively, being hit and yelled at, who may have a fair bit of piano skills but can't get themselves to go near a piano. To even play with these ideas - no words.

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#1652637 - 04/01/11 04:16 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: keystring]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
I'd say that enduring trauma at a young age causes a child/young adult to have a deeper experience of certain feelings...deeper than someone lacking the experience.

Something to think about:
It can also cause someone to shut down, unable to feel or express emotion, and stifle any creative urge. There are also people who were taught abusively, being hit and yelled at, who may have a fair bit of piano skills but can't get themselves to go near a piano. To even play with these ideas - no words.


Yes, having emotional problems/issues to deal with is likely a more common response than taking the experience and making great art in response.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#1652695 - 04/01/11 05:41 PM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Morodiene]
ghostwind Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 48
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: ghostwind
If Beethoven was not beaten by his father, would he have produced the same works?


Probably not, but there may have been many more Beethovens lost to the world due to crippling low self-esteem brought about by regular beatings. Also, it would be a dubious argument to claim that as long as we got some creative genius out of it, it's acceptable to use abuse - especially since it most likely won't produce any genius at all.


I said I was of course not advocating it...But, I'm not sure a genius like a Beethoven would lay down. So while of course I'm sure abusive parents only harm their kids, I think a real genius like Beethoven overcomes even the harshest of odds.


I don't think Beethoven created his great works because of the abuse, but in spite of. I think he would have composed regardless, it was in him to compose. However, he may have been a much happier human being without the abuse. Who knows? Maybe he would have married and had children of his own to pass on his genes?


You're correct, but we would not have the stormy, angry, agitated, passionate music that he created! We don't know what we would have, but most probably not that.


You really can't say that with any measure of assurance. Why is it that people feel you must have an awful life to be a creative "genius"? What about those great artists who had relatively normal lives? One does not have to be a tortured individual to be artistic?


I absolutely mean it, and believe it! I didn't say they have to have an awful life to be creative geniuses, I just said that Beethoven's music is a reflection of Beethoven the man - abuse and all. How can it be otherwise? Music is a reflection of oneself and of course his tragedy affected his music - one of his many tragedies. Had his life been a rosy one, his music would for sure have been different. Perhaps just as good, but different for sure. But yeah, when you look at most geniuses, they all have a screw loose for sure! They are wired differently. When it comes to artists, there often IS tragedy too.

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#1652972 - 04/02/11 07:03 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
weldon29 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 83
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Originally Posted By: kck
Originally Posted By: Stanny
I figured the OP was a troll posting a crazy thing to get everyone riled up ;-)


thumb That's what I thought too.


I did too. That's why I asked why the OP was observing this students lesson. It sounded like a made-up situation. He's said the lesson was not in a school. Yet there he is observing this behavior. Yeah right.

So the OP happens to walk by the piano teacher's house, peer into the studio and see all this.
The teacher was my vocal teacher(first lesson) and I was there early so I was able to witness the event. I didn't mentioned it because it was something I did not wish to mention. And what reason have I have to make up the situation anyway?

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#1652995 - 04/02/11 08:31 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: weldon29]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Thanks for the additional information. Now it makes sense. Sorry to have posted my doubts about this. (Although I do think non-teachers at times out of boredom, make up things and post controversial ideas to get people riled up.)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#1653025 - 04/02/11 09:43 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: weldon29]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11425
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: weldon29
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Originally Posted By: kck
Originally Posted By: Stanny
I figured the OP was a troll posting a crazy thing to get everyone riled up ;-)


thumb That's what I thought too.


I did too. That's why I asked why the OP was observing this students lesson. It sounded like a made-up situation. He's said the lesson was not in a school. Yet there he is observing this behavior. Yeah right.

So the OP happens to walk by the piano teacher's house, peer into the studio and see all this.
The teacher was my vocal teacher(first lesson) and I was there early so I was able to witness the event. I didn't mentioned it because it was something I did not wish to mention. And what reason have I have to make up the situation anyway?


If you have observed the teacher teaching in the fashion, don't you expect similar methods to be employed on yourself? I see no good reason to treat a student in this way, and I advise you look for another teacher ASAP.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1653054 - 04/02/11 10:51 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: weldon29]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11572
Loc: Canada
Some excerpts from Musicalfossils, where teacher Matte Harre talks about people who have had abusive teachers and are trying to resume lessons many years later with the aftereffects:

Quote:
It takes time for adults to realize they are safe in the studio. What happens to these students while they are finding out just how safe, is that they are guarded and afraid. When they're afraid they quit breathing normally, they leave their bodies and go into their heads; and to control their feelings, they start thinking frantically. They try too hard.

When I get like this, I start making stupid mistakes that only make things worse. Instructions become incomprehensible. I don't know my left hand from my right. I don't like myself and I want to run away. It's no different with other students.


It doesn't appear to me that the behavior of the childhood teacher has done much to improve that student's musicianship. It's created roadblocks.

Here is another, where a *gifted* adult student has berated herself in the manner that her childhood teacher has done, and they get to the bottom of it:

Quote:
What I realized, and what we then talked about, was that my feeling was the same as hers when she was playing for her teacher as a child. She'd be intently involved in her music making when the teacher would yell and scare her. In the present case, I was the teacher so I could get annoyed and tell her to quit. But when it happened to her, she was the child and the student. If she'd reacted to her teacher as I reacted to her, she would have been called rude and impudent and this particular teacher would have hit her. I've seen this woman make a mistake and cover her head to ward off the impending blow.

How can people be totally involved in their learning if they are waiting for someone to yell at them or hit them? A part of them must always be watching and waiting for the interruption or attack. I don't yell at my students, young or old.

The final irony of this sad tale is that the woman was her teacher's best student. She was working on Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata at the age of 12. Her teacher had never had such a gifted student. Why did she feel the need to treat her student this way? People do not understand that there are problems being a teacher's best student.


This page is worth reading in its entirety.

the bruises they suffered in their education as children ... interfere

I hope that anyone who still romanticizes abuse as some kind of spice leading to artistry will stop doing so.

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#1653061 - 04/02/11 11:01 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Thanks for the additional information. Now it makes sense. Sorry to have posted my doubts about this. (Although I do think non-teachers at times out of boredom, make up things and post controversial ideas to get people riled up.)


I don't think you should be sorry for expressing your doubts. You were honest.
I would add thought that "teachers" are just as likely to fib about their situation or their teacher identity for that matter.

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#1653084 - 04/02/11 11:46 AM Re: What do you think about hitting young students? [Re: Morodiene]
weldon29 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 83
Originally Posted By: Morodiene

If you have observed the teacher teaching in the fashion, don't you expect similar methods to be employed on yourself? I see no good reason to treat a student in this way, and I advise you look for another teacher ASAP.
I actually considered walking out after a while, but as the teacher is quite a well known vocalist here, I decided to stay and see if I can get anything out of learning from him. He's an egoistic douchebag, but it seems that if I learn from him I might be able to get better results than with other vocal couch.( he didn't use the same method of teaching the child for me)

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