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in quite a few violin recordings, i've noticed that some notes on the violin sound quite a bit lower than they ought to.

just now, i found an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra-mRawdH3o&feature=related

a lot of her high notes sound low. but the section starting from ~3:38 a bunch of the double-stops sound so off.

i don't know if it's me? or us pianists so used to hearing pitches in a certain way? or is she really simply off.

btw i love the sound of her violin.

I really don't know what you mean - this is a very fine performance!

Yes, I heard a lot of double-stops in there that are very poorly tuned, to the point of sounding like complete misses of the intended notes. I didn't notice so many bad high notes, but I stopped listening about four minutes into it...

It is kind of odd that the tags don't give the violinist's name.

Julia Fischer!

I think this has come up on another thread, but I've noticed really pronounced tuning differences between experienced string players and piano tuning. I say 'experienced' here meaning 'probably this is on purpose, not by accident'. Less experienced players are often out of tune unintentionally, of course.

Left to themselves, string players don't tend to follow equally-tempered tuning. Whether you could say they're 'out of tune' or note really depends on what tuning system you're referring to.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You heard no such thing. The fact that you don't know who the violinist is says a great deal. You probably think the work she's playing is by Liszt, yes?

Violinists choose different types of intonation, and this is deliberate. There can also be "tone colour" for musical (expressive) effect, though this seems to be more something that was done by older musicians. A general overview of intonation:
Violinmasterclass - intonation types

Choices made
Intonation choices
and the problems of pianos with their equal temperament, and choices there
choices when there is piano accompaniment

The tuning problems in that clip aren't be due to these kinds of temperament issues. When I first read the post, I thought that was probably what it was, but then I listened to the clip...

You're correct, because there AREN'T any tuning problems in the clip.

Why, because she is too famous to have tuning issues, ever?

The fundamental pitch can be confused in our minds with differences in timbre. Try this experiment: alternately say, or better, sing, the vowels ee and aw on the same pitch. After four or five alternations, doesn't aw sound significantly lower than ee?

This phenomenon is something that singers deal with every time they change a vowel, and therefore, they do, in my experience, develop a different set of ears--ears that are not so readily confused by pitch and timbre.

Violinists also deal much more in timbre than do pianists. When they really dig into lower pitched double stops, its almost as if, singer like, the vowel changes to aw, and we may confuse that with intonation.

Most of us learn this distinction without ever thinking about it, probably in childhood. But later in life, when we really start to listen for tone and intonation, we may initially be confused. Our instrument, being the piano, we're not challenged to learn it. If the piano is out of tune, we call the tuner, and that's the end of it. But if we think about it a moment, unless the piano is seriously out of tune, we don't hear it in terms of intonation. The octaves begin to sound cold and icy, for example. It's not really that we hear the intervals as being off.

Tomasino

Cant say I can hear any tuning issues in her double stops. A couple of her harmonics were dodgy though.

I beg to differ. There are a few problems in this performance. It is not to do with temperament. She is just a bit off in several passages.

So, to the people who felt uneasy about this performance, you are not alone!

I've heard much better performances of this work (Paganini Violin Concerto #2). Yes, Julia Fischer is outstanding, but there are passages in that performance that really sound rather average. I'd say Julia is a bit off her game there.

It should be noted that the passage in question in this thread is extraordinarily hard to keep in tune - by any violinist.

Here's a recording by Accardo that sounds better tuned in that double-stopped passage, to my ears.

And I guess, since it is terribly important to some here, I should say that if it was a live video clip of him playing and there was no indication who he was, I wouldn't recognize him. I've known him by reputation for decades and have heard quite a few broadcasts of his playing, but darn it, I just have no clear idea of what he looks like. I really have no idea why visual identification matters so much, but I guess it must, to some.

It is very obvious that this is strictly in equal temperament, since some of the instruments cannot be tuned at all. A violinist at this level is only out of tune by sheer accident, and they dont happen here. So, as have already been mentioned, the out of tune experience must be due to differences in timbre, overtones. Some of the notes here in the low register and some in the very high does not sound good. I usually notice when the fundamental and some of the overtones are not in tune, and this seems to happen here. Then we have the simple fact that a good stereo rig is needed to reproduce very high pitched sounds without distortion.
Anyway, a very enjoyable performance.
cubop

Hahaha, I almost didn't get this joke.

Yeah, I guess A) timber B) that passage is just hard C) distortion due to recording all play a role.

Equal temperament shouldn't be a factor, I agree.

I listened to a few other clips, like the one wr embedded, I find most of them to be more in tune than Julia Fischer.

Although I listen to it more carefully and I really do wonder how much of it is due to distortion... some of the notes have such weird overtones.

I have done a bit of research and a little thinking since I posted, and there are two related factors that are important. Apart from the factor of temperament, the instruments at Paganinis time were tuned somewhat lower, and the violins were different. with different strings at lower tension. And practically all old violins have been modified to take higher string tension. A modified Stradivarius or Guarneri sounds different from one in original condition. Paganini owned and played both, and I am sure he did not have any problems with the sound.Mostly because he was Paganini, and would probably have sounded fantastic on a modern violin. And a composer who is a virtuoso on his instrument might not care too much about anybody else being able to play his music.
Paganinis instruments have been preserved, and very probably in original condition, and were played by the Paganini quartet. Tried to find something with them on Youtube, without success. Some old recordings exist, and it should be interesting to hear how they played Paganinis music.
I am not sure if I have got all the facts correctly, and corrections and comments could be useful.
cubop.

Nothing to do with temperament, tuning, tone quality etc. It is simple and plain: she is really badly off pitch in some passages. I would not expect to hear anything like this at this level. I used to play violin a lot as a child and in my adolescence and I can hear this things very clearly

I'm sorry, but many of you need your ears checked (and some of you simply have absolutely no clue).