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Page 19 of 93 < 1 2 ... 17 18 19 20 21 ... 92 93 >
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#1651455 - 03/31/11 06:34 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
2Shlow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 23

Originally Posted By: custard apple
Originally Posted By: 2Shlow

Originally Posted By: davefrank
don't worry - it wasn't that good

DF


Bless you for consoling me, Dave! @:-D



lololol so it's taken you no time to work out that Dave is the biggest joke artist !
When you are next overseas, check out the Eric Dolphy one for a laugh. The bird noises are pretty hilarious.


Thanks for the suggestion, but to tell the truth, I have not been outside Israel in over 28 years, and I hope I never go abroad again. There is no better place to be that I know of (Israel's bad press is not true!).

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#1651594 - 03/31/11 10:40 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
2Shlow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 23

More questions:

I really like Dave Frank's style of teaching in JOI, which seeks to greatly enrich the student's toolbox even from the very start. For example, I noted with pleasure that JOI actually uses root position and second inversion left-hand voicings instead of ignoring them as most books do (indeed why not use all the voicings that are possible and tasteful?).

Why is it that most jazz books seem to ignore those left-hand voicings that are not built up from either the 3rd or 7th at the bottom?

It was surprising to find 4th inversions, which JOI also uses, as at 1 JOI page 77 in the second to the last line, where the voicings have a b9th on the bottom followed by the 9th. Has anybody discovered any 5th or 6th inversions in JOI?

Another point is that Dave is not afraid of jumping around a bit, whereas others seem to be obsessed with minimal left-hand movement. For example, in Lesson 2's The Joy of C (in C minor, of course) in the 4th and 8th lines there are jumps from c down to g and then up to d flat, when smooth movement from c to b to d flat would be expected for minimal movement.

The question is why do other teachers/books teach against such "needless" movement that actually sounds good? Perhaps only Dave Frank himself knows.

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#1651614 - 03/31/11 11:07 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
Thank you very much for such an in-depth analysis of a book series I dashed off in an afternoon. (Not haha.) Sometimes something that is a cool new discovery (like rootless voicings) becomes a "new rule" after awhile. I like to tell folks that the ear is the final decision-maker when it come to music. We have inherited a huge legacy of music theory, piano/jazz theory, etc., we can use it all:)

It's great to study lots of possibilities (like the chord lists)and then make personal choices as to what you want to hear based on how the sounds strike you. This is how you develop your own sound/style, which is the point of playing jazz.

This recalls the famous review of one of Mahler's symphony:"Mahler's music is alot better than it sounds".

DF

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#1651622 - 03/31/11 11:17 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Hey 2Shlow,

Most books have to be interesting to read for people that will not play them.
For example, the Levine book is great to read.
Metaphor for the musicians is a favorite of mine, and a great book to read also.

But reading the book simply won't teach you how to play. It's mostly theory. You're left with tons of tips on how to use exotic scales, but how often are you taught the slow process of learning how to play?

I'm not sure Dave still has slots for students, or if you know that he teaches via Skype, but the idea is that if you study with a great teacher, be it Dave or another, you probably won't be skipping the foundation. That's what the joi is about. Learning the foundation you need to be able to later play anything.
Dave will teach you Bill Evans stylings if that's what you like, McKenna, or Bud Powell, or McCoy.
But regardless, the foundation's gotta be there. That involves good technique and solid time and flow.

As for inversions, I've never really looked at them like that. To me, chords can be arranged in just about any way. It's one of those interesting things because you learn some, and then if you stick to them long enough they become part of your tool box.
Chords don't always have to fall under the inversion thing either, for example:
E A D G works good as a Cmaj7 voicing.
In places, he'll use very rich voicing, like F G A C E for an Fmaj7. Sometimes, that really sounds great.

If you play the same thing the same way for too long, it will get boring. At the same time, the listener likes the hear the same thing multiple time. So you gotta find a right balance.

Notice how Dave mostly puts the chords as 'block', meaning they fall on beat 1 or 3 and last 2 or 4 measures? I think this is a way to focus on one thing at a time.

It's good to hear you're enjoying the method. I've been enjoying it a great deal, too.

++

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#1651665 - 03/31/11 12:21 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: davefrank]
2Shlow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 23

Originally Posted By: davefrank
Thank you very much for such an in-depth analysis of a book series I dashed off in an afternoon. (Not haha.)

DF


If you just let the juices flow one afternoon, then that was surely after decades of preparations, and like your improvs, it came off well. Some of the best writing is not necessarily done in a slow painful way but in a fast joyful way, especially in music.

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#1651685 - 03/31/11 12:39 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
im kidding. Those books took 4 years of nonstop work, most difficult thing I ever did:)

DF

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#1651760 - 03/31/11 02:34 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: davefrank]
2Shlow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 23

Whether done in 4 years or an afternoon, it is certainly fine music, while still approachable by us beginners.

But I think I found another small mistake in Lesson 3's "A Froggy Day", which is notated in the final chord with an f in the left hand, but it is not actually sounded on the recording where there is a pure all 4ths chord with an f in the right hand only (held over from the previous bar).

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#1651838 - 03/31/11 03:58 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: 2Shlow]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
I'm interested in how the book got written. Dave, I imagine it came straight out of teaching, is that right? Couldn't find the book you wanted for students?

Originally Posted By: 2Shlow

But I think I found another small mistake in Lesson 3's "A Froggy Day", which is notated in the final chord with an f in the left hand, but it is not actually sounded on the recording where there is a pure all 4ths chord with an f in the right hand only (held over from the previous bar).


Personally I was a bit more perplexed by the B natural in this chord. wink

But now I've fallen in love with precipitation. 3hearts
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


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www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1651851 - 03/31/11 04:12 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
that B natural in Foggy Day is a zinger of a typo, incredible!

The books came out of the opportunity to travel all over the marble, and seeing what aspiring improvisers needed, which for the most part, was a coherent, step-by-step approach to act as a bridge between the typical classical training and improv. The other popular jazz piano books were great, but I thought a more limited, but complete series of lessons geared to developing certain foundation skills would be useful.

I was friends in Boston with my co-author John Amaral, who had a relationship with Hal Leonard, and John who asked me if I'd like to develop the book concept. 4 years and 40 lbs. later it was done. The books put in writing the method of teaching I had been doing for a long time, some of which (specifically the chord lists and singing master solos) included some of the material Lennie gave me.

thanks for askin

DF

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#1651855 - 03/31/11 04:14 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
thumbs, maybe you should write an arrangement of " I fall in love too easily"

hehe

DF

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#1651861 - 03/31/11 04:25 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: davefrank]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Interesting to know the history. There is always in element of trust. As a learner, I don't expect results to be immediate. So I need to bring some patience to the equation.

Originally Posted By: davefrank
thumbs, maybe you should write an arrangement of " I fall in love too easily"



Alas, tis another standard I'm not familiar with.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1651871 - 03/31/11 04:39 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
you didn't get my joke

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#1651874 - 03/31/11 04:43 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: davefrank]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: davefrank
you didn't get my joke


Ha! Gotcha! laugh
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1651885 - 03/31/11 04:58 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)

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#1651918 - 03/31/11 05:47 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
yay!

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#1651941 - 03/31/11 06:16 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Beautiful. Everywhere I turn, yet more music I don't know.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1652669 - 04/01/11 04:57 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
I have a question about skid dat de dat. I've been listening to this as and when, and have just sat down with Transcribe and was about to find a section and learn it. I'm trying to work out the structure of the thing. Seems to be divided into mostly 6 bar sections - two bars of solo, then 4 of ensemble. I've not come across this before - is it common, or is it just it's own thing?
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#1652897 - 04/02/11 01:46 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2266
Loc: Sydney
Sorry Ten, I honestly don't know. I remember Skid Dat de Dat was a difficult one for me, I have to admit that I didn't learn this one too well.

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#1652898 - 04/02/11 01:49 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2266
Loc: Sydney
Hi everyone
For the last 2 weeks of my improv practice, I've been working on switching scales. What do you think of my attempt at C maj for 4 measures then A min for the next 4 measures ? It's at 84 bpm.

http://www.box.net/shared/fuohe9d0ep

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#1652908 - 04/02/11 02:19 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
the line was nice, but you have to change the
LH progression to Bm7b5 /E7 /Am6 /Am6/ when switching to the A min scale

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#1652922 - 04/02/11 03:59 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2266
Loc: Sydney
Thanks very much Dave for your feedback.
You must be real looking forward to the grand opening of your new yoga-jazz place this weekend. Can't wait for your masterclass on Lennie Tristano.

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#1653265 - 04/02/11 06:10 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Sorry Ten, I honestly don't know. I remember Skid Dat de Dat was a difficult one for me, I have to admit that I didn't learn this one too well.


Thanks. I'll find something to do and do it.

It's a funny one, it sounds like a dirge.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1653270 - 04/02/11 06:15 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Hi everyone
For the last 2 weeks of my improv practice, I've been working on switching scales. What do you think of my attempt at C maj for 4 measures then A min for the next 4 measures ? It's at 84 bpm.

http://www.box.net/shared/fuohe9d0ep


Custard, that sounds quite free and natural. Well done! How long have you been using Dave's book?

btw, I found the most amazing website here:
http://www.ralphpatt.com/index.html

He has his own fake book ('Vanilla book') which is simpler and clearer than anything I've seen. In fact it's a lot like what I've been making myself. He also has lists of standards that modulate in certain ways, and a whole load of backing tracks.

Well worth checking out.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1653329 - 04/02/11 09:10 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2266
Loc: Sydney
Thanks Ten ! I'm happy coz it's my one year anniversary of JOI.

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#1653546 - 04/03/11 07:17 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Thanks Ten ! I'm happy coz it's my one year anniversary of JOI.


Congratulations! I'll be happy to be doing what you're doing in a year's time.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1653567 - 04/03/11 08:03 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2266
Loc: Sydney
That's very nice of you Ten !
I look forward to your treatment of Skid da de Dat. The song reminds me of a fun procession, I think the ensemble sounds wonderful.

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#1653594 - 04/03/11 09:10 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Cus,

That was a nice line you posted.
You're getting a hang of it.

Where are you on everything?
Lesson #, compositions, improv, etc...

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#1653881 - 04/03/11 05:57 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple
That's very nice of you Ten !
I look forward to your treatment of Skid da de Dat.


Dang! I was going to give that one (as my mother would say) a lick and a promise.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1653938 - 04/03/11 07:28 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2266
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: knotty
Cus,

That was a nice line you posted.
You're getting a hang of it.

Where are you on everything?
Lesson #, compositions, improv, etc...


Thanks Knots !

Improv
Yesterday I did my improv practice with the B min7 b5/ E7/ A min6/ A min6 progression and it sounded much better. Today I will spend some more time working on this progression.
Tomorrow I will go onto the F maj/ D min progressions.

Singing
I've learnt 10 phrases of Bird's Perhaps. I'm enjoying it a lot.

Hanon
I'm being severely challenged by Lesson 20 @ 144 bpm. The next recording I do for you will be at 152 bpm.

JOI Tunes
Blues @ 88 bpm.
The jazz tune Sky Line @ 76 bpm. I really like Dave's tune, do you remember the standard it's from ?

Bill Evans' composition
I play Very Early Very Badly.

Arrangement
For When I Fall in Love, I've done 3 sections now (A1, B, A2) and have C to go.

Extremely exciting news
I have just booked my ticket for the Sonny Rollins 80th birthday concert !!!!! I am in row M 10 metres from the front.






Edited by custard apple (04/03/11 07:30 PM)

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#1653964 - 04/03/11 08:27 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Wow Cus,

I wish I was as dedicated as you are.
152 for these tough hanons is getting pretty fast, that's great.
Sky Line is based on Blue Skies.

I'm happy that you'll get to see Sonny Rollins, I know he's your favorite. You're gonna have a blast.

Ten,
The vanilla changes look good. My uncle used to make his own just like that. He'd be transcribing tunes all the time, even while laying on the beach. That was awesome.

++

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