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#1657746 - 04/10/11 03:46 PM Please, help - disklavier
VladiPro Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 6
Hello everyone, i am father little girl wich learn play a piano. Few days ago i buyed used upright piano Yamaha DU1, as you know it is a disclavier, but this piano without controller DKC-550, my seller lost it. I do not plan use this piano like Disklavier, but i have interest for silent mode for evening and early morning. We live in big house with many flats, and not all like listen a piano sound every morning. May be anybody know, can i connect a macbook to this piano without DKC-550 for using computer like tones generator. Also, may be you have other ideas for my case. Sorry for my English, in Russian i write better. Best regards, Vladi P

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#1658070 - 04/11/11 05:59 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
If I'm not mistaken the DUI did not have the disklavier playback function / capability. I believe it just had the stand alone silent feature components. In order for you to retrofit the silent feature on a disklavier uprt., you need a midi tone (sound) module along with the midi record strip. You also need an aftermarket mute rail. If it is a DUI it should have this silent system hardware already installed. A disklavier uprt.is not the same as a piano with the silent system hardware.

If you have a disklavier uprt, you can convert this fairly easy in that you already have the midi record strip. on the disklavier. You may need the controller to plug the tone module in via midi. Now the 50" Yamaha uprts. did not have the midi ports in the 2" rack mount disklavier controller but underneath the keybed.
You may be able to plug a midi tone module directly in these midi ports without the disklavier controller. You will need a seperate power supply for the tone generator. You plug the headphones into the tone generator. I really need to know exactly what uprt. you have whether gray market or not. The Yamaha dealer should know this stuff. Good luck!
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#1658329 - 04/11/11 03:19 PM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
VladiPro Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 6
Dear Pianobroker, thank you a lot. Few days ago i have applied to yamaha representative but haven't received any reply, may be not so quickly.
I do have a real Yamaha but without disklavier controller. The link is attached.(http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-i...u1a/?mode=model). As you can see on a picture this piano with controller in the right part on the upper lid of a piano. I have only a VGA (like for a monitor) socket for this controller. Can i remake this socket to normal MIDI socket and input it to my macbook via E-mu 0404 and use Garageband like a software for disklavier. So many questions...
I think that the electric cirquit diagram can help a lot. And the clear understanding - what protocol is used -MIDI, USB or Yamaha has it's own protocol? If someone have any idea - where to get the above information? Thank you one more.
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#1658808 - 04/12/11 06:58 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
athomik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 299
Loc: England
The DU1(A) is a full function Disklavier. It will not work without the control unit. If it is a late model piano (after 2000), the control unit was a DKC55RCD. This unit was available as a separate product, so it may be possible to track one down. If the controller was not this model, the only way to get a new one would be to build one from spare parts.

If the connecting cable on your piano has a 16-pin D-type connector, you can connect the new DKC850 controller, which would bring it up to near the current Disklavier E3 model.
_________________________
Adrian Thomas
Service Engineer - Hybrid Pianos & Strings

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#1658821 - 04/12/11 08:01 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
VladiPro Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 6
My piano was born in 2003. As i understood, a protocol wich use Yamaha for connecting a piano with a control unit is special Yamaha's protocol, but not midi. How i thought: i can find in a 16-pin D-type connector two wires are for MIDI and connect its to other tones generator and use the piano like midi keyboard for silent mode. And now i have a problem to buy the control unit, because i looking for and can not find it in shops and i think that cost it will be much bigger, than cost of my piano. Any case, thanks very much to everyone for help.
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#1658865 - 04/12/11 10:16 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
athomik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 299
Loc: England
As well as lines for record and playback data, there are several control lines without which the piano won't even switch on properly. If you can't find a DKC55RCD controller second-hand, the DKC850 is really your only viable route to go for.
_________________________
Adrian Thomas
Service Engineer - Hybrid Pianos & Strings

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#1659011 - 04/12/11 03:14 PM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
VladiPro, Sorry!You guys were right as for the DU1 being a disklavier. I should have known better with the "D" prefix. I got it mixed up mdl. wise with the MP1.

Even if you could find a DKC55RCD, you would still need an aftermarket mute rail and some type of sound source for the conversion for the silent mode,correct?
I'm just wondering if the DKC550 would still work for the midi functions and ?. I'm wondering what shortcomings or incompatibility would there be using the DKC550 for the DU1A.
The DKC550 has that same VGA connector. Sorry,I have limited disklavier knowledge in that I mainly deal with gray market disklavier compatibility issues.


Edited by pianobroker (04/12/11 04:48 PM)
_________________________
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#1659438 - 04/13/11 11:28 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: pianobroker]
athomik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 299
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: pianobroker

Even if you could find a DKC55RCD, you would still need an aftermarket mute rail and some type of sound source for the conversion for the silent mode,correct?
I'm just wondering if the DKC550 would still work for the midi functions and ?. I'm wondering what shortcomings or incompatibility would there be using the DKC550 for the DU1A.
The DKC550 has that same VGA connector. Sorry,I have limited disklavier knowledge in that I mainly deal with gray market disklavier compatibility issues.


The DU1A, which is the Mark III with the DKC55RCD, should already have the mute rail for the silent function installed. The control boxes are known to get lost occasionally, but I've yet to see a piano where someone has taken out the silent system. If a DKC850 is fitted, the silent function should work fine.

BTW, after working with Disklaviers since they came out in 1986/87, I have never heard of a DKC550.
_________________________
Adrian Thomas
Service Engineer - Hybrid Pianos & Strings

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#1659737 - 04/13/11 09:38 PM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Actually,I've never seen a DKC550 either. I assume they exist with the onboard CD drive, MarkIII upgrade,XG tone generator etc. Too new for me.I've never seen one on the used market. What are the chances of an older MKII DKC100 controller working with that DU1A?
_________________________
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100+Steinway and M&H grands
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#1659842 - 04/14/11 02:36 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
VladiPro Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 6
I've never seen a DKC550 too, but i downloaded manual DKC55 from internet. It is Yamaha's control unit for Mark III with playback function only.
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#1660039 - 04/14/11 12:03 PM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
athomik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 299
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: VladiPro
I've never seen a DKC550 too, but i downloaded manual DKC55 from internet. It is Yamaha's control unit for Mark III with playback function only.


The playback only version of the Disklavier MKIII was only avialable as a small grand piano. Your DU1A was a full function (record & playback) model. The controller for this is definitely the DKC55RCD.

BTW, the DKC100 suggested above will not work with your piano. It only has a 9-pin DIN connector for starters but, basically, the control unit from one model of Disklavier will not work on a different model.

In the end, your only option would be to track down an old DKC55RCD or buy a DKC850. I believe the DKC850 is not available in Russia, but you might be able to get one from Europe via the internet. I'm not quite sure if the European-wide warranty extends to Russia. Technical support via email/phone won't be a problem - especially from Yamaha Music Europe in the UK.


Edited by athomik (04/14/11 12:04 PM)
_________________________
Adrian Thomas
Service Engineer - Hybrid Pianos & Strings

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#1660432 - 04/15/11 03:36 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
You are definitely correct as for the different era disklavier controllers being only compatible for their proprietory mdl. Yamaha pianos BUT I have found different era /combination of disklavier components to still work.
One can interface an external Yamaha CD drive into an ancient wagon grand via midi and it will work. The discontinued DSR-1 via both the midi ports and or the 9 pin, controllers will upgrade any of those ancient disklavier mdls. I've interfaced the DKC100 with ancient gray market Yamaha uprt.disklaviers which used that PC100 controller with that same 9 pin connector. But the newer stuff is probably proprietory only for THAT unit nowadays, as you say.

I'm willing to bet Yamaha USA has that DKC55RCD in their shop in that, that unit in the USA is still under the 10 yr.factory warranty.


Edited by pianobroker (04/15/11 03:38 AM)
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

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#1660454 - 04/15/11 05:20 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: pianobroker]
athomik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 299
Loc: England
Neither the DSR-1 nor the DCD-1 have a D-type connector. They could only be connected to a Disklavier via MIDI which, in this case, wouldn't work.

It may be possible to order the DKC55RCD as a spare part(part number QN260180)from Japan(check with your local Yamaha Branch, details are on http://ru.yamaha.com/ru/support/)It may no longer be stocked and it will be expensive - although probably no more expensive than the DKC850, but the DKC850 would update a Disklavier MarkIII to the latest Disklavier E3 standard, with Network and Internet capabilities.


Edited by athomik (04/15/11 05:24 AM)
_________________________
Adrian Thomas
Service Engineer - Hybrid Pianos & Strings

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#1660466 - 04/15/11 05:49 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
VladiPro Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 6
I've found the DKC-850 in Japanes online store. Link http://en.item.rakuten.com/suganami/pdkc850/. Is it what i need for my disklavier?
_________________________
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#1660470 - 04/15/11 06:13 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
athomik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 299
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: VladiPro
I've found the DKC-850 in Japanes online store. Link http://en.item.rakuten.com/suganami/pdkc850/. Is it what i need for my disklavier?


That unit will turn your DU1A into a virtual DU1E3. The only difference you may find is that ppp playing won't be quite as subtle as on a new DU1E3. You will also not be able to update the firmware in the PK-CTL circuit board (located in the key drive unit under the keyboard) which controls the sensors and key/pedal drive, but you probably will never need this facility anyway. You will also need to get a Russian style mains lead for the power adaptor (standard figure-of-8 as found on cassette recorders, etc.)The power adaptor will work on any mains voltage.
One thing to be aware of is that you probably will not be covered by the Japanese warranty. I would check with Yamaha in Russia, you might be able to source a DKC850 from Europe and be covered by the European-wide warranty.

Saying that, the price you found is really good compared to the UK, so you may save yourself enough on the deal to cover any (unlikely) repair costs over the first 2 years, which is the warranty period in Europe.


Edited by athomik (04/15/11 06:17 AM)
_________________________
Adrian Thomas
Service Engineer - Hybrid Pianos & Strings

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#1661073 - 04/16/11 05:00 AM Re: Please, help - disklavier [Re: VladiPro]
VladiPro Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 6
Adrian, thank you. Now i have so many information that i like an engeneer from Yamaha's company. It is good forum and good guys here. Thanks to everyone.
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