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#1657594 - 04/10/11 09:16 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: Ridicolosamente]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19642
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Ridicolosamente
I think the "knowledge problem" discussion is condescending... Step down from your pedestals.
Exactly. Highly condescending and arrogant. Making a statement about other posters' "knowledge problem" has nothing to do with "having balls" but everything to do with being unpleasant. Another example of how the internet encourages behavior that most would not exhibit in face to face conversation.


Edited by pianoloverus (04/10/11 09:21 AM)

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#1657635 - 04/10/11 11:08 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
dannylux Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1821
Loc: Connecticut
One of the finest pieces of music composed in the Western Hemisphere is Balada Mexicana by Manuel Maria Ponce:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3KUkEaQvqo

A superb performance by Jorge Osorio.

I think you can clearly hear what Ponce was known for: combining French Impressionism and the Romantic exuberance of Liszt with Mexican folk songs.

The Coda is as dramatic as they come.


Mel
_________________________
My Recordings

"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. What you will receive in return varies. But it really has no connection with what you give. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn

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#1657640 - 04/10/11 11:22 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: pianoloverus]
thalbergmad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 181
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Exactly. Highly condescending and arrogant. Making a statement about other posters' "knowledge problem" has nothing to do with "having balls" but everything to do with being unpleasant. Another example of how the internet encourages behavior that most would not exhibit in face to face conversation.


Knowledge can sometimes come across as condescending and arrogant, especially to those who do not have it, but I would agree that perhaps it could have been worded better.

If you think that Medtner is a lesser known composer, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but it is going attract comments.

I would say this to your face if I met you.

Thal
_________________________
I'm inclined to agree with Thal

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#1657645 - 04/10/11 11:36 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: thalbergmad]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19642
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: thalbergmad
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Exactly. Highly condescending and arrogant. Making a statement about other posters' "knowledge problem" has nothing to do with "having balls" but everything to do with being unpleasant. Another example of how the internet encourages behavior that most would not exhibit in face to face conversation.


Knowledge can sometimes come across as condescending and arrogant, especially to those who do not have it, but I would agree that perhaps it could have been worded better.

If you think that Medtner is a lesser known composer, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but it is going attract comments.

I would say this to your face if I met you.

Thal
My comment about saying something to someone's face was about calling something a "knowledge problem". That's far different from saying you don't think Medtner belongs in the "lesser known" category. Knowledge isn't ever arrogant IMO. How one expresses oneself is what can be arrogant.

I would say, however, that Medtner is a lesser known composer by most reasonable definitions of that phrase. "Lesser known" is not the same as unknown as others have said. "Known" doesn't necessariy mean "have heard his name", although even under that defnition Medtner would be "lesser known", I think.

How many, except Medtner specialists, are even familiar(as in having heard once) with say 80% of his piano works? But if the same question is asked about Chopin, Beethoven, Mozart, Schumann, Schubert, Brahms, Debussy, Ravel, Rachmaninov, Schumann, etc., the number of people would be far greater.


Edited by pianoloverus (04/10/11 11:45 AM)

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#1657651 - 04/10/11 11:46 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: pianoloverus]
thalbergmad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 181
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

I would say, however, that Medtner is a lesser known composer


Great, I really am happy for you.

Thal
_________________________
I'm inclined to agree with Thal

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#1657654 - 04/10/11 11:58 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Are we confusing "lesser Known" with "lesser"?

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#1657761 - 04/10/11 04:07 PM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: thalbergmad]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8026
Originally Posted By: thalbergmad

If you think that Medtner is a lesser known composer, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but it is going attract comments.



I have been to a lot of piano recitals and orchestral concerts featuring a piano solo in my life, and not once has Medtner been on the program. Nor have I ever seen any Medtner on the program of the concerts that I might have potentially attended, but didn't. If that doesn't mean he is lesser known (than the mainstream that is implied by the phrase), I can't imagine what you think the criteria are.

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#1657823 - 04/10/11 06:19 PM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: wr]
thalbergmad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 181
Loc: England
I have attended two concerts where Medtner has been played and could well attend another in July. I think I have also seen his name come up on some Powell London recitals, but I might be wrong.

Never heard any Saint Saens on my travels, so I guess he must be lesser.

If the recitals you have attended were the only ones in the World, you might well think he is lesser known from your experiences. To me, he is not.

Thal


Edited by thalbergmad (04/10/11 06:22 PM)
_________________________
I'm inclined to agree with Thal

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#1657840 - 04/10/11 07:31 PM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: thalbergmad]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8026
Originally Posted By: thalbergmad
I have attended two concerts where Medtner has been played and could well attend another in July. I think I have also seen his name come up on some Powell London recitals, but I might be wrong.

Never heard any Saint Saens on my travels, so I guess he must be lesser.

If the recitals you have attended were the only ones in the World, you might well think he is lesser known from your experiences. To me, he is not.



Amazing that you have never been in the vicinity of a Saint-Saens piano concerto. I have. But I would say that the level of Saint-Saens being known is more dependent on the ever-popular Sym. 3 and perhaps Carnival of the Animals. His solo piano music is not particularly well known, with the exception of perhaps an etude or two.

But regarding Medtner, if the recitals you have attended were the only ones in the World, you might well think he is better known from you experiences. To me, he is not.

But I don't think that simply having heard something by a composer once or twice in concert necessarily gets them off the lesser known list. It is better than not hearing them at all, certainly, but a scattering of performances, often by specialists, doesn't make a composer well-known. I have heard Alkan in concert at least twice, but AFAIAC, he's still "lesser known".



Edited by wr (04/10/11 08:01 PM)

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#1658041 - 04/11/11 03:27 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: wr]
thalbergmad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 181
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: wr


But regarding Medtner, if the recitals you have attended were the only ones in the World, you might well think he is better known from you experiences. To me, he is not.


I am overjoyed that we appear to have established that "lesser known" seems to vary due to ones personal experiences.

Thal
_________________________
I'm inclined to agree with Thal

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#1658046 - 04/11/11 03:40 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: thalbergmad]
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5590
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: thalbergmad
Never heard any Saint Saens on my travels, so I guess he must be lesser.


No you didn't...

Serious?
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1658049 - 04/11/11 03:52 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: dannylux]
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5590
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: dannylux
N. Vaneyev wrote the most stupendous transcription of Fritz Kreisler's "Praeludium and Allegro in the Style of Pugnani".

Thanks! I didn't even know such a transcription existed! But it sounds really hard.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1658101 - 04/11/11 07:38 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: AZNpiano]
thalbergmad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 181
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: thalbergmad
Never heard any Saint Saens on my travels, so I guess he must be lesser.


No you didn't...

Serious?


The only Saint Saens I have ever heard in concert is the Horowitz transcription of the Dance Macabre. Admittedly, I do not attend a vast amount of concerts so I must bow to the greater experiences of other forum members.

Thal
_________________________
I'm inclined to agree with Thal

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#1658102 - 04/11/11 07:41 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: AZNpiano]
dannylux Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1821
Loc: Connecticut
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: dannylux
N. Vaneyev wrote the most stupendous transcription of Fritz Kreisler's "Praeludium and Allegro in the Style of Pugnani".

Thanks! I didn't even know such a transcription existed! But it sounds really hard.

You're very welcome.

There's an even more difficult transcription of the piece by Jan Holcman.


Mel
_________________________
My Recordings

"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. What you will receive in return varies. But it really has no connection with what you give. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn

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#1662233 - 04/18/11 10:14 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 801
Loc: Netherlands
Some of the Henselt etudes are fantastic in my opinion.



Any insights on the difficulty of this piece?


Edited by babama (04/18/11 10:17 AM)

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#1662298 - 04/18/11 11:40 AM Re: Great pieces by lesser known composers? [Re: thalbergmad]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8934
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: thalbergmad

The only Saint Saens I have ever heard in concert is the Horowitz transcription of the Dance Macabre.

Come to think of it, I haven't heard that much Saint-Seans in concert either except for the G minor concerto and a sizzling performance of the D minor violin sonata. Someday I would love to see a real slap-up production of Samson & Delilah.
_________________________
Jason

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