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#1663571 - 04/20/11 12:08 PM Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best
Marky Mark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Chigwell, Essex, UK
Hello everyone,My second post to the forum now in the correct area,

Im keen to get a decent digital piano, that will last but more importantly resemble as close as possible to a proper grand piano.

My searches have led me to either the N3 or the RG3, initially i was going to go for an RG1F, however after seeing one in the flesh recently decided against. (Shocking build quality\texture, for a high price)..

Does anyone know technically which is the better piano ?

Thanks everyone


Edited by Marky Mark (04/21/11 05:59 PM)
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Avant Grand N3

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#1663577 - 04/20/11 12:12 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9153
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Apologies in advance for not answering your question, but how about the V-Grand?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1663603 - 04/20/11 12:55 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Marky Mark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Chigwell, Essex, UK
hmm, decisions, decisions... is the V Grand much better than the RG3 though... ,and would you compare the Vgrand to the N3... ?


lol all i was is the best grand digital piano.....
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Avant Grand N3

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#1663609 - 04/20/11 01:09 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Originally Posted By: Marky Mark
hmm, decisions, decisions... is the V Grand much better than the RG3 though... ,and would you compare the Vgrand to the N3... ?


lol all i was is the best grand digital piano.....

Yeah the V-Grand is much better than the RG3, but I think I'd rather have the RG-3F over the V-Grand. Maybe not over the N3. I'd have to sit down and play both the RG-3F and N3 then decide from there.

The RG-3F is the RG-3 with the SuperNATURAL sound engine plus Roland's top of the line PHA III Ivory keys. I prefer Roland's SN piano sounds over their V-Piano/Grand modeled piano sounds. I think for the money, the RG-3F is one of the best digital grands made.
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#1663653 - 04/20/11 02:05 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Don't rule out the AvantGrand N1. It has the same exact action of the N3 for about half the price.
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#1663755 - 04/20/11 04:41 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Only thing is that neither the N1 nor the N2 have the grand piano design the OP is looking for.

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#1663766 - 04/20/11 04:56 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: Marky Mark
My searches have led me to either the N3 or the RG3... Does anyone know technically which is the better piano?
Technically, in terms of the sound system spec, it looks like the RG-3F is a stereo setup with 2x60W power amps driving 2x20cm and 2x5cm speakers.

On the other hand, the N3 is a 4-channel setup with 10x22W, 4x30W and 2x80w power amp system driving 4x16cm, 4x13cm, 4x2.5cm speakers and 4xtransducer.

But better specs on the sound system does not automatically mean better piano if there are other criteria that may be more important to you.

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#1663801 - 04/20/11 05:51 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Marky Mark
Hello everyone,My second post to the forum now in the correct area,

Im keen to get a decent digital piano, that will last but more importantly be as resemble as close as possible to a proper grand piano.


It would help to know why you don't buy an acoustic grand piano. There most be some reason for preferring the digital and knowing which of several posable reasons you have would allow people to suggest a match to your needs.

For example if the reason is so you can practice at night with headphones then no one would suggest a piano with big (expensive) speakers.

You want it to resemble a grand piano. Does that mean the touch and the sound or must it also look like one and come in a rounded case?



Edited by ChrisA (04/20/11 05:54 PM)

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#1663804 - 04/20/11 05:54 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 611
Originally Posted By: Marky Mark
Im keen to get a decent digital piano, that will last but more importantly be as resemble as close as possible to a proper grand piano...

Does anyone know technically which is the better piano ?

I'm not sure if you mean sound quality, touch, or appearance? Probably all three?

My advice if you care about sound quality is to get a DP with the touch and appearance you want and use it as a MIDI keyboard with computer virtual pianos. The sound quality and variety/choice of emulated acoustic pianos will be much better and you can upgrade to new pianos and new versions many times for fraction of the cost of replacing DPs.

If you get a "mini-grand" DP with a good speaker system, you won't even need external speakers, external amplifiers, etc. If "living room" appearances matter an iMac looks really nice sitting next to a high-luster black mini-grand.
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CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1664003 - 04/21/11 02:44 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
If you want a piano to resemble a grand piano in looks, sound projection and performance, then the best option would be to buy a Yamaha C3 with the Silent system installed. You would then not just have something that looked like a grand, but you would actually have a quality acoustic grand and a built in digital piano reproducing Yamaha's top of the line concert grand.

If you don't want an acoustic piano, but you want the looks, approximate faking in sound projection and best digital performance of a grand piano, then the AvantGrand N3 or the Roland V-Grand are your best bets.

If you are mostly interested in resembling a grand piano in its performance for practice (e.g. with headphones) but don't care about speakers or pretending to look like a grand acoustic piano shaped object (GAPSO), then the Roland V-Piano, the Roland LX-10F and the Roland HP-307 are other choices to consider, where the HP-307 would give you the most bang for your buck.

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#1664191 - 04/21/11 01:54 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: theJourney]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: theJourney
...
If you don't want an acoustic piano, but you want the looks, approximate faking in sound projection and best digital performance of a grand piano, then the AvantGrand N3 or the Roland V-Grand are your best bets.


This points out the problem with asking for the "best". The two above pianos are both good and both very different and I doubt if either could be called "the best". The Roland V is a modeled sound and Yamaha is a sampler. Each has advantages. Many people dislike Roland's modeled sound and others don't like Yamaha's

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#1664252 - 04/21/11 03:16 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: ChrisA]
craig son of berg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 158
Loc: WPB, FL, US of A
there is no best, only my favorite
_________________________
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#1664356 - 04/21/11 06:05 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: craig son of berg]
Marky Mark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Chigwell, Essex, UK
Surely there can only be one answer ?...

The exam question is , "whats the best digital piano on the market that comes as close to an acoustic concert grand"...

I dont have the luxury of a very large room, otherwise i'd have gone acoustic hands down. Im not interested in modeling sounds and having 3 strings on C zeros etc..

The touch and sound come first, what it looks like is secondary....
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Avant Grand N3

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#1664370 - 04/21/11 06:26 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Marky Mark, (I get so tired of all these bu**sh** names), why don't you play the pianos in question and decide for yourself. I am reminded of an old, now deceased friend, who, when speaking of Consumer Reports saying, the magazine for people who can't think for themselves.

Play the ******* pianos yourself and report back after you've made a decision. Better yet, why not share some mp3's of your playing so we can better evaluate what might be the best piano for you. wink
_________________________
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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1664621 - 04/22/11 03:20 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Dave Horne]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
Originally Posted By: theJourney
...
If you don't want an acoustic piano, but you want the looks, approximate faking in sound projection and best digital performance of a grand piano, then the AvantGrand N3 or the Roland V-Grand are your best bets.


This points out the problem with asking for the "best". The two above pianos are both good and both very different and I doubt if either could be called "the best". The Roland V is a modeled sound and Yamaha is a sampler. Each has advantages. Many people dislike Roland's modeled sound and others don't like Yamaha's


Exactly. However, these are, in my opinion, the alternatives from which one may choose. Some people will prefer a real wooden action and amazing sample while others will prefer a dynamically responsive modeled sound engine that isn't quite piano sounding -- while others (the majority) will prefer an acoustic.
Originally Posted By: Marky Mark
Surely there can only be one answer ?...

The exam question is , "whats the best digital piano on the market that comes as close to an acoustic concert grand"...

I dont have the luxury of a very large room, otherwise i'd have gone acoustic hands down. Im not interested in modeling sounds and having 3 strings on C zeros etc..

The touch and sound come first, what it looks like is secondary....


OK. So, you are not interested in it resembling a grand piano. So why are you looking at the RG3 and N3 then? If you don't have enough space for an acoustic grand piano, do you have enough space for an acoustic upright piano? If so, then I would recommend you buy an acoustic upright.

If you don't have the space for an acoustic upright, then I recommend you look at a portable or stage piano that you can then fold up against the wall like an old foldaway bed or ironing board.

You say that touch and sound come first, yet you say you are not interested in modeling, which indicates that you are likely contradicting yourself about wanting the best soundor not putting the effort to understand the terms. What do you mean by the best sound anyway? The best samples, the best organic dynamic response, the most Steinway like the most Yamaha like?

To duplicate faithfully the sound of an acoustic grand with amplifiers and speakers would cost a lot more than the Avant Grand N3, which is the best on the market for sound projection IMO. But, this piano has a footprint approaching that of a baby grand and costs as much as a grand but will never offer the playing experience of a grand.

You don't mention a budget. Given that your requirements are already self-contradictory, is your ability to pay also a mismatch to the price tag for your desire for the subjective "best"?
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Marky Mark, (I get so tired of all these bu**sh** names), why don't you play the pianos in question and decide for yourself. I am reminded of an old, now deceased friend, who, when speaking of Consumer Reports saying, the magazine for people who can't think for themselves.

Play the ******* pianos yourself and report back after you've made a decision. Better yet, why not share some mp3's of your playing so we can better evaluate what might be the best piano for you. wink


LOL. Getting a bit testy, Dave?
This forum is entertainment.
Not everyone visiting a forum about sports cars has any intention of buying a sports car.
The same thing applies here from time to time.

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#1664634 - 04/22/11 04:21 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
LOL. Getting a bit testy, Dave?

It does get tiring after a while. smile
_________________________
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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1664635 - 04/22/11 04:23 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Dave Horne]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2357
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Marky Mark, (I get so tired of all these bu**sh** names), why don't you play the pianos in question and decide for yourself. I am reminded of an old, now deceased friend, who, when speaking of Consumer Reports saying, the magazine for people who can't think for themselves.

Play the ******* pianos yourself and report back after you've made a decision. Better yet, why not share some mp3's of your playing so we can better evaluate what might be the best piano for you. wink

Wow Dave, bad day? Even the smiley fails to lighten it up. But even so your advice is spot on.

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#1664636 - 04/22/11 04:28 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Wow Dave, bad day? Even the smiley fails to lighten it up. But even so your advice is spot on.

I've learned my lesson years ago not to buy equipment based on advertising and even the suggestions of others. At some point you have to make a decision based on the piece of equipment directly under your fingers, there's no way around that.
_________________________
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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1664639 - 04/22/11 04:39 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Dave Horne]
WingNL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 212
Loc: Dordrecht, Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I've learned my lesson years ago not to buy equipment based on advertising and even the suggestions of others. At some point you have to make a decision based on the piece of equipment directly under your fingers, there's no way around that.



Magazines are good to know some new equipment out, and reviews gives you a basic idea of how a device can work. As well as suggestions by others...in a certain amount indeed. But in the end, you need to try it yourself. Especially an instrument.
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Kawai K1 MK2, Roland V-Piano, Focusrite LE interface, 2 custom (cheap)Telecasters, and a lot of softsynths!

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#1664666 - 04/22/11 07:11 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Magazines are good to know some new equipment out, and reviews gives you a basic idea of how a device can work.

You mean the same magazines that accept advertising from those same keyboard makers?
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AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1664684 - 04/22/11 08:00 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Uh, oh, what!? wink +1!
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<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1664870 - 04/22/11 01:36 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Dave Horne]
Marky Mark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Chigwell, Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Marky Mark, (I get so tired of all these bu**sh** names), why don't you play the pianos in question and decide for yourself. I am reminded of an old, now deceased friend, who, when speaking of Consumer Reports saying, the magazine for people who can't think for themselves.

Play the ******* pianos yourself and report back after you've made a decision. Better yet, why not share some mp3's of your playing so we can better evaluate what might be the best piano for you. wink


Wow, someone has had a bad day...., second post on the forum and ive already made a friend. Btw, as for the username, my name is Mark, some people choose to call me marky, hence coming up with Marky Mark, im sure post peolpe on here are not interested what you think of peoples user names anyway!.


Finding a local dealer with a Roland V, RG3 a Yamaha N3 all to test is easier said than done, my nearest dealer to my area is Harrods, I did managed to get down there last saturday and take a look at the RG1F and RG3, however the place was very busy (full of tourists) and not really ideal to test the keyboards, hence posting for peoples views, however it seems that too is easier said than done...

I will buy one, i want to make sure its the right one..

So for those that have posted (at least constructive comments) thank you.


Edited by Marky Mark (04/22/11 01:37 PM)
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Avant Grand N3

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#1664914 - 04/22/11 02:47 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Mark, I wasn't having the best day, I apologize.
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#1664985 - 04/22/11 04:50 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Dave Horne]
Marky Mark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Chigwell, Essex, UK
Lol, no worries Dave ive seen far worse on other forums...

Irrespective of which one i go for, I'm looking to buy one from the US, and have it shipped over, the dollar v pound still makes it an attractive opportunity. I've been told the N3 for example is multivoltage item, so im assuming has the necessary adaptors\sockets for power etc.

Now i just need to find a dealer and agree the price.... smile
_________________________
Avant Grand N3

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#1665012 - 04/22/11 05:28 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Marky Mark
Lol, no worries Dave ive seen far worse on other forums...

Irrespective of which one i go for, I'm looking to buy one from the US, and have it shipped over, the dollar v pound still makes it an attractive opportunity. I've been told the N3 for example is multivoltage item, so im assuming has the necessary adaptors\sockets for power etc.

Now i just need to find a dealer and agree the price.... smile


You might want to ask your government what the import tax is. Here in the Netherlands it's 25 percent and then they add another 19 percent VAT.

One way to get around those taxes is to have the piano included in the household goods of someone you know who is moving from the US to the UK. You'll have to wait for the shipment but that would the cheapest way to get one to the UK.

If you buy one from the US make sure the dealer realizes it will be used in the UK. My N3 only states AC IN where the plug is. I believe I spoke with a dealer in the US and was given US specific voltage information. Maybe someone here who owns a N3 and who lives in the US could provide information on their N3.
_________________________
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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1665146 - 04/22/11 10:35 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Dave Horne]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Don't rule out the AvantGrand N1. It has the same exact action of the N3 for about half the price.


It does? I'm not so sure. The promotional material for the N1 reads differently when it talks about the keyboard and the action. I suspect that the N1 action is not the same as the action used in the N2 / N3.
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#1665190 - 04/23/11 01:18 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Don't rule out the AvantGrand N1. It has the same exact action of the N3 for about half the price.


It does? I'm not so sure. The promotional material for the N1 reads differently when it talks about the keyboard and the action. I suspect that the N1 action is not the same as the action used in the N2 / N3.
If I remember correctly, the exterior surface of the N1 keys is not Ivorite like the N3/N2, but is simply plastic resin like most digital keyboards. But I think the action mechanism is the same, although it doesn't have the Tactile Response System (vibration) like the N3/N2 has. Also pedaling is probably more like that of the N2 and doesn't have the grand pedal pressure gradient feel like that of the N3.

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#1665238 - 04/23/11 03:54 AM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Marky Mark]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
The action is the same, the N1 does not have the ivorite (or whatever it's called) surface and does not have the Tactile Response System, but it has a grand piano action just the same.

The key surface is more a cosmetic feature and the TRS is just icing on the cake. If I didn't have the space for the N3 I'd buy the N1. For practicing purpose it's the same piano.
_________________________
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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1665409 - 04/23/11 01:56 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Dave Horne]
WingNL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 212
Loc: Dordrecht, Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Magazines are good to know some new equipment out, and reviews gives you a basic idea of how a device can work.

You mean the same magazines that accept advertising from those same keyboard makers?


Depends on the magazine? :-) Also...there are some good independand magazines around there. I didn't particulary refer to offline (paper) magazines. They got a lot more to think of then an online one.
_________________________
Kawai K1 MK2, Roland V-Piano, Focusrite LE interface, 2 custom (cheap)Telecasters, and a lot of softsynths!

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#1666403 - 04/25/11 04:34 PM Re: Help. Avant Grand N3 or RG3 ????? What "really" is the best [Re: Dave Horne]
Marky Mark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Chigwell, Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Marky Mark
Lol, no worries Dave ive seen far worse on other forums...

Irrespective of which one i go for, I'm looking to buy one from the US, and have it shipped over, the dollar v pound still makes it an attractive opportunity. I've been told the N3 for example is multivoltage item, so im assuming has the necessary adaptors\sockets for power etc.

Now i just need to find a dealer and agree the price.... smile


You might want to ask your government what the import tax is. Here in the Netherlands it's 25 percent and then they add another 19 percent VAT.

One way to get around those taxes is to have the piano included in the household goods of someone you know who is moving from the US to the UK. You'll have to wait for the shipment but that would the cheapest way to get one to the UK.

If you buy one from the US make sure the dealer realizes it will be used in the UK. My N3 only states AC IN where the plug is. I believe I spoke with a dealer in the US and was given US specific voltage information. Maybe someone here who owns a N3 and who lives in the US could provide information on their N3.





Hi Dave, Uk taxes is 20% fixed, even after shipping its cheaper than UK retail prices..

The US dealer told me the unit was multivoltage, incidentally this is the dealer..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280662489505&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
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Avant Grand N3

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New Topics - Multiple Forums
helpers wanted, interactive PC piano teaching game
by russellambrose
09/19/14 08:40 AM
4 vs 3, Practice slow or fast?
by Pover
09/19/14 07:24 AM
Cable Nelson Upright
by Paul678
09/19/14 07:12 AM
Studio monitors for a digital piano
by diegopefm
09/19/14 05:18 AM
Has anyone tried out wireless USB hubs for software pianos?
by Allan W.
09/19/14 02:34 AM
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