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peterd Offline OP
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Hello all

I am new to this forum and getting starting to learn piano. Originally interested in the Yamaha P-155 & Kawai EP3. Both around the same price. So it came down to sound, feel and features. I then was intrigued by the Kawai newer 88 key sampling. In the process of buying I have found the search for Kawai digital products unrewarding and inconvenient as some have already stated. It was apparent early in the process that I would win the lottery before someone would stock an EP3 so I now was considering the ES6. Living in the NY area I went to a dealer on Long Island who stocked the ES6. A beautiful instrument to my untrained ear and I was prepared to buy. Kawai website had discounted the price from $2100 to $1700. But I was willing to pay the premium. The dealer quoted the ES6 with stand at $2600. The ES6 alone $2100. During the buying experience the worse occurrence is a surprise. Naturally dealers are free to charge whatever they choose. I also understand the cost for upkeep of a store front and I am willing to pay the premium for that. Normally however the manufacturer and the dealer are more in tune with each other. The $400 discrepancy and the overall $1000 bump was just too much of a surprise for me. Things of this nature raise flags as to what the surprises may be with support and service issues down the line. Generally the best reception you'll receive is in the sales cycle. While inquiries to Kawai have been responded to quickly, in general they have steered the conversion to the dealers. That is also the impression I get from the Kawai rep who responds in this forum. I emphasize solely my impression.
I really don't want this to come across as a rant against Kawai. I wanted very much to buy one. Aside from some issues I still would. I have contacted Kawai and I have seen the dealers. The obstacles remain. Almost no availability, price discrepancies, lack of continuity between manufacturer and dealers plus price at premium without clear distinction makes Yamaha far more attractive than should be the case.

If anyone has an EP3 or ES6 I would really value your opinion.
my 2 cents in the matter.

Moderator, if this is not the place for this post plz advise and I will remove it or plz just discard this.

my 2 cents
Peter


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Last edited by AJF; 05/04/11 11:44 PM. Reason: im an idiot :)

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Peter,

I feel your pain.
My local kawai dealer is also charging a huge premium compared to prices quoted on this forum.
I can stomach paying a 10-15% increase, but no more. ALL the dealers have to pay for store fronts, so I can't understand such a price difference.
I can probably shop around, but it's then a 4-5 hours drive, and it might incur additional expenses for the warranty.
Basically, those dealers are acting as in monopoly situation.

I wish the manufacturers would move to a fixed price, as it is the case for some premium brands (in other industries).

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You can buy the ES6 directly from kawai's web site for $1699 + $20 shipping. They may or may not collect sales tax as well.

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Hello Peter,

Some points to note:

- The EP3 is a lower specification version of the ES6, and does not feature the more modern 88-key piano sampling sound technology.

- The EP3 is listed under Kawai America's 'Professional' line of products, which are typically sold through the larger musical instrument store chains such as Sweetwater, Kraft. I believe Sam Ash in New York also carry these instruments, although it would perhaps be best to call ahead before setting-off to be absolutely sure.

- The ES6 is not listed under Kawai America's 'Professional' line, and like most other Kawai instruments is sold exclusively through Kawai dealers. As Lefty Chev notes, this model can also be purchased directly through the Kawai America website.

- Kawai has a very strong support and service reputation, while customer queries are also responded to in a prompt, efficient manner.

Originally Posted by peterd
While inquiries to Kawai have been responded to quickly, in general they have steered the conversion to the dealers. That is also the impression I get from the Kawai rep who responds in this forum.


To clarify, my role on this forum is to provide information and answer queries about Kawai digital piano instruments. If individuals based in the US are seeking information about Kawai dealers in their area, I typically place them in touch with colleagues at Kawai America who are best equipped to deal with the query.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


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peterd Offline OP
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Thank you Kawai James for you reply. The problem has never been where in the line the EP3 in positioned. Nor is it Kawai's reputation. The real issue is head to head comparison of the Yamaha P-155 which is easy to get access to while the EP3 is quite the opposite. The EP3 is not stocked in dealers or the large music stores except by special order here in NY nor anywhere practical to travel to. Therefore the Yamaha wins by default.




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Originally Posted by peterd
In the process of buying I have found the search for Kawai digital products unrewarding and inconvenient as some have already stated.

You can't really say whether or not it is ultimately rewarding until you score your ultimate digital piano.

Perhaps going through all the inconvenience, headaches and effort will lead you to a piano that you would not have bought had you just chosen to buy one on impulse after playing the whole lineup from the industry leader and number one brand at the fully stocked, full-service, authorized and trained, professional Yamaha dealer close to your home.
Originally Posted by peterd

It was apparent early in the process that I would win the lottery before someone would stock an EP3 so I now was considering the ES6. Living in the NY area I went to a dealer on Long Island who stocked the ES6. A beautiful instrument to my untrained ear and I was prepared to buy. Kawai website had discounted the price from $2100 to $1700. But I was willing to pay the premium. The dealer quoted the ES6 with stand at $2600. The ES6 alone $2100. During the buying experience the worse occurrence is a surprise. Naturally dealers are free to charge whatever they choose. I also understand the cost for upkeep of a store front and I am willing to pay the premium for that. Normally however the manufacturer and the dealer are more in tune with each other. The $400 discrepancy and the overall $1000 bump was just too much of a surprise for me. Things of this nature raise flags as to what the surprises may be with support and service issues down the line. Generally the best reception you'll receive is in the sales cycle. While inquiries to Kawai have been responded to quickly, in general they have steered the conversion to the dealers. That is also the impression I get from the Kawai rep who responds in this forum. ... I wanted very much to buy one. Aside from some issues I still would. I have contacted Kawai and I have seen the dealers. The obstacles remain. Almost no availability, price discrepancies, lack of continuity between manufacturer and dealers plus price at premium without clear distinction makes Yamaha far more attractive than should be the case.

Unfortunately this is quite common experience. There are very few Kawai dealers, they are very hard to find and once you find them, too many of them are very difficult to do business with, including wanting to charge a premium for having a store front but not providing you with value for this premium by stocking the models or having the expertise to allow you to audition, compare and inform your decision.

Consumer products manufacturer such as Coca-Cola and Yamaha understand that "availability drives sales and consumption". Just having a Coke vending machine at the beach means that they will make sales even if water is cheaper and better for you. The fact that Yamaha has a great worldwide dealer network that allows you to compare, audition and shop with convenenince and ease, means that Yamaha will have the advantage to Kawai, even through Kawai might be subjectively judged by many to be superior on a number of product dimensions.

The constant advice here to "try before you buy" is another nail in Kawai's coffin as this advice gives a natural advantage to those brands that are actually "available" to try.

When you live in a sparsely populated, outlying area not known for the arts or for piano playing like New York City or Amsterdam, you can't really expect a small company like Kawai to have competitive and competent dealer coverage.
Originally Posted by peterd

If anyone has an EP3 or ES6 I would really value your opinion.
my 2 cents in the matter.



I have recommended the ES6 to someone who is very satisfied with it.

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peterd Offline OP
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Journey you said it better than I could have. Maybe someday Amsterdam and NY will catch up with the rest of the world. I remain hopeful.



Peter

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