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#1670891 - 05/03/11 07:37 PM Re: headphones [Re: Dave Horne]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5426
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
My electrical engineer friend quoted some from Wiki and then added the following ...

So, to get maximum power transfer your source impedance (piano's amplifier output) must equal the load impedance (headphones). However, your existing headphones have a much lower impedance than the anticipated new headphones which probably means that you will see better efficiency (and higher perceived volume) from the new headphones since it takes less current to drive a 300 ohm load than a 55 ohm load.

Hope this helps.
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AvantGrand N3, CP5, Sennheiser HD 598 headphones

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#1670909 - 05/03/11 08:07 PM Re: headphones [Re: Dave Horne]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
it takes less current to drive a 300 ohm load than a 55 ohm load.



I think he reversed what he was trying to say.

EDIT: and the impedance matching isn't relevant for speakers or headphones. They use voltage bridging, where your output impedance is very low and your speaker/headphone impedance is very high.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_bridging


Edited by Lefty Chev (05/03/11 08:28 PM)

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#1670944 - 05/03/11 09:17 PM Re: headphones [Re: Lefty Chev]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev
I'm long removed from physics classes and working with circuits, but what I think the number that matters for practical purposes is the "dB/V".

Given 1 volt of output, the 240's will be driven to produce 104 dB.
Given 1 volt of output, the 650's will be driven to produce 103 dB.


The above is correct but if one headphone is 300 ohms and the other is 50. Then one needs 6 times more current or, because power is volts times current 6 times more power for what is very close to the same volume level.

But most any DP and even an iPod has enough power to drive low impedance headphones.

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#1671002 - 05/03/11 10:10 PM Re: headphones [Re: ChrisA]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: ChrisA

The above is correct but if one headphone is 300 ohms and the other is 50. Then one needs 6 times more current or, because power is volts times current 6 times more power for what is very close to the same volume level.

But most any DP and even an iPod has enough power to drive low impedance headphones.


My assumption is that looking at dB per volt takes that into consideration.

1V into a 300 ohm load would result in 0.00333 amps of current. They're saying that that produces 103dB of sound pressure at whatever the measuring distance is.

1V into a 55 ohm load would result in 0.01818 amps of current. They're saying that that produces 104dB of sound pressure at whatever the measuring distance is.

The explanation for that is that the speakers in the 300 ohm cans are much more efficient and require less current to drive to a similar volume.

At least that's what seems to make sense.

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#1671080 - 05/04/11 02:12 AM Re: headphones [Re: Lefty Chev]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev

1V into a 300 ohm load would result in 0.00333 amps of current. They're saying that that produces 103dB of sound pressure at whatever the measuring distance is.

1V into a 55 ohm load would result in 0.01818 amps of current. They're saying that that produces 104dB of sound pressure at whatever the measuring distance is.

The explanation for that is that the speakers in the 300 ohm cans are much more efficient and require less current to drive to a similar volume.

At least that's what seems to make sense.


Exactly! So look at these dB/V numbers, they're in most cases provided with your cans (or stated at the technical specs in the internet).
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#1671123 - 05/04/11 04:54 AM Re: headphones [Re: Dave Horne]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5426
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
So, while the Sennheiser HD 650's will probably be loud enough I should have a return policy in place before I open my wallet.
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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5, Sennheiser HD 598 headphones

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#1682033 - 05/21/11 10:51 AM Re: headphones [Re: Dave Horne]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5426
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I compared my AKG 240 MKII's to the Sennheiser HD 650 today. I did a real fast comparison and the Sennheiser's were just a tad louder. So while one would expect (all things being equal) that a set of 300 ohm headphones would be quieter than a set of 55 ohm headphones, the Sennheiser's are actually more efficient.

So while I haven't decided to buy them just yet, it's still good to know I won't need to buy a headphone amplifier to use them with my N3.
_________________________
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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5, Sennheiser HD 598 headphones

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#1682066 - 05/21/11 11:51 AM Re: headphones [Re: James Q]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3928
Originally Posted By: James Q
Dave, the two model you mentioned in your post are two different types of headphone, the AKG K240 Mark II is a HI-FI headphone. The Sony MDR-V600 is a studio monitor headphone.

I don't know anything about the Sony, but it is interesting about the AKG. Coincidentally, I just discovered the same thing last night. The AKG 240 used to be a studio monitor headphone, but it apparently isn't quite that accurate anymore.

http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=AKG_K240_Series

I have the AKG K240DF which is probably the best studio monitor version they ever made.

I think any headphones you like the sound of, "hi-fi" or otherwise, are fine if you're just using them for your own pleasure. But if you're using headphones to record with, or to evaluate the sounds coming out of an instrument, then you want to aim for something neutral, something accurate.

In terms of a moderately priced accurate headphone, I think the AKG of choice these days is the K702, though a Beyer DT-880 might still be a better choice, I'm not sure. Or if you want a closed back design, the Denon AH-D2000, which I just ordered, to complement my K240DF. It looks like they are almost as neutral, and will be handy when I need more volume, or am doing something in a noisy environment where I want to block out other sounds, or for microphone recording where the leakage of an open-back would be a problem.

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