Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
104 registered (accordeur, AndyP, Anita Potter, aceydawg, A Guy, 32 invisible), 1444 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#1670891 - 05/03/11 07:37 PM Re: headphones [Re: Dave Horne]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
My electrical engineer friend quoted some from Wiki and then added the following ...

So, to get maximum power transfer your source impedance (piano's amplifier output) must equal the load impedance (headphones). However, your existing headphones have a much lower impedance than the anticipated new headphones which probably means that you will see better efficiency (and higher perceived volume) from the new headphones since it takes less current to drive a 300 ohm load than a 55 ohm load.

Hope this helps.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
The Right Mic Makes all the Difference. Piano Mics at Sweetwater

Click Here


#1670909 - 05/03/11 08:07 PM Re: headphones [Re: Dave Horne]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
it takes less current to drive a 300 ohm load than a 55 ohm load.



I think he reversed what he was trying to say.

EDIT: and the impedance matching isn't relevant for speakers or headphones. They use voltage bridging, where your output impedance is very low and your speaker/headphone impedance is very high.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_bridging


Edited by Lefty Chev (05/03/11 08:28 PM)

Top
#1670944 - 05/03/11 09:17 PM Re: headphones [Re: Lefty Chev]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev
I'm long removed from physics classes and working with circuits, but what I think the number that matters for practical purposes is the "dB/V".

Given 1 volt of output, the 240's will be driven to produce 104 dB.
Given 1 volt of output, the 650's will be driven to produce 103 dB.


The above is correct but if one headphone is 300 ohms and the other is 50. Then one needs 6 times more current or, because power is volts times current 6 times more power for what is very close to the same volume level.

But most any DP and even an iPod has enough power to drive low impedance headphones.

Top
#1671002 - 05/03/11 10:10 PM Re: headphones [Re: ChrisA]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: ChrisA

The above is correct but if one headphone is 300 ohms and the other is 50. Then one needs 6 times more current or, because power is volts times current 6 times more power for what is very close to the same volume level.

But most any DP and even an iPod has enough power to drive low impedance headphones.


My assumption is that looking at dB per volt takes that into consideration.

1V into a 300 ohm load would result in 0.00333 amps of current. They're saying that that produces 103dB of sound pressure at whatever the measuring distance is.

1V into a 55 ohm load would result in 0.01818 amps of current. They're saying that that produces 104dB of sound pressure at whatever the measuring distance is.

The explanation for that is that the speakers in the 300 ohm cans are much more efficient and require less current to drive to a similar volume.

At least that's what seems to make sense.

Top
#1671080 - 05/04/11 02:12 AM Re: headphones [Re: Lefty Chev]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev

1V into a 300 ohm load would result in 0.00333 amps of current. They're saying that that produces 103dB of sound pressure at whatever the measuring distance is.

1V into a 55 ohm load would result in 0.01818 amps of current. They're saying that that produces 104dB of sound pressure at whatever the measuring distance is.

The explanation for that is that the speakers in the 300 ohm cans are much more efficient and require less current to drive to a similar volume.

At least that's what seems to make sense.


Exactly! So look at these dB/V numbers, they're in most cases provided with your cans (or stated at the technical specs in the internet).
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

Top
#1671123 - 05/04/11 04:54 AM Re: headphones [Re: Dave Horne]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
So, while the Sennheiser HD 650's will probably be loud enough I should have a return policy in place before I open my wallet.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

Top
#1682033 - 05/21/11 10:51 AM Re: headphones [Re: Dave Horne]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I compared my AKG 240 MKII's to the Sennheiser HD 650 today. I did a real fast comparison and the Sennheiser's were just a tad louder. So while one would expect (all things being equal) that a set of 300 ohm headphones would be quieter than a set of 55 ohm headphones, the Sennheiser's are actually more efficient.

So while I haven't decided to buy them just yet, it's still good to know I won't need to buy a headphone amplifier to use them with my N3.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

Top
#1682066 - 05/21/11 11:51 AM Re: headphones [Re: James Q]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3412
Originally Posted By: James Q
Dave, the two model you mentioned in your post are two different types of headphone, the AKG K240 Mark II is a HI-FI headphone. The Sony MDR-V600 is a studio monitor headphone.

I don't know anything about the Sony, but it is interesting about the AKG. Coincidentally, I just discovered the same thing last night. The AKG 240 used to be a studio monitor headphone, but it apparently isn't quite that accurate anymore.

http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=AKG_K240_Series

I have the AKG K240DF which is probably the best studio monitor version they ever made.

I think any headphones you like the sound of, "hi-fi" or otherwise, are fine if you're just using them for your own pleasure. But if you're using headphones to record with, or to evaluate the sounds coming out of an instrument, then you want to aim for something neutral, something accurate.

In terms of a moderately priced accurate headphone, I think the AKG of choice these days is the K702, though a Beyer DT-880 might still be a better choice, I'm not sure. Or if you want a closed back design, the Denon AH-D2000, which I just ordered, to complement my K240DF. It looks like they are almost as neutral, and will be handy when I need more volume, or am doing something in a noisy environment where I want to block out other sounds, or for microphone recording where the leakage of an open-back would be a problem.

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!

Trade Regrets:
Barry "Bear" Arnaut

(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha Avantgrand N1 manufacturing date
by farain
11/26/14 11:12 PM
Is it really possible to ignore fingerings?
by bjorn of brekkukot
11/26/14 08:29 PM
Recording equipment advice
by aceydawg
11/26/14 07:48 PM
Whip those springs into shape
by A454.7
11/26/14 06:29 PM
New Yamaha CLP-545 or used CLP-270/280 ???
by Panpiano
11/26/14 06:28 PM
Forum Stats
77064 Members
42 Forums
159384 Topics
2341293 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission