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#1672408 - 05/06/11 07:52 AM Roland FP4F
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Hi,

Is this piano any good? I used to own the standard FP4 and that was a nice piano I must admit, the only complaint I would have is the lighter than normal keyboard action, alpha something or other it was called. I was wondering if the new ivory-G keyboard is just as light or heavier and more responsive? Also are the onboard speakers loud enough for gigging at venues like weddings and restaurants etc.. without need for external amps?

I currently own the HP307 by Roland

Thanks smile

Mark
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

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#1672452 - 05/06/11 09:15 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Nbrooks Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 8
Hi mwf,

The FP4F is only just making its way into stores, so it's unlikely many people would have seen it physically. I'm hoping to go see it this weekend - I'll report back if I do!

Nick

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#1674079 - 05/09/11 12:47 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
bump

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#1674095 - 05/09/11 01:42 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
theJourney, thank you for your recent very detailed and nice comments...
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1674196 - 05/09/11 07:51 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Nbrooks Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 8
I had high hopes for the FP4F and wasn't impressed. The onboard speakers just don't do anything for me - the FP7F sounds way, way, better. Action was also not that great.

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#1674231 - 05/09/11 08:48 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Thanks for reporting back! Still no sign of any here.

I would be very surprised to see on an instrument with an action and speakers that are designed primarily to be portable and lower cost that they would be as good as those on an instrument not designed to be as cheap and portable. That is kind of the idea (just as it was on the old FP4 versus FP7).

Could you describe the difference in feel between the Ivory Feel-G on the FP4-F and the Ivory Feel-S on the FP-F?
Is it much lighter to play? Less responsive?

I am thinking that you would have to have a bad back or be gigging every week for the difference in cost and difference in action quality to make up for the difference in size and weight. But then again, bringing an FP-7F on board an airplane as carryon or non-penalized luggage is an impossibility where there are numerous stories of people getting their FP-4 on board even as carryon. And, if you are only playing the board outside occasionally, I guess having a lesser action would not be a big deal. A bigger deal would be not being able to get it where you need it to be.

Anyone else have any luck playing one of these?


Edited by theJourney (05/09/11 08:49 AM)

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#1674352 - 05/09/11 12:33 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
Nbrooks Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 8
Of course, I didn't expect the 4F to sound as good as the 7F - but I was surprised by the differential.

I can't comment too much on the actions (they were at different heights) but they 7F felt better - slightly more weighty I think.

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#1674373 - 05/09/11 01:13 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
I can comment on the actions between the PHA II Alpha keys inside the FP-4/RD-300GX and the Ivory Feel-G keys on the FP-4F/RD-300NX since I owned the 300GX and played the 300NX. To sum it up in 3 words...much much better. The Ivory Feel-G keys/action are the single biggest improvement to me between the FP-4/RD-300GX and their newest versions. I didn't like the PHA II Alpha keys at all really, but I'd love to stick the Ivory Feel-G keys in my NP88. cool Much better feel, much more control, and much less spongy feeling than the PHA II Alpha keys.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1674391 - 05/09/11 01:46 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
I have one and I find the new action is too stiff. I hate it and think I am going to return it. It's like a piano with massive friction in its action.
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

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#1674399 - 05/09/11 02:04 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
I have one and I find the new action is too stiff. I hate it and think I am going to return it. It's like a piano with massive friction in its action.


I didn't find this to be the case at all. For a lightweight stage piano, the RD-300NX/FP-4F have one of the best actions out. The RD-700NX/FP-7F's PHA III action is a bit 'stiffer' than the Ivory Feel-G action in the 300NX/FP-4F. If you want a lighter 'weighted' Hammer action then look at the NE3HP or the NP88.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1674413 - 05/09/11 02:26 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>> I have one and I find the new action is too stiff. I hate it and think I am going to return it. It's like a piano with massive friction in its action.

that's scary.
I tried the 300NX for a few minutes and thought it was great.

I wonder if

- you got a defective unit.
- Or NX is not like FP.
- I didn't try long enough.



Edited by knotty (05/09/11 02:27 PM)

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#1674498 - 05/09/11 05:17 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: knotty]
Manolito Mystiq Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 26
So ... hi, everyone.

I am trying to a get a new digital piano. It will be my first (I don't think you can count the Roland EM-20 I got from my brother).

Anyway, I have played real acoustic upright (and grand) pianos at the Conservatoire, and every DP I checked, I wasn't sold immediately.

Several months ago, I tried the FP4, F110, FP7F, and the Yamaha P155 in a store, but didn't buy anything.
Now I checked them all as well as the FP4F, as it was now available as well (being the very first one to check the instrument).

I was surprised that the keys felt even weightier (in a good way) than the FP7F, but then again, I checked it as brand new, while the 7F is there for a while.

I couldn't really tell the difference between the sounds, compared to the 7F; I still feel that I just don't like the sound. It might be the speakers (but I felt the same for the 7F). I think it doesn't matter what DP with speakers I will buy, though (or I should buy the V-Piano).

The P155 has something...real. The keys are good, which helps; on the other hand, it has this fakish sound too (but I checked with headphones).

I sometimes feel I should just go for the all-in-one F110 and buy EW Pianos, and hook it up on my computer. I believe I will have superior sound to even the 7F that way, but then I'm stuck with using the computer, or using the on board piano sound (which to me, doesn't sound all that bad).

Tough to decide...


Edited by Manolito Mystiq (05/09/11 05:33 PM)

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#1679518 - 05/17/11 05:00 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Well, I got my hands on a FP-4F this week.

The keyboard definitely does not feel like the FP-4 and seems to be quite an improvement on it.
However, it is not near as satisfying or seductive to play as the PHA-III in my HP-307 although it is quite expressive.
It feels to be much heavier than the PHA-III and in this respect feels more like my Kawai RX-2, although it is more sluggish.
The dynamic control on the sound does not seem as natural and butter-like as on the PHA-III/HP-307, but the basic sounds are similar and the speakers put out a lot of sound!

All in all it seems like a good deal for a portable instrument with a decent keyboard and great sounds in an all in one package with onboard speakers.

If you don't mind the extra size and weight and won't be moving it around too much and can afford the extra cost, the FP7-F might be a better choice. But for something that is easy to throw in the car and take where you want, this is it.


Edited by theJourney (05/17/11 05:03 PM)

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#1679519 - 05/17/11 05:04 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Well, I got my hands on a FP-4F this week.

The keyboard definitely does not feel like the FP-4 and seems to be quite an improvement on it.
However, it is not near as satisfying or seductive to play as the PHA-III in my HP-307 although it is quite expressive.
It feels to be much heavier than the PHA-III and in this respect feels more like my Kawai RX-2, although it is more sluggish.
The dynamic control on the sound does not seem as natural and butter-like as on the PHA-III/HP-307, but the basic sounds are similar and the speakers put out a lot of sound!

All in all it seems like a good deal for a portable instrument with a decent keyboard and great sounds in an all in one package with onboard speakers.

If you don't mind the extra size and weight and won't be moving it around too much and can afford the extra cost, the FP7-F might be a better choice. But for something that is easy to throw in the car and take where you want, this is it.


How does the action on your HP-307 compare to the RX-2 grand?
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1679526 - 05/17/11 05:20 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Much lighter with a more hollow, playing-on-the-side-of-a-cardboard-box feeling, but with the similar satisfying feedback of being able to articulate a lot of what I want when I have my headphones on and the volume turned up.

PHA-III and Supernatural is nice, but the real thing is a lot nicer.

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#1679546 - 05/17/11 05:44 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2311
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Well, I got my hands on a FP-4F this week.

The keyboard definitely does not feel like the FP-4 and seems to be quite an improvement on it.
However, it is not near as satisfying or seductive to play as the PHA-III in my HP-307 although it is quite expressive.
It feels to be much heavier than the PHA-III and in this respect feels more like my Kawai RX-2, although it is more sluggish.
The dynamic control on the sound does not seem as natural and butter-like as on the PHA-III/HP-307, but the basic sounds are similar and the speakers put out a lot of sound!

All in all it seems like a good deal for a portable instrument with a decent keyboard and great sounds in an all in one package with onboard speakers.

If you don't mind the extra size and weight and won't be moving it around too much and can afford the extra cost, the FP7-F might be a better choice. But for something that is easy to throw in the car and take where you want, this is it.


Thanks for that theJourney. I'm still waiting for my chance to try one. Sounds quite 'ok' at a distance but, of course, need to check my own impressions. Any one else got some personal feedback?

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#1679550 - 05/17/11 05:47 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
I have one and I find the new action is too stiff. I hate it and think I am going to return it. It's like a piano with massive friction in its action.


Yes, maybe that is what I am interpreting as weight. At times it almost feels like the spring loading one feels in the little Yamaha NP-30s but then stiffer and with the escapement bump.

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#1679595 - 05/17/11 06:43 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3017
Loc: Oregon
Sounds like the Kawai MP6 has these lighter-weight Rolands licked in terms of the action. However, there is a weight premium for the Kawai. So far, what I've heard put me off upgrading my FP4 to one of the new Rolands.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1679805 - 05/18/11 02:23 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: voxpops]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Sounds like the Kawai MP6 has these lighter-weight Rolands licked in terms of the action. However, there is a weight premium for the Kawai. So far, what I've heard put me off upgrading my FP4 to one of the new Rolands.


I haven't been able to play an MP6 next to an FP-4F, but there are any number of aspects to consider that may or may not be important to the individual user considering trading their FP-4 for a new FP-4F or considering an MP6. First off is that the new FP-4F seems to have less features: the sound effects panel section is gone. Then there are the considerations of whether you like the new action or not (on balance I definitely do compared to the old alpha action). Finally, there are the considerations of practicality and usability:

Weight and Portability
Well, the FP4-F weighs in at 16.6 kg while the MP6 is 21.5 kg, which is half way on its way to weighing as much as the FP-7F, weighing 24 kg, the keyboard of which compares favorably to the huge and hugely heavy MP10.
In practice, when flying and checking a digital piano as luggage, the MP6 with case will always incur an overweight charge (anything over 21kg) where the FP-4F may be able to be checked in without paying this charge of between $125 to $450 each way.

Linear Dimensions and Portability
The linear dimensions of the Roland are also more compact than the Kawai: 1355 x 347 x 181 =1883 for the MP6 and 1342 x 305 x 135 =1782 for the Roland. Both exceed the maximum linear dimensions of 1547 for checked luggage already without their case. However, the Roland is shorter in every dimension and in particular in the most important and constraining dimension: the length of the keyboard. There have been multiple reports of putting FP4s into tight fitting soft gig cases and people sweet talking their way into bringing them on board for free as fragile musical instruments carry-ons. I remember no such stories of people successfully bringing their MP5s on board as carry-on.

Ease and Portability
These are two very different instruments with likely different users. Someone doing solo or pickup gigging for weddings, bar mitzvahs, golden anniversaries and quinceaƱeras has everything they need already packed within the FP4-F with its speakers on board aimed squarely at the audience. The MP6 on the other hand requires another case with all the other equipment needed from amplifiers to speakers and cables, etc. Not only will that take up another set of hands that a solo player does not have but will also take up another luggage charge.

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#1679810 - 05/18/11 02:34 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8827
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hmm...wouldn't the RD-300NX have been a closer comparison with the MP6?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1679822 - 05/18/11 03:07 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Hmm...wouldn't the RD-300NX have been a closer comparison with the MP6?

Cheers,
James
x


I would think so, yes.
What Kawai model is best positioned to compete with the FP-4F, in your opinion?

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#1679825 - 05/18/11 03:39 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8827
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Well, there isn't a like-for-like Kawai instrument to compete with the FP-4F, however the ES6 is arguably the closest comparison model due to the built-in speakers. This model is obviously a few years older than the FP-4F, though, and does not feature the latest keyboard action/sound technology.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1679840 - 05/18/11 04:39 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Well, there isn't a like-for-like Kawai instrument to compete with the FP-4F, however the ES6 is arguably the closest comparison model due to the built-in speakers. This model is obviously a few years older than the FP-4F, though, and does not feature the latest keyboard action/sound technology.

Cheers,
James
x

Yes, the ES6 is getting a bit long in the teeth. I would have thought that the ES6 which is just as heavy as the MP6 but with older keybed and older sound was more of a home piano rather than a solo gigging piano. Anyone here use an ES6 for gigging?

You can't fault potential customers for wanting to give Kawai a chance (by looking at the latest and greatest MP6), even if there isn't anything comparable and competitive in the line up. It speaks volumes about the respect that Kawai commands from many keyboardists and pianists.

Manufacturers can do all the segmenting they want, but the only segments that count are the ones in the consumer's head.

Roland seems to have a line of products that attempt to bridge the gap between he home segment and the professional segment that don't seem to be on the radar screen of Kawai.

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#1679844 - 05/18/11 04:52 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8827
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Remind me, how do you say "damning with faint praise" in Dutch again? wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1679859 - 05/18/11 05:54 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Remind me, how do you say "damning with faint praise" in Dutch again? wink

James
x


I have no idea. As far as I know there is no direct translation.

Sayings and idioms are generally tightly tied to culture.
This expression is clearly as English as one can be, coming as it does from a centuries-old literature reference from one of England's fine poets Alexander Pope.

The issue here is not one of boosterism-like cheerleading vs. damning. Hopefully we are bringing more intelligence to the discussions here than the mindless brawling of football hooligans.

Instead the issue is one of examining very concrete and relevant product features that make instruments appropriate or inappropriate for the specific tasks and workflows of potential users. E.g. a slab either has speakers or it doesn't, it is either light enough to check free of charge as luggage or it isn't, it either has a sufficiently expressive keybed that one judges for himself is a pleasure to play or it doesn't, etc.

Can you share with us anything we might be missing in the Kawai ES6's edge in competing with the Roland FP-4F to try to bring this thread a little bit back on track?

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#1679880 - 05/18/11 06:49 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Hopefully we are bringing more intelligence to the discussions here than the mindless brawling of football hooligans.


How comes that you're always kicking someone's ass...
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1679893 - 05/18/11 07:25 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Ken Knapp Offline



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2203
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think theJourney just likes to debate. Like many others on the forum. I don't think I'd call it "kicking someone's ass" though.
_________________________
Ken

Piano Organ Depot
http://www.pianoorgandepot.com
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#1679901 - 05/18/11 07:46 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Ken Knapp]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
I think theJourney just likes to debate. Like many others on the forum. I don't think I'd call it "kicking someone's ass" though.


I know, and I'm fine with debating, I also like it, but what I don't like are those side kicks.
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1679911 - 05/18/11 07:58 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Attempting to get us back to the subject of FP-4F and comparables, I was wondering if the built-in speakers on the FP-4F (which aren't really very useful in my opinion other than monitors) might be replicated by a decent television sound bar mounted under one's music stand in front of the keyboard facing the pianist. If that would work, then many options for the keyboard might be available.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1679915 - 05/18/11 08:07 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Well I suppose you could connect the 1/4" output jacks to anything you want.
Do you experience listening to a digital piano sound on a television sound bar?

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