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#1679935 - 05/18/11 08:39 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8847
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Can you share with us anything we might be missing in the Kawai ES6's edge in competing with the Roland FP-4F to try to bring this thread a little bit back on track?


I'm afraid it's rather difficult for me to make comparisons between these two instruments as I have yet to play the FP-4F. What I would say, however, is that the ES6 has a very good keyboard action and surprisingly good speaker system (for a portable instrument). It's also very well built, with a stylish design. True, it's a few years old now, however the ES6 is still a very capable instrument.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1679938 - 05/18/11 08:47 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Coker]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Coker
I was wondering if the built-in speakers on the FP-4F (which aren't really very useful in my opinion other than monitors) might be replicated by a decent television sound bar mounted under one's music stand in front of the keyboard facing the pianist.

Very interesting idea, and something I hadn't considered. Speaker bars are L & R, plus often a center channel (not sure what you would do with that).

Not necessarily hi-fi though, and the high bass roll-off point would almost certainly demand the use of a subwoofer. Also, the horizontal alignment of the woofer / tweeter pair isn't ideal for phase alignment at the ears (and particularly so for ears sitting so close).
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#1679943 - 05/18/11 08:57 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
theJourney, I have no personal experience with TV sound bars, although I saw a short thread about it a few months back. If no one else has tried it, perhaps I will buy one and try it out for the sake of others here. My local electronics store has a good return policy, so no big investment.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1679945 - 05/18/11 09:01 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: dewster]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Dewster, I was thinking of this as a monitor and not as sound reinforcement. My FP-4 has speakers that are inadequate for an audience but great for monitors if the venue doesn't get too noisy. They are also not great on the low-end, so lack of bass in a sound bar isn't troubling. Maybe the separation can by tweaked, too. I'm always into portability, which is why a combination music stand / monitor appealed to me.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1679952 - 05/18/11 09:10 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Coker]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Coker
theJourney, I have no personal experience with TV sound bars, although I saw a short thread about it a few months back. If no one else has tried it, perhaps I will buy one and try it out for the sake of others here. My local electronics store has a good return policy, so no big investment.


Is what you're looking at self powered or do you have an amp to power it?

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#1679962 - 05/18/11 09:25 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Lefty Chev]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
What I've seen is self-powered. Plug it in, hook up 2 RCA plugs.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1679991 - 05/18/11 10:05 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
The keys are slow on the new model FP-4F
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

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#1680094 - 05/18/11 01:21 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
The keys are slow on the new model FP-4F


This is also my impression. Sluggish.

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#1680102 - 05/18/11 01:31 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mucci]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Hopefully we are bringing more intelligence to the discussions here than the mindless brawling of football hooligans.

Speak of the devil.

Originally Posted By: mucci
How comes that you're always kicking someone's ass...

Cue from stage left: boosterism personified, running noisily into the field of spectators in a loud Kawai jersey, swearing and with fists a'waving but with absolutely no contribution to the discussion.

Hurrah!

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#1680108 - 05/18/11 01:39 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Can you share with us anything we might be missing in the Kawai ES6's edge in competing with the Roland FP-4F to try to bring this thread a little bit back on track?

I'm afraid it's rather difficult for me to make comparisons between these two instruments as I have yet to play the FP-4F.


Hmmm. Don't shortchange yourself, James. After all, you were very quick to correct us that in your opinion, or that of Kawai, it made more sense to compare the MP6 with the RD300xX and the FP-4F with the ES6. Given your earlier reference to specific product characteristics, surely you must have based this correction on more than just your personal auditioning or a wild guess...

Feel free to tell us what your really think...if your contract with Kawai corporate actually permits you to do this...

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#1680112 - 05/18/11 01:47 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Originally Posted By: theJourney

Hmmm. Don't shortchange yourself, James. After all, you were very quick to correct us that in your opinion, or that of Kawai, it made more sense to compare the MP6 with the RD300xX and the FP-4F with the ES6. Given your earlier reference to specific product characteristics, surely you must have based this correction on more than just your personal auditioning or a wild guess...

Feel free to tell us what your really think...if your contract with Kawai corporate actually permits you to do this...


I'd say it's common sense to compare similar instruments with each other. The MP6 and RD-300NX are first and foremost, stage pianos. The FP-4F is not a stage piano really. It's more of a portable home piano, as is the case with the ES6. I've played both MP6 and RD-300NX and the MP6 blows the RD-300NX out of the water. The action of the MP6 felt nearly as good as the PHA III on the RD-700NX.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1680123 - 05/18/11 02:08 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: PianoZac]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
I'd say it's common sense to compare similar instruments with each other. The MP6 and RD-300NX are first and foremost, stage pianos.


I don't disagree with you. But, on the other hand, I was not the one suggesting making a decision between upgrading an FP-4 to an FP4-F and an MP6...that is what I meant by saying that the only segmentation that matters is what happens in the consumer's head, not in some corporate marketing conference room.

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Sounds like the Kawai MP6 has these lighter-weight Rolands licked in terms of the action. However, there is a weight premium for the Kawai. So far, what I've heard put me off upgrading my FP4 to one of the new Rolands.


Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
The FP-4F is not a stage piano really. It's more of a portable home piano, as is the case with the ES6.

You could say so.
Someone else doing a different kind of stage work could say something else.
What matters to you matters to you.
What matters to someone else matters to someone else.

Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes

I've played both MP6 and RD-300NX and the MP6 blows the RD-300NX out of the water. The action of the MP6 felt nearly as good as the PHA III on the RD-700NX.

There is one thing that I have discovered to be true during the past months of auditioning digital pianos:

For those of us not looking to be spending more time on our kit than on our music, it doesn't make sense to try to artificially separate the keyboard performance from the sound engine performance. You need to look at the total performance of the instrument.

Having said that, I would be hard pressed to actually decide to buy a RD300NX, an FP4-F or an MP6. Too many compromises.

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#1680129 - 05/18/11 02:24 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: PianoZac]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Zachary, although it's not really billed as a "stage piano," I actually use my FP-4 as one. It's really light and has a "good enough" sound engine to fit in with a couple big bands and several quartets I work with. And after droppng off my cart a few times, I'll also say it's pretty durable. Now - that being said - like you I'm always looking for something better.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1680153 - 05/18/11 03:05 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Originally Posted By: theJourney


There is one thing that I have discovered to be true during the past months of auditioning digital pianos:

For those of us not looking to be spending more time on our kit than on our music, it doesn't make sense to try to artificially separate the keyboard performance from the sound engine performance. You need to look at the total performance of the instrument.

Having said that, I would be hard pressed to actually decide to buy a RD300NX, an FP4-F or an MP6. Too many compromises.


No question there, but overall, for any serious piano player, I'd say how well the action connects to its sound engine, and how dynamic the action allows one to play is vitally important. Because most modern DPs allow for the use as a midi controller, sound seems to be falling to second in terms of what's important for the performing piano player. To me, the of the above options, the MP6 has the least amount of compromises.

*Off Topic*
For example, I had the RD-700GXF/RD-700NX (too much like the RD-700GXF to keep) and RD-300GX before deciding on going with the Nords. I chose the Nord because of the weight, sound, and flexibility. The action connects wonderfully to the sound, but lacks in feel to the Kawai/Yamaha/Rolands. However, because I had a grand to practice on, action was not as important. Now that my friend is taking his grand back to his studio, I'm on the hunt for a DP that behaves closest to a grand piano which led me to the CA93 and AvantGrand N1. Don't have the space or money for a grand worth keeping for a long time, so am settling with the next best thing.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1680157 - 05/18/11 03:14 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Coker]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Coker
Dewster, I was thinking of this as a monitor and not as sound reinforcement.

I was too, though monitors that can play loud can sometimes be used as a PA in very small venues.

Originally Posted By: Coker
I'm always into portability, which is why a combination music stand / monitor appealed to me.

Yes. I'm looking to add some monitor speakers to our RD-700NX and Quik-Lok W550 stand and am trying to figure out the best way to do this. The speaker shelves they make for the stand seem less than ideal. A squat speaker bar over the back of the DP with a music rest on top makes a lot of sense.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1680281 - 05/18/11 06:05 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8847
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Hmmm. Don't shortchange yourself, James.


Thank you!

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Feel free to tell us what your really think...if your contract with Kawai corporate actually permits you to do this...


Well, most of the time I try to provide an honest, objective opinion about the instruments being discussed on this forum. However, I tend to shy away from making simplistic 'product X is better than product Y' comparisons (especially if I have no direct playing experience with the instruments being discussed).

Experience has also taught me to avoid highlighting the negative characteristics of competitors' models, although this is based on my desire to maintain a professional, respectful attitude, rather than any suggested corporate restrictions imposed by my employer.

Of course, if you have any reason to doubt my honesty, or the validity of my posts on PW, you're most welcome to send a private message and we'll have a nice chat.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1680291 - 05/18/11 06:18 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Well, most of the time I try to provide an honest, objective opinion about the instruments being discussed on this forum. However, I tend to shy away from making simplistic 'product X is better than product Y' comparisons (especially if I have no direct playing experience with the instruments being discussed).

Experience has also taught me to avoid highlighting the negative characteristics of competitors' models, although this is based on my desire to maintain a professional, respectful attitude, rather than any suggested corporate restrictions imposed by my employer.

Of course, if you have any reason to doubt my honesty, or the validity of my posts on PW, you're most welcome to send a private message and we'll have a nice chat.

Kind regards,
James
x


Off topic, but I'd also like to add that having seen a lot of manufacturers employees on different forums for different types of products, your approach is unique and refreshing. I was really caught off guard when I first started reading your posts here. You appear to be honest and still professional and I've never felt like you were ever shilling something. That's certainly made your opinion valuable to me.

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#1680598 - 05/19/11 02:19 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: theJourney

Cue from stage left: boosterism personified, running noisily into the field of spectators in a loud Kawai jersey, swearing and with fists a'waving but with absolutely no contribution to the discussion.


Good self-portrayal, but you need to replace "Kawai jersey" with "Anti-Kawai jersey".
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1680720 - 05/19/11 08:35 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Lefty Chev]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
I'll second that. I appreciate KJ's contributions to this site.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1680775 - 05/19/11 10:30 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
The FP4 is indeed a stage piano, it's easier to transport from stage to stage than the heavier models.

The problem I have with the new FP-4F is that they keys are slow.
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

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#1683061 - 05/23/11 12:21 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2319
Loc: UK
Anyone know where the manual is online? I've tried the obvious, Roland, places.

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#1683063 - 05/23/11 12:23 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
I don't think Roland have released it yet. Could be any day now.
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"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
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#1683083 - 05/23/11 01:04 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
IMO, the FP7F has very light keys compared to let's say a Yamaha P155 (which I had before). I'm suprised that the FP4F is not equally light but maybe that means it will just have a normal weight similar to the Yammies.

Perhaps someone who's actually touched these can compare.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1683505 - 05/24/11 02:08 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
suniil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 149
Loc: London
Jazz, Is FP-4F significantly better than FP4? We have FP7F at home, but daughter may go away to boarding school later this year where she can have her own piano.

I'm thinking of getting FP4 or FP4F for her.

Originally Posted By: Jazz+
The FP4 is indeed a stage piano, it's easier to transport from stage to stage than the heavier models.

The problem I have with the new FP-4F is that they keys are slow.
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http://google.com/+gayatrinair | Chandelier

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#1683585 - 05/24/11 07:46 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: suniil]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3149
Originally Posted By: suniil
Jazz, Is FP-4F significantly better than FP4? We have FP7F at home, but daughter may go away to boarding school later this year where she can have her own piano.

I'm thinking of getting FP4 or FP4F for her.


If you only have to move it twice a year (so weight isn't so much of an issue), for less than the price of the FP4F, I'd look at the FP-7. Better action, closer to the FP7F you already have, and I think still sounds "good enough" (especially if you're comparing it to the FP-4). The added weight also has the virtue of making it a bit more theft proof, if that could be a concern.

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#1683707 - 05/24/11 11:53 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
AFAIK, apart from the internal amp/speakers, the FP4 and FP7 sound exactly the same. Through headphones they should be identical. Actions are quite different, though.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1683812 - 05/24/11 04:18 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
I find the keys on the FP-4F to be slower than the keys on the FP-4
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

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#1684251 - 05/25/11 10:28 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Manolito Mystiq Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 26
I just received my FP-4F today. As you've read, I checked out the Rolands and one Yamaha several times. There was something I liked about the P-155, and—at first—didn't like about the FP-7F. On my second try, however, the P-155 still has something fakish, to my ears. Retrying the FP7F and the FP4F, I was surprised by the weight of the keys of the latter keyboard. The deciding factor has been going on for months, so finally, I decided to go for the FP4F with stand from woodbrass.

Now that I could have check out the keyboard yet again, in my own home, I do understand the sluggishness the keyboard has, though I don't think it will cause trouble to my playing, as I'm a beginner. I'm really not worried about that at all.

I'm not really fond about the speakers, though. They have a lot of volume, but they don't seem to be powerful. It's okay up till 35%/40%, but higher than that, they sound so muffled. I thought I set my DP too close to the wall, but it seems I will spare some cash so that I can buy some good external speakers.

Now I knew this already from the stores I went. Actually, the F110 seemed better in that department, but I believe it has better on board speakers. The FP4F definitely seemed to have a better feel, though.

I probably just need to relax and enjoy what I have. I tend to have this voice in my head asking me whether I did well or not whenever my purchase is even a small investment, when it is not necessary.

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#1684263 - 05/25/11 10:51 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
You can probably get a decent set of headphones for $40-$50 that will give you much better sound than those little speakers. It's amazing what a difference that will make.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#1684301 - 05/25/11 11:54 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Coker]
Manolito Mystiq Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 26
I have great quality headphones: Denon AH-D5000. Everything sounds a lot better that way, but still not quite what I could hear from several links on youtube; also, I would like to play with speakers, as I would like to sing while playing.

I see I can tweak the equalizer. I will try some settings. The highs look like they're toned down a bit, even though the gain is set at +12, while the mids could use a bit of a boost.

Has anyone tweaked those on a Roland FP piano?

The standard settings:

LO: GN 0, FQ 100
LM: GN 0, FQ 500, Q 2.0
HM: GN 0, FQ 1.25k, Q 2.0
HI: GN 12, FQ 8.0k

Again, I probably need to get used to the new DP. I had my EM-20 for years (since 1998).

Mano

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