Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#1672408 - 05/06/11 07:52 AM Roland FP4F
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Hi,

Is this piano any good? I used to own the standard FP4 and that was a nice piano I must admit, the only complaint I would have is the lighter than normal keyboard action, alpha something or other it was called. I was wondering if the new ivory-G keyboard is just as light or heavier and more responsive? Also are the onboard speakers loud enough for gigging at venues like weddings and restaurants etc.. without need for external amps?

I currently own the HP307 by Roland

Thanks smile

Mark
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Your Next Keyboard is at Sweetwater

Click Here


#1672452 - 05/06/11 09:15 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Nbrooks Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 8
Hi mwf,

The FP4F is only just making its way into stores, so it's unlikely many people would have seen it physically. I'm hoping to go see it this weekend - I'll report back if I do!

Nick

Top
#1674079 - 05/09/11 12:47 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
bump

Top
#1674095 - 05/09/11 01:42 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
theJourney, thank you for your recent very detailed and nice comments...
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

Top
#1674196 - 05/09/11 07:51 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Nbrooks Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 8
I had high hopes for the FP4F and wasn't impressed. The onboard speakers just don't do anything for me - the FP7F sounds way, way, better. Action was also not that great.

Top
#1674231 - 05/09/11 08:48 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Thanks for reporting back! Still no sign of any here.

I would be very surprised to see on an instrument with an action and speakers that are designed primarily to be portable and lower cost that they would be as good as those on an instrument not designed to be as cheap and portable. That is kind of the idea (just as it was on the old FP4 versus FP7).

Could you describe the difference in feel between the Ivory Feel-G on the FP4-F and the Ivory Feel-S on the FP-F?
Is it much lighter to play? Less responsive?

I am thinking that you would have to have a bad back or be gigging every week for the difference in cost and difference in action quality to make up for the difference in size and weight. But then again, bringing an FP-7F on board an airplane as carryon or non-penalized luggage is an impossibility where there are numerous stories of people getting their FP-4 on board even as carryon. And, if you are only playing the board outside occasionally, I guess having a lesser action would not be a big deal. A bigger deal would be not being able to get it where you need it to be.

Anyone else have any luck playing one of these?


Edited by theJourney (05/09/11 08:49 AM)

Top
#1674352 - 05/09/11 12:33 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
Nbrooks Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 8
Of course, I didn't expect the 4F to sound as good as the 7F - but I was surprised by the differential.

I can't comment too much on the actions (they were at different heights) but they 7F felt better - slightly more weighty I think.

Top
#1674373 - 05/09/11 01:13 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
I can comment on the actions between the PHA II Alpha keys inside the FP-4/RD-300GX and the Ivory Feel-G keys on the FP-4F/RD-300NX since I owned the 300GX and played the 300NX. To sum it up in 3 words...much much better. The Ivory Feel-G keys/action are the single biggest improvement to me between the FP-4/RD-300GX and their newest versions. I didn't like the PHA II Alpha keys at all really, but I'd love to stick the Ivory Feel-G keys in my NP88. cool Much better feel, much more control, and much less spongy feeling than the PHA II Alpha keys.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Top
#1674391 - 05/09/11 01:46 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
I have one and I find the new action is too stiff. I hate it and think I am going to return it. It's like a piano with massive friction in its action.
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

Top
#1674399 - 05/09/11 02:04 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
I have one and I find the new action is too stiff. I hate it and think I am going to return it. It's like a piano with massive friction in its action.


I didn't find this to be the case at all. For a lightweight stage piano, the RD-300NX/FP-4F have one of the best actions out. The RD-700NX/FP-7F's PHA III action is a bit 'stiffer' than the Ivory Feel-G action in the 300NX/FP-4F. If you want a lighter 'weighted' Hammer action then look at the NE3HP or the NP88.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Top
#1674413 - 05/09/11 02:26 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2993
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>> I have one and I find the new action is too stiff. I hate it and think I am going to return it. It's like a piano with massive friction in its action.

that's scary.
I tried the 300NX for a few minutes and thought it was great.

I wonder if

- you got a defective unit.
- Or NX is not like FP.
- I didn't try long enough.



Edited by knotty (05/09/11 02:27 PM)

Top
#1674498 - 05/09/11 05:17 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: knotty]
Manolito Mystiq Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 26
So ... hi, everyone.

I am trying to a get a new digital piano. It will be my first (I don't think you can count the Roland EM-20 I got from my brother).

Anyway, I have played real acoustic upright (and grand) pianos at the Conservatoire, and every DP I checked, I wasn't sold immediately.

Several months ago, I tried the FP4, F110, FP7F, and the Yamaha P155 in a store, but didn't buy anything.
Now I checked them all as well as the FP4F, as it was now available as well (being the very first one to check the instrument).

I was surprised that the keys felt even weightier (in a good way) than the FP7F, but then again, I checked it as brand new, while the 7F is there for a while.

I couldn't really tell the difference between the sounds, compared to the 7F; I still feel that I just don't like the sound. It might be the speakers (but I felt the same for the 7F). I think it doesn't matter what DP with speakers I will buy, though (or I should buy the V-Piano).

The P155 has something...real. The keys are good, which helps; on the other hand, it has this fakish sound too (but I checked with headphones).

I sometimes feel I should just go for the all-in-one F110 and buy EW Pianos, and hook it up on my computer. I believe I will have superior sound to even the 7F that way, but then I'm stuck with using the computer, or using the on board piano sound (which to me, doesn't sound all that bad).

Tough to decide...


Edited by Manolito Mystiq (05/09/11 05:33 PM)

Top
#1679518 - 05/17/11 05:00 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Well, I got my hands on a FP-4F this week.

The keyboard definitely does not feel like the FP-4 and seems to be quite an improvement on it.
However, it is not near as satisfying or seductive to play as the PHA-III in my HP-307 although it is quite expressive.
It feels to be much heavier than the PHA-III and in this respect feels more like my Kawai RX-2, although it is more sluggish.
The dynamic control on the sound does not seem as natural and butter-like as on the PHA-III/HP-307, but the basic sounds are similar and the speakers put out a lot of sound!

All in all it seems like a good deal for a portable instrument with a decent keyboard and great sounds in an all in one package with onboard speakers.

If you don't mind the extra size and weight and won't be moving it around too much and can afford the extra cost, the FP7-F might be a better choice. But for something that is easy to throw in the car and take where you want, this is it.


Edited by theJourney (05/17/11 05:03 PM)

Top
#1679519 - 05/17/11 05:04 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Well, I got my hands on a FP-4F this week.

The keyboard definitely does not feel like the FP-4 and seems to be quite an improvement on it.
However, it is not near as satisfying or seductive to play as the PHA-III in my HP-307 although it is quite expressive.
It feels to be much heavier than the PHA-III and in this respect feels more like my Kawai RX-2, although it is more sluggish.
The dynamic control on the sound does not seem as natural and butter-like as on the PHA-III/HP-307, but the basic sounds are similar and the speakers put out a lot of sound!

All in all it seems like a good deal for a portable instrument with a decent keyboard and great sounds in an all in one package with onboard speakers.

If you don't mind the extra size and weight and won't be moving it around too much and can afford the extra cost, the FP7-F might be a better choice. But for something that is easy to throw in the car and take where you want, this is it.


How does the action on your HP-307 compare to the RX-2 grand?
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Top
#1679526 - 05/17/11 05:20 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Much lighter with a more hollow, playing-on-the-side-of-a-cardboard-box feeling, but with the similar satisfying feedback of being able to articulate a lot of what I want when I have my headphones on and the volume turned up.

PHA-III and Supernatural is nice, but the real thing is a lot nicer.

Top
#1679546 - 05/17/11 05:44 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2357
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Well, I got my hands on a FP-4F this week.

The keyboard definitely does not feel like the FP-4 and seems to be quite an improvement on it.
However, it is not near as satisfying or seductive to play as the PHA-III in my HP-307 although it is quite expressive.
It feels to be much heavier than the PHA-III and in this respect feels more like my Kawai RX-2, although it is more sluggish.
The dynamic control on the sound does not seem as natural and butter-like as on the PHA-III/HP-307, but the basic sounds are similar and the speakers put out a lot of sound!

All in all it seems like a good deal for a portable instrument with a decent keyboard and great sounds in an all in one package with onboard speakers.

If you don't mind the extra size and weight and won't be moving it around too much and can afford the extra cost, the FP7-F might be a better choice. But for something that is easy to throw in the car and take where you want, this is it.


Thanks for that theJourney. I'm still waiting for my chance to try one. Sounds quite 'ok' at a distance but, of course, need to check my own impressions. Any one else got some personal feedback?

Top
#1679550 - 05/17/11 05:47 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
I have one and I find the new action is too stiff. I hate it and think I am going to return it. It's like a piano with massive friction in its action.


Yes, maybe that is what I am interpreting as weight. At times it almost feels like the spring loading one feels in the little Yamaha NP-30s but then stiffer and with the escapement bump.

Top
#1679595 - 05/17/11 06:43 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3047
Loc: Oregon
Sounds like the Kawai MP6 has these lighter-weight Rolands licked in terms of the action. However, there is a weight premium for the Kawai. So far, what I've heard put me off upgrading my FP4 to one of the new Rolands.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

Top
#1679805 - 05/18/11 02:23 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: voxpops]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Sounds like the Kawai MP6 has these lighter-weight Rolands licked in terms of the action. However, there is a weight premium for the Kawai. So far, what I've heard put me off upgrading my FP4 to one of the new Rolands.


I haven't been able to play an MP6 next to an FP-4F, but there are any number of aspects to consider that may or may not be important to the individual user considering trading their FP-4 for a new FP-4F or considering an MP6. First off is that the new FP-4F seems to have less features: the sound effects panel section is gone. Then there are the considerations of whether you like the new action or not (on balance I definitely do compared to the old alpha action). Finally, there are the considerations of practicality and usability:

Weight and Portability
Well, the FP4-F weighs in at 16.6 kg while the MP6 is 21.5 kg, which is half way on its way to weighing as much as the FP-7F, weighing 24 kg, the keyboard of which compares favorably to the huge and hugely heavy MP10.
In practice, when flying and checking a digital piano as luggage, the MP6 with case will always incur an overweight charge (anything over 21kg) where the FP-4F may be able to be checked in without paying this charge of between $125 to $450 each way.

Linear Dimensions and Portability
The linear dimensions of the Roland are also more compact than the Kawai: 1355 x 347 x 181 =1883 for the MP6 and 1342 x 305 x 135 =1782 for the Roland. Both exceed the maximum linear dimensions of 1547 for checked luggage already without their case. However, the Roland is shorter in every dimension and in particular in the most important and constraining dimension: the length of the keyboard. There have been multiple reports of putting FP4s into tight fitting soft gig cases and people sweet talking their way into bringing them on board for free as fragile musical instruments carry-ons. I remember no such stories of people successfully bringing their MP5s on board as carry-on.

Ease and Portability
These are two very different instruments with likely different users. Someone doing solo or pickup gigging for weddings, bar mitzvahs, golden anniversaries and quinceañeras has everything they need already packed within the FP4-F with its speakers on board aimed squarely at the audience. The MP6 on the other hand requires another case with all the other equipment needed from amplifiers to speakers and cables, etc. Not only will that take up another set of hands that a solo player does not have but will also take up another luggage charge.

Top
#1679810 - 05/18/11 02:34 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9152
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hmm...wouldn't the RD-300NX have been a closer comparison with the MP6?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1679822 - 05/18/11 03:07 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Hmm...wouldn't the RD-300NX have been a closer comparison with the MP6?

Cheers,
James
x


I would think so, yes.
What Kawai model is best positioned to compete with the FP-4F, in your opinion?

Top
#1679825 - 05/18/11 03:39 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9152
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Well, there isn't a like-for-like Kawai instrument to compete with the FP-4F, however the ES6 is arguably the closest comparison model due to the built-in speakers. This model is obviously a few years older than the FP-4F, though, and does not feature the latest keyboard action/sound technology.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1679840 - 05/18/11 04:39 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Well, there isn't a like-for-like Kawai instrument to compete with the FP-4F, however the ES6 is arguably the closest comparison model due to the built-in speakers. This model is obviously a few years older than the FP-4F, though, and does not feature the latest keyboard action/sound technology.

Cheers,
James
x

Yes, the ES6 is getting a bit long in the teeth. I would have thought that the ES6 which is just as heavy as the MP6 but with older keybed and older sound was more of a home piano rather than a solo gigging piano. Anyone here use an ES6 for gigging?

You can't fault potential customers for wanting to give Kawai a chance (by looking at the latest and greatest MP6), even if there isn't anything comparable and competitive in the line up. It speaks volumes about the respect that Kawai commands from many keyboardists and pianists.

Manufacturers can do all the segmenting they want, but the only segments that count are the ones in the consumer's head.

Roland seems to have a line of products that attempt to bridge the gap between he home segment and the professional segment that don't seem to be on the radar screen of Kawai.

Top
#1679844 - 05/18/11 04:52 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9152
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Remind me, how do you say "damning with faint praise" in Dutch again? wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1679859 - 05/18/11 05:54 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Remind me, how do you say "damning with faint praise" in Dutch again? wink

James
x


I have no idea. As far as I know there is no direct translation.

Sayings and idioms are generally tightly tied to culture.
This expression is clearly as English as one can be, coming as it does from a centuries-old literature reference from one of England's fine poets Alexander Pope.

The issue here is not one of boosterism-like cheerleading vs. damning. Hopefully we are bringing more intelligence to the discussions here than the mindless brawling of football hooligans.

Instead the issue is one of examining very concrete and relevant product features that make instruments appropriate or inappropriate for the specific tasks and workflows of potential users. E.g. a slab either has speakers or it doesn't, it is either light enough to check free of charge as luggage or it isn't, it either has a sufficiently expressive keybed that one judges for himself is a pleasure to play or it doesn't, etc.

Can you share with us anything we might be missing in the Kawai ES6's edge in competing with the Roland FP-4F to try to bring this thread a little bit back on track?

Top
#1679880 - 05/18/11 06:49 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Hopefully we are bringing more intelligence to the discussions here than the mindless brawling of football hooligans.


How comes that you're always kicking someone's ass...
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

Top
#1679893 - 05/18/11 07:25 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Ken Knapp Online   content



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2234
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think theJourney just likes to debate. Like many others on the forum. I don't think I'd call it "kicking someone's ass" though.
_________________________
Ken

Piano Organ Depot
http://www.pianoorgandepot.com
Hammond Organ Technician
http://www.tonewheeltech.com
Vice President - MITA, International
http://www.mitatechs.org
http://www.facebook.com/MITATechs

Top
#1679901 - 05/18/11 07:46 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Ken Knapp]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
I think theJourney just likes to debate. Like many others on the forum. I don't think I'd call it "kicking someone's ass" though.


I know, and I'm fine with debating, I also like it, but what I don't like are those side kicks.
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

Top
#1679911 - 05/18/11 07:58 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 196
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Attempting to get us back to the subject of FP-4F and comparables, I was wondering if the built-in speakers on the FP-4F (which aren't really very useful in my opinion other than monitors) might be replicated by a decent television sound bar mounted under one's music stand in front of the keyboard facing the pianist. If that would work, then many options for the keyboard might be available.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

Top
#1679915 - 05/18/11 08:07 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Well I suppose you could connect the 1/4" output jacks to anything you want.
Do you experience listening to a digital piano sound on a television sound bar?

Top
#1679935 - 05/18/11 08:39 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9152
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Can you share with us anything we might be missing in the Kawai ES6's edge in competing with the Roland FP-4F to try to bring this thread a little bit back on track?


I'm afraid it's rather difficult for me to make comparisons between these two instruments as I have yet to play the FP-4F. What I would say, however, is that the ES6 has a very good keyboard action and surprisingly good speaker system (for a portable instrument). It's also very well built, with a stylish design. True, it's a few years old now, however the ES6 is still a very capable instrument.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1679938 - 05/18/11 08:47 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Coker]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Coker
I was wondering if the built-in speakers on the FP-4F (which aren't really very useful in my opinion other than monitors) might be replicated by a decent television sound bar mounted under one's music stand in front of the keyboard facing the pianist.

Very interesting idea, and something I hadn't considered. Speaker bars are L & R, plus often a center channel (not sure what you would do with that).

Not necessarily hi-fi though, and the high bass roll-off point would almost certainly demand the use of a subwoofer. Also, the horizontal alignment of the woofer / tweeter pair isn't ideal for phase alignment at the ears (and particularly so for ears sitting so close).
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1679943 - 05/18/11 08:57 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 196
Loc: Connecticut,USA
theJourney, I have no personal experience with TV sound bars, although I saw a short thread about it a few months back. If no one else has tried it, perhaps I will buy one and try it out for the sake of others here. My local electronics store has a good return policy, so no big investment.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

Top
#1679945 - 05/18/11 09:01 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: dewster]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 196
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Dewster, I was thinking of this as a monitor and not as sound reinforcement. My FP-4 has speakers that are inadequate for an audience but great for monitors if the venue doesn't get too noisy. They are also not great on the low-end, so lack of bass in a sound bar isn't troubling. Maybe the separation can by tweaked, too. I'm always into portability, which is why a combination music stand / monitor appealed to me.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

Top
#1679952 - 05/18/11 09:10 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Coker]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Coker
theJourney, I have no personal experience with TV sound bars, although I saw a short thread about it a few months back. If no one else has tried it, perhaps I will buy one and try it out for the sake of others here. My local electronics store has a good return policy, so no big investment.


Is what you're looking at self powered or do you have an amp to power it?

Top
#1679962 - 05/18/11 09:25 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Lefty Chev]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 196
Loc: Connecticut,USA
What I've seen is self-powered. Plug it in, hook up 2 RCA plugs.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

Top
#1679991 - 05/18/11 10:05 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
The keys are slow on the new model FP-4F
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

Top
#1680094 - 05/18/11 01:21 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
The keys are slow on the new model FP-4F


This is also my impression. Sluggish.

Top
#1680102 - 05/18/11 01:31 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mucci]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Hopefully we are bringing more intelligence to the discussions here than the mindless brawling of football hooligans.

Speak of the devil.

Originally Posted By: mucci
How comes that you're always kicking someone's ass...

Cue from stage left: boosterism personified, running noisily into the field of spectators in a loud Kawai jersey, swearing and with fists a'waving but with absolutely no contribution to the discussion.

Hurrah!

Top
#1680108 - 05/18/11 01:39 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Can you share with us anything we might be missing in the Kawai ES6's edge in competing with the Roland FP-4F to try to bring this thread a little bit back on track?

I'm afraid it's rather difficult for me to make comparisons between these two instruments as I have yet to play the FP-4F.


Hmmm. Don't shortchange yourself, James. After all, you were very quick to correct us that in your opinion, or that of Kawai, it made more sense to compare the MP6 with the RD300xX and the FP-4F with the ES6. Given your earlier reference to specific product characteristics, surely you must have based this correction on more than just your personal auditioning or a wild guess...

Feel free to tell us what your really think...if your contract with Kawai corporate actually permits you to do this...

Top
#1680112 - 05/18/11 01:47 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Originally Posted By: theJourney

Hmmm. Don't shortchange yourself, James. After all, you were very quick to correct us that in your opinion, or that of Kawai, it made more sense to compare the MP6 with the RD300xX and the FP-4F with the ES6. Given your earlier reference to specific product characteristics, surely you must have based this correction on more than just your personal auditioning or a wild guess...

Feel free to tell us what your really think...if your contract with Kawai corporate actually permits you to do this...


I'd say it's common sense to compare similar instruments with each other. The MP6 and RD-300NX are first and foremost, stage pianos. The FP-4F is not a stage piano really. It's more of a portable home piano, as is the case with the ES6. I've played both MP6 and RD-300NX and the MP6 blows the RD-300NX out of the water. The action of the MP6 felt nearly as good as the PHA III on the RD-700NX.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Top
#1680123 - 05/18/11 02:08 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: PianoZac]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
I'd say it's common sense to compare similar instruments with each other. The MP6 and RD-300NX are first and foremost, stage pianos.


I don't disagree with you. But, on the other hand, I was not the one suggesting making a decision between upgrading an FP-4 to an FP4-F and an MP6...that is what I meant by saying that the only segmentation that matters is what happens in the consumer's head, not in some corporate marketing conference room.

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Sounds like the Kawai MP6 has these lighter-weight Rolands licked in terms of the action. However, there is a weight premium for the Kawai. So far, what I've heard put me off upgrading my FP4 to one of the new Rolands.


Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
The FP-4F is not a stage piano really. It's more of a portable home piano, as is the case with the ES6.

You could say so.
Someone else doing a different kind of stage work could say something else.
What matters to you matters to you.
What matters to someone else matters to someone else.

Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes

I've played both MP6 and RD-300NX and the MP6 blows the RD-300NX out of the water. The action of the MP6 felt nearly as good as the PHA III on the RD-700NX.

There is one thing that I have discovered to be true during the past months of auditioning digital pianos:

For those of us not looking to be spending more time on our kit than on our music, it doesn't make sense to try to artificially separate the keyboard performance from the sound engine performance. You need to look at the total performance of the instrument.

Having said that, I would be hard pressed to actually decide to buy a RD300NX, an FP4-F or an MP6. Too many compromises.

Top
#1680129 - 05/18/11 02:24 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: PianoZac]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 196
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Zachary, although it's not really billed as a "stage piano," I actually use my FP-4 as one. It's really light and has a "good enough" sound engine to fit in with a couple big bands and several quartets I work with. And after droppng off my cart a few times, I'll also say it's pretty durable. Now - that being said - like you I'm always looking for something better.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

Top
#1680153 - 05/18/11 03:05 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Originally Posted By: theJourney


There is one thing that I have discovered to be true during the past months of auditioning digital pianos:

For those of us not looking to be spending more time on our kit than on our music, it doesn't make sense to try to artificially separate the keyboard performance from the sound engine performance. You need to look at the total performance of the instrument.

Having said that, I would be hard pressed to actually decide to buy a RD300NX, an FP4-F or an MP6. Too many compromises.


No question there, but overall, for any serious piano player, I'd say how well the action connects to its sound engine, and how dynamic the action allows one to play is vitally important. Because most modern DPs allow for the use as a midi controller, sound seems to be falling to second in terms of what's important for the performing piano player. To me, the of the above options, the MP6 has the least amount of compromises.

*Off Topic*
For example, I had the RD-700GXF/RD-700NX (too much like the RD-700GXF to keep) and RD-300GX before deciding on going with the Nords. I chose the Nord because of the weight, sound, and flexibility. The action connects wonderfully to the sound, but lacks in feel to the Kawai/Yamaha/Rolands. However, because I had a grand to practice on, action was not as important. Now that my friend is taking his grand back to his studio, I'm on the hunt for a DP that behaves closest to a grand piano which led me to the CA93 and AvantGrand N1. Don't have the space or money for a grand worth keeping for a long time, so am settling with the next best thing.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Top
#1680157 - 05/18/11 03:14 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Coker]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Coker
Dewster, I was thinking of this as a monitor and not as sound reinforcement.

I was too, though monitors that can play loud can sometimes be used as a PA in very small venues.

Originally Posted By: Coker
I'm always into portability, which is why a combination music stand / monitor appealed to me.

Yes. I'm looking to add some monitor speakers to our RD-700NX and Quik-Lok W550 stand and am trying to figure out the best way to do this. The speaker shelves they make for the stand seem less than ideal. A squat speaker bar over the back of the DP with a music rest on top makes a lot of sense.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1680281 - 05/18/11 06:05 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9152
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Hmmm. Don't shortchange yourself, James.


Thank you!

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Feel free to tell us what your really think...if your contract with Kawai corporate actually permits you to do this...


Well, most of the time I try to provide an honest, objective opinion about the instruments being discussed on this forum. However, I tend to shy away from making simplistic 'product X is better than product Y' comparisons (especially if I have no direct playing experience with the instruments being discussed).

Experience has also taught me to avoid highlighting the negative characteristics of competitors' models, although this is based on my desire to maintain a professional, respectful attitude, rather than any suggested corporate restrictions imposed by my employer.

Of course, if you have any reason to doubt my honesty, or the validity of my posts on PW, you're most welcome to send a private message and we'll have a nice chat.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1680291 - 05/18/11 06:18 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Well, most of the time I try to provide an honest, objective opinion about the instruments being discussed on this forum. However, I tend to shy away from making simplistic 'product X is better than product Y' comparisons (especially if I have no direct playing experience with the instruments being discussed).

Experience has also taught me to avoid highlighting the negative characteristics of competitors' models, although this is based on my desire to maintain a professional, respectful attitude, rather than any suggested corporate restrictions imposed by my employer.

Of course, if you have any reason to doubt my honesty, or the validity of my posts on PW, you're most welcome to send a private message and we'll have a nice chat.

Kind regards,
James
x


Off topic, but I'd also like to add that having seen a lot of manufacturers employees on different forums for different types of products, your approach is unique and refreshing. I was really caught off guard when I first started reading your posts here. You appear to be honest and still professional and I've never felt like you were ever shilling something. That's certainly made your opinion valuable to me.

Top
#1680598 - 05/19/11 02:19 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: theJourney]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: theJourney

Cue from stage left: boosterism personified, running noisily into the field of spectators in a loud Kawai jersey, swearing and with fists a'waving but with absolutely no contribution to the discussion.


Good self-portrayal, but you need to replace "Kawai jersey" with "Anti-Kawai jersey".
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

Top
#1680720 - 05/19/11 08:35 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Lefty Chev]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 196
Loc: Connecticut,USA
I'll second that. I appreciate KJ's contributions to this site.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

Top
#1680775 - 05/19/11 10:30 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
The FP4 is indeed a stage piano, it's easier to transport from stage to stage than the heavier models.

The problem I have with the new FP-4F is that they keys are slow.
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

Top
#1683061 - 05/23/11 12:21 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2357
Loc: UK
Anyone know where the manual is online? I've tried the obvious, Roland, places.

Top
#1683063 - 05/23/11 12:23 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3047
Loc: Oregon
I don't think Roland have released it yet. Could be any day now.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

Top
#1683083 - 05/23/11 01:04 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
IMO, the FP7F has very light keys compared to let's say a Yamaha P155 (which I had before). I'm suprised that the FP4F is not equally light but maybe that means it will just have a normal weight similar to the Yammies.

Perhaps someone who's actually touched these can compare.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

Top
#1683505 - 05/24/11 02:08 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Jazz+]
suniil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 149
Loc: London
Jazz, Is FP-4F significantly better than FP4? We have FP7F at home, but daughter may go away to boarding school later this year where she can have her own piano.

I'm thinking of getting FP4 or FP4F for her.

Originally Posted By: Jazz+
The FP4 is indeed a stage piano, it's easier to transport from stage to stage than the heavier models.

The problem I have with the new FP-4F is that they keys are slow.
_________________________
http://google.com/+gayatrinair | Chandelier

Top
#1683585 - 05/24/11 07:46 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: suniil]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3214
Originally Posted By: suniil
Jazz, Is FP-4F significantly better than FP4? We have FP7F at home, but daughter may go away to boarding school later this year where she can have her own piano.

I'm thinking of getting FP4 or FP4F for her.


If you only have to move it twice a year (so weight isn't so much of an issue), for less than the price of the FP4F, I'd look at the FP-7. Better action, closer to the FP7F you already have, and I think still sounds "good enough" (especially if you're comparing it to the FP-4). The added weight also has the virtue of making it a bit more theft proof, if that could be a concern.

Top
#1683707 - 05/24/11 11:53 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3047
Loc: Oregon
AFAIK, apart from the internal amp/speakers, the FP4 and FP7 sound exactly the same. Through headphones they should be identical. Actions are quite different, though.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

Top
#1683812 - 05/24/11 04:18 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
I find the keys on the FP-4F to be slower than the keys on the FP-4
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

Top
#1684251 - 05/25/11 10:28 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Manolito Mystiq Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 26
I just received my FP-4F today. As you've read, I checked out the Rolands and one Yamaha several times. There was something I liked about the P-155, and—at first—didn't like about the FP-7F. On my second try, however, the P-155 still has something fakish, to my ears. Retrying the FP7F and the FP4F, I was surprised by the weight of the keys of the latter keyboard. The deciding factor has been going on for months, so finally, I decided to go for the FP4F with stand from woodbrass.

Now that I could have check out the keyboard yet again, in my own home, I do understand the sluggishness the keyboard has, though I don't think it will cause trouble to my playing, as I'm a beginner. I'm really not worried about that at all.

I'm not really fond about the speakers, though. They have a lot of volume, but they don't seem to be powerful. It's okay up till 35%/40%, but higher than that, they sound so muffled. I thought I set my DP too close to the wall, but it seems I will spare some cash so that I can buy some good external speakers.

Now I knew this already from the stores I went. Actually, the F110 seemed better in that department, but I believe it has better on board speakers. The FP4F definitely seemed to have a better feel, though.

I probably just need to relax and enjoy what I have. I tend to have this voice in my head asking me whether I did well or not whenever my purchase is even a small investment, when it is not necessary.

Top
#1684263 - 05/25/11 10:51 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 196
Loc: Connecticut,USA
You can probably get a decent set of headphones for $40-$50 that will give you much better sound than those little speakers. It's amazing what a difference that will make.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

Top
#1684301 - 05/25/11 11:54 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Coker]
Manolito Mystiq Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 26
I have great quality headphones: Denon AH-D5000. Everything sounds a lot better that way, but still not quite what I could hear from several links on youtube; also, I would like to play with speakers, as I would like to sing while playing.

I see I can tweak the equalizer. I will try some settings. The highs look like they're toned down a bit, even though the gain is set at +12, while the mids could use a bit of a boost.

Has anyone tweaked those on a Roland FP piano?

The standard settings:

LO: GN 0, FQ 100
LM: GN 0, FQ 500, Q 2.0
HM: GN 0, FQ 1.25k, Q 2.0
HI: GN 12, FQ 8.0k

Again, I probably need to get used to the new DP. I had my EM-20 for years (since 1998).

Mano

Top
#1684823 - 05/26/11 07:50 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
Higs gain +12dB is by default? it's like 4 times boosted... in my FP-4 (without F) it is zero'ed.
_________________________
Roland FP-4

Top
#1684841 - 05/26/11 08:36 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: kiedysktos.]
Manolito Mystiq Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 26
Yeah, I guess it's wrong, but it was set that way when I checked it the first time.

By the way, the more I play on my FP-4F, the more I'm loving it. I was probably expecting too much from a DP at this price range. It sounds ten times better than my old trusty Roland EM-20, but I got so familiar by that sound—because of it hating it as well—that it might be the reason for not accepting this change of sound, the first day I had the FP-4F at home; and a good set of external speakers will probably do wonders.

Thoughts did go round my mind, though: couldn't I've gone for the FP-7F, because of the better on board speakers? Or the affordable, but quality F-110? Then I realize that I would've had similar thoughts if I'd bought the F-110: wouldn't it have been better to go for the FP-4F? These are things you always come across even having checked countless of times in stores.



Edited by Manolito Mystiq (05/26/11 08:36 AM)

Top
#1691397 - 06/06/11 01:31 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2357
Loc: UK
I had the chance to play an FP-4F in a store today using inbuilt speakers and next to a FP-7F. I would just confirm that the speakers really do seem to let it down compared to the 7F, but maybe it's OK or comparable, using the main SN piano, through external speakers or headphones. I thought the 7F speakers were quite good, and yet have seen criticism of them elsewhere in the forum.

As a 18 month now beginner, I thought the keyboard was fine, but again in comparison to the 7F I can see why some people say it's a bit slow or sluggish.

Both keyboards seemed to have less clunk or thump than I was expecting from Roland.

OT, I did like the 7F though.

Top
#1691865 - 06/07/11 09:33 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: spanishbuddha]
Manolito Mystiq Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 26
As I mentioned earlier, I have high quality headphones. I just feel, that just like with using headphones playing electric guitar, it feels a bit off, which is strange, as when you hear guitar in a mix of a song, it sounds pretty good, but then again, my mixing skills are at a beginner's stage.

The onboard speakers are indeed not decent enough. They sound like it's covered with something. Unlike you, however, I'm just starting with piano. I have played on some grands and uprights at the Conservatory, but I don't feel I've done it often enough to be able to distinguish action clearly. I felt the 7F had a lighter action. After several days trying out my 4F, I notice that it's hard to play very fast repeated notes, maybe even impossible at not that of a fast rate already, but other than that I don't feel there would be a problem.

Top
#1692204 - 06/07/11 08:29 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
geekgurl Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 6
I've played the RD-300NX (same keybed as FP-4F as I understand) and now have a Roland FP-4 (the old one) at home. I tried the RD300NX at length in a local music store, with headphones. I thought it sounded great ... but the action seemed to bottom out too hard for me. Roland's RD700 actions have felt that way to me for quite some time, both previous model and the new one. This wears on my hands after a while, and I knew the new NX would spell trouble for me down the line.

I have a usually-dormant chronic injury/disability (see my recent thread about thoracic outlet if you're so inclined) but have no problem playing for hours and hours on acoustic pianos ... really never had any problems on any acoustic I've ever come across. Digital pianos, OTOH ... anyway, I bought a previous-generation FP-4 based on my comparison of actions on the RD300NX and GX and recall loving the GX. To me, it really feels great and connects with the sound. However, now I am experiencing pain, but I think that's unique to me.

I've heard other pianists, including Jazz+, say they prefer the action on the previous FP4 over the new one. And the reason I am restricting my evaluations to the FP4s (as opposed to FP7s) is, that is the weight range of keyboard that I can schlep to gigs. I'm petite and don't want to schlep more than, say 37lbs. So I make the compromise in feel. I have acoustics at home to practice on.


Edited by geekgurl (06/07/11 08:32 PM)

Top
#1696058 - 06/15/11 12:38 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
johnmok Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/11
Posts: 21
i have tried both fp-4f and fp-7f again today in local music store.

fp-4f's speaker is not as good as that of 7f, the sound come out of fp-4f is muddy, like covering several cloth on normal speaker, and the action, is better than fp-4 a lot, but still not as good as that of 7f, keys of 4f are really a bit slow type, 7f have lighter key, but it really provide a real feel of piano key, this is difficult to describe, people who are interested need to compare the two on their own, for the small price difference, i will definitely go for fp-7f, if mobility is not a big issue, the key feel and the speaker worth the extra IMO
_________________________
YAMAHA PSR-E423 / KORG microSTATION / Roland FP-7F

Top
#1696342 - 06/16/11 09:59 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
btcomm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 274
Loc: California
johnmok ----------

Since you have tried out both the fp-4f and 7f I'll try asking the question again (I haven't been able to try out the 7f). Does the 7f have a hard bottoming out effect when pressing down the keys like the older 7 does? I'm guessing that players that have tried out the newer 7f haven't compared it to the older 7.

Top
#1697349 - 06/18/11 05:01 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: geekgurl]
YoungH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 26
Loc: CA, USA
geekguri,

Your recent thread on Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS) is of great interest to me. Having sustained "deQuervain tendinitis" in both wrists several years ago has heightened my awareness of the issue of wrist pain, as well as alertness for potential problems that may lead to wrist pain. For my "deQuervain tendinitis", all kinds of physical therapies could not rid myself of my wrist pain. Eventually I resorted to taking steroid shot. Fortunately, the steroid shot worked for both wrists. However, my hand surgeon has warned me that, at the wrist, I cannot take more than 2 steroid shots in my lifetime.

As I prepare to learn to play piano, having an appropriate keyboard that will not give me nagging wrist pain from piano practice is very much in my mind. For this reason, I have paid quite a bit of attention to the keyboard action when I browse through the communications in this forum. In an earlier thread, a student, at the advise of his concert pianist mother, chose the Roland FP4 because it seems to have a "softer bottoming" (not a quote) than FP7. I suspect that you might have chosen FP4 also for the same reason.

Question: Did you also test keyboards from Yamaha and Kawai in your last round of testing keyboards? Sound quality aside, would you have chosen a Yamaha or a Kawai keyboard that has softer bottoming?





Edited by YoungH (06/18/11 05:05 AM)

Top
#1703346 - 06/28/11 01:12 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: YoungH]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5 (home use) , RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers

Top
#1935131 - 07/31/12 05:00 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Artur Gajewski Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 304
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
I would love to get the FP-4F just because of my budget, but if the sound from the in-built speakers are as horrible as on F-120 then I might just save up some more and get the FP-7F instead. Speakers on top DO matter and FP-4F has them inside or below the keys, not sure which.
_________________________
- Artur Gajewski

Author of Piano Lessons Package for Synthesia & Child's Piano Play

Top
#1935154 - 07/31/12 06:36 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3214
I agree with johnmok. The FP-7F is SO much better than the FP-4F, for the relatively small price difference, that there is no reason to buy an FP-4F except for low weight. And if that's the issue, unless you needs some of the Roland's non-piano features, I'd rather have a Numa Piano, which weighs far less, and, to my ears, sounds better. A bit cheaper, too. I'm not thrilled with the Numa action, I find it sluggish, but while it is different, I wouldn't say the FP-4F action is really any better. (But if you need built in speakers, the Numa does not have them.)

Top
#1935588 - 08/01/12 12:42 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
moleskincrusher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 172
I have a Numa Piano but would advise waiting for the Casio PX-150/350 slated for stores this fall. Only 1 lb heavier than the Numa and could turn out to be much better in every way.

Top
#1935594 - 08/01/12 12:52 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: moleskincrusher]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3214
Originally Posted By: moleskincrusher
I have a Numa Piano but would advise waiting for the Casio PX-150/350 slated for stores this fall. Only 1 lb heavier than the Numa and could turn out to be much better in every way.

Or the Yamaha P-105. But things that don't exist always sound better than things that do. ;-)

Top
#1935645 - 08/01/12 04:40 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Funny how we all have different preferences when it comes to action. The Numa Piano sounds great, but the action is the worst I've ever come across. I find the action in my Roland RD300NX (same as FP4-F) to be way better than the Numa.
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

Top
#1935664 - 08/01/12 06:59 AM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: thomsurf]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3214
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
Funny how we all have different preferences when it comes to action. The Numa Piano sounds great, but the action is the worst I've ever come across. I find the action in my Roland RD300NX (same as FP4-F) to be way better than the Numa.

Yeah, it is subjective. While the actions are different from each other, I find them about equally far from ideal. So as long as they meet a minimum playability threshold, I figure, if I'm not going to really like either of them, I might as well pick the model that weighs less! Especially since, in this case, I think it also sounds better. Though that's subjective too!

Top
#1935889 - 08/01/12 03:16 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Artur Gajewski]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: Artur Gajewski
I would love to get the FP-4F just because of my budget, but if the sound from the in-built speakers are as horrible as on F-120 then I might just save up some more and get the FP-7F instead. Speakers on top DO matter and FP-4F has them inside or below the keys, not sure which.


The onboard speakers on slab pianos are varying degrees of bad IMO and probably shouldn't be used as a basis to decide which one to buy.

Even if you don't like the sound from wearing headphones, your budget would be better spent on speakers if you have the space to spare.

Top
#1935895 - 08/01/12 03:28 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: thomsurf]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3047
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
Funny how we all have different preferences when it comes to action. The Numa Piano sounds great, but the action is the worst I've ever come across. I find the action in my Roland RD300NX (same as FP4-F) to be way better than the Numa.

Slightly OT: Yes, I struggle with the action on my Numa, particularly in respect of AP sounds. I find I spend too much time being conscious of the action during performances. I've tried the "N" and "H" velocity settings, as well as various incarnations of the user programmable curve, and never quite achieved a good balance. ("N" loses the lowest velocity layers; "H" requires the keys to be pummeled to achieve an adequate response; user curve often results in volume jumps.) My FP-4's Alpha action is better than the Numa's Fatar! The Nord Piano's action is an improvement, but still lags behind most modern actions by a significant margin, IMO. My vote still lies with PHAIII - but I'd like to compare it to RH2.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

Top
#1935925 - 08/01/12 04:30 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3214
Originally Posted By: voxpops
I've tried the "N" and "H" velocity settings, as well as various incarnations of the user programmable curve, and never quite achieved a good balance. ("N" loses the lowest velocity layers; "H" requires the keys to be pummeled to achieve an adequate response; user curve often results in volume jumps.)

I wonder if you could address this with the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

i.e. turn Local Off, and send MIDI Out to the Velocity Converter, and the output of that back into the Numa's MIDI In, using the VC to come up with the curve you want.

Originally Posted By: voxpops
My FP-4's Alpha action is better than the Numa's Fatar!

A number of people like the FP-4 action better than the FP-4F, too!

Top
#1935939 - 08/01/12 05:10 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3047
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I wonder if you could address this with the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter.

I expect that would work. What I've noticed, however, is that the MIDI Solutions products I use require the older 5-volt standard to work unaided. When I drive my Plugiator from the Numa Organ, I have to attach a MIDI Solutions Power Adapter in chain with the MIDI Solutions Event Processor (to filter out unwanted MIDI messages), and have an additional wall-wart to supply external power. To have to go through all that with the piano as well just to get a better curve is a step too far for me. I think I need to sit down for a couple of hours and attempt to get the built-in user curve set up a little better - but it's very hit-and-miss (more miss, actually).
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

Top
#1935945 - 08/01/12 05:19 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: anotherscott]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
[/quote]
Yeah, it is subjective. While the actions are different from each other, I find them about equally far from ideal. So as long as they meet a minimum playability threshold, I figure, if I'm not going to really like either of them, I might as well pick the model that weighs less! Especially since, in this case, I think it also sounds better. Though that's subjective too! [/quote]

I also think it sounds better on mediocre sound systems, but this weekend I played a gig with my Roland on a high end PA system (forgot the brand) and the piano sound truly was amazing! In this case I didn't miss the Numa AP sound at all...
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

Top
#1935950 - 08/01/12 05:23 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: thomsurf]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3047
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
In this case I didn't miss the Numa AP sound at all...

Just as well, since you just sent it back to the motherland, metaphorically speaking! wink
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

Top
#2009641 - 01/05/13 07:04 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
cotte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 21
Many reviewed the FP4F as sluggish and with a "slow key response". I agree on it. Having played the FP7F and the RD700NX, (which felt even better), I understand why the FP4F gets sometimes bashed, and people suggest to go directly to the FP7F or above. But those are on a higher price range.

I'm already stretching my budget to get to the FP4F but it seems not to be the best deal. How would you compare its action against the Kawai MP6 (I'm saying MP6 as I feel the MP10 is again in a higher price range.

What other apart from the MP6 would you guys suggest to try?. My budget has the FP4F price tag as limit.

Cheers.
_________________________
English is not my first language, please be patient!.

Top
#2009662 - 01/05/13 07:34 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: mwf]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9152
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
If you're considering the MP6, perhaps the ES7 is also within reach?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2010892 - 01/07/13 10:27 PM Re: Roland FP4F [Re: Kawai James]
cotte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 21
Yes Kawai James, I tested both and compared here

Cheers
_________________________
English is not my first language, please be patient!.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
A REALLY Indirect Blow Action
by Steve Cohen
09/18/14 09:01 AM
Bone chilling ending to pieces
by lacrymosa85
09/18/14 08:44 AM
help with finger numbers in this piece...
by PianoKimmy
09/18/14 05:35 AM
Most Difficult?
by SiFi
09/18/14 01:21 AM
What is most common size wire to break?
by Ed McMorrow, RPT
09/18/14 12:19 AM
Who's Online
117 registered (accordeur, ajames, Al LaPorte, 3times2, 42 invisible), 1221 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76237 Members
42 Forums
157600 Topics
2314935 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission