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#1675064 - 05/10/11 12:46 PM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: tdow]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: tdow
We simply created a book series when we saw the need arise in our studio and in the studio of many others (boys losing interest in piano). We did not see this same loss of interest with our girl students.

We couldn't sit back and watch many promising students leave the piano simply because motivation was lacking.


Am I going mad, or are some people actually suggesting that a book "Piano for boys" shouldn't be ALLOWED?

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#1675065 - 05/10/11 12:46 PM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: Piano*Dad]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11810
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad

How many times in the past have we heard that girls are terribly disadvantaged in "boy-oriented" classrooms in which aggressive and competitive boys choke off girls' growth.

I had not heard of this before. That is why it surprised me so much, and caught me off guard. If somebody out there decides that girls are cooperative and boys are competitive, and then creates programs based on those assumptions, that does not make their natures so. We are who we are. I had no idea that programs anywhere were designed on such premises. In general stereotypes leave me very uncomfortable. It is easy to be caught out by them.

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#1675069 - 05/10/11 01:00 PM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: MegumiNoda]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10410
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Quote:
On a related note, how do I renew my son's interest in horse riding? He says it's 'for girls'. Seems a shame, when he's such a competent rider. I mean, Indiana Jones rides a horse, right? It's not that he doesn't like being around girls -- he just doesn't like to do things that he thinks of as 'girly'.


Take him to Montana. He'll meet lots of guys who ride horses .... for a living.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1675099 - 05/10/11 01:53 PM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: Piano*Dad]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Quote:
On a related note, how do I renew my son's interest in horse riding? He says it's 'for girls'. Seems a shame, when he's such a competent rider. I mean, Indiana Jones rides a horse, right? It's not that he doesn't like being around girls -- he just doesn't like to do things that he thinks of as 'girly'.


Take him to Montana. He'll meet lots of guys who ride horses .... for a living.


Bit like taking your daughter to Vegas to learn about relationships :-)

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#1675101 - 05/10/11 01:57 PM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: MegumiNoda]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Or to the bar and lounge of the Holiday Inn in a suburb of Gary, Indiana an hour after the end of happy hour to learn about the importance and relevance of piano lessons.

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#1675117 - 05/10/11 02:27 PM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: MegumiNoda]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: London UK
That would cover Vegas as well?

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#1694628 - 06/12/11 10:00 PM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: MegumiNoda]
timtopham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 110
Loc: Brunswick, VIC
Hey all, I recently wrote a post about piano music ideas for boys on my blog:

http://timtopham.com/2011/06/07/teaching-boys-repertoire-ideas/

I found it really hard when I was just beginning teaching to know about good repertoire, so I hope this may help others out there...
_________________________
Tim Topham
www.timtopham.com
Piano teacher, accompanist, presenter
Melbourne Australia

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#1694975 - 06/13/11 01:51 PM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: MegumiNoda]
tnew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 158
Loc: Austria
I would at least give a glance at a piano book for boys, since I have a son. Whether I buy or not would depend on if it adequately addressed the typical learning style differences or not.

Boys and girls are usually wired differently. Some girls really are meant to be cooperative and submissive and that is fine. There are a few boys like that too, but probably not nearly as many. I always believed girls often don't do well in mathematics and science because they process information differently than most boys. Not all of them of course.

Hey, I was a girl in engineering. I admit I am not like most other women that I know. The few (and there are really very few) that I work with are quite similar to me. I don't know why my lot was such, but there it is. How fortunate that I live in a society where I at least get a chance to do what I am capable of regardless of my gender. But I must say that I never went into engineering because of rebellion towards gender roles. I was already moving in that direction from the time I was knee high and building tiny cities out of garage scrap for my toys to live in.

I don't see any point trying to rip girls or boys out of gender roles...if they fit them. I respect house wives and working dads. Men and women are generally not the same and we shouldn't be trying to convince them they are. Neither should we be inflexible for those that don't quite fit the norm.

Also, the sciences in college take a whole different mode of thinking than liberal arts (different sector of the brain). I am not surprised most women tend towards liberal arts due to their learning and thinking style. I feel I can say that with confidence because I am a closet liberal arts person myself. It takes a noticeable shift of gears in the brain to swap between engineering and the arts.

I'm open for possibilities in individual tailored learning, so long as it fits the child.

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#1695128 - 06/13/11 07:49 PM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: MegumiNoda]
Gary D. Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
The elephant in the room for me is this:

Advanced music does not have pictures. Difficult and rewarding music sells itself mostly through SOUND.

My students have ideas about what they want to play, and those ideas change as they get better. They don't care about pictures and are never fooled into thinking that a so-so piece of music is magically turned into something "cool" because it has a "cool" picture.

So I must be in a different universe. smile
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1708821 - 07/07/11 01:01 AM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: Gary D.]
Theme&Variations Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/10
Posts: 135
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
My students have ideas about what they want to play, and those ideas change as they get better. They don't care about pictures and are never fooled into thinking that a so-so piece of music is magically turned into something "cool" because it has a "cool" picture.


Thank-you for this very sensible reminder. I will have to remember this the next time I get into a debate/discussion/argument about the need for special music/books for boys.
_________________________
Private piano teacher since 2003
Member:
ASME (Australian Society for Music Education),
ANZCA (Australian and New Zealand Cultural Arts),
KMEIA (Kodály Music Education Institute of Australia).

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#1708870 - 07/07/11 03:24 AM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: MegumiNoda]
trillingadventurer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 304
Loc: San Diego
Another elephant in the room:

We are teachers who teach boys and girls and there is quite alot of attention in the world of education on learning styles differing between girls and boys.

This is not offensive. This is being sensitive to reality. Just type in "How Boys and Girls learn differently" in google....
_________________________
M. Katchur

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#1708872 - 07/07/11 03:37 AM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: trillingadventurer]
Gary D. Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: trillingadventurer
Another elephant in the room:

We are teachers who teach boys and girls and there is quite alot of attention in the world of education on learning styles differing between girls and boys.

This is not offensive. This is being sensitive to reality. Just type in "How Boys and Girls learn differently" in google....


And beyond that:

There are girls who learn in ways stereotypically associated with boys, and vice versa.

I have one young boy who listens to every word I say. He never argues, he is rather passive, very careful. Super student. I love teaching him. But terribly sensitive. I am working to boost his confidence, get him to make his needs known, teach him that it is OK to be a bit boisterous now and then.

Now, how would you think Martha Argerich learned? I would wager that she learned much more the way that we THINK or THOUGHT that girls learn.

I think music tends to make lies out of stereotypes. smile
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1708887 - 07/07/11 04:51 AM Re: Gender specific piano pedagogy [Re: Gary D.]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: London UK
There are gender characteristics. There are individual characteristics. A sensible teacher is informed about both.

Where mass education is required, with a limited budget, sometimes we have to tend toward "the greatest good of the greatest number". Not every pupil in a public school (using the term in the American sense) can have an individually-crafted curriculum.

But every individual piano pupil can, quite easily. As teachers, we don't require rules and guidelines, just observation and common sense.

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