I GOT ACCEPTED INTO THE NEXT ROUND!!!

But one problem , thought someone may be able to help me. I am studying Feux Follets ... treacherously demanding piece for the right hand fingers 3, 4 , 5 - I don't need any advice on technique or how to practice etc - I am relaxed as a jellyfish , but I have been studying 5 hours a day on that piece for the past 9 days ... It's coming along quite nicely.

BUT , I have developed a very annoying sensation in my arm ... I feel like it's the tendon that runs from the 4th finger down into the elbow area ... on the elbow , the side opposite of the bone , I feel a bit of tension as well.

The tendon feels like it's a deeper issue , beyond just a basic soreness.

My plan is to cut back my daily studying of Feux Follets to 2.5 hours and study bach and beethoven instead. Also , much slower practice on Feux Follets with my right hand ... But is there any cream , oils , herbs , remedies or anything to help me with the tension / tightness of my forearm tendon area? Any method anyone uses to nurture themselves back to normal? It's not getting worse as of yet because I cut the work load down , but I don't think it's going away for a while unless I do something about it ... and stopping practicing is NOT an option.

Thanks a lot =)

So NOW can you tell us more about this competition?

Not quite sure what you want to know? But here is the link for their page. It's a relatively new competition ... I have no idea if they accepted everyone or not because I have no idea how many entered and how many got accepted.

http://www.musicalartsinternational.org/...-7.39190450.pdf

Dustin, first of all, congratulations on getting to the next round.

What you say about the feeling in your arm worries me. Enough to tell you plainly: You should not be working on Feux Follets. Listening to your earlier recording, I had the overwhelming impression that you need a good teacher right now. Your tone is mostly fine, but you play with a rhythmic hesitancy that gets in the way of almost everything you're trying to do. I appreciate your love for the music, and your enthusiasm: I hope they only continue to grow. But it could be argued that right now, the Beethoven op31/3 is a little beyond your level, let alone a Liszt etude.

Furthermore, the fact that you're spending five hours a day on this piece, and that the other day you said you spent five hours on the left hand alone of a Bach fugue, suggest that you need some good advice in structuring your practice time.

I'm coming off strongly, on purpose. Previously, I felt no real need to make my opinions about your playing and your situation known-- why shouldn't you play what you want? But if you're starting to hurt yourself, that's totally different. I think you're heading in the wrong direction.

So please understand that it's only out of concern that I say: Dustin, you're playing beyond your level right now and you really need supervision; please, please please study with a teacher.

-Jason

Thanks for the advice. The Beethoven piece is most definitely not beyond my 'level'. I barely practiced it , let alone with a metronome.

I got in touch with my previous teacher today , but he tours during the summer. I can get a little time in with him to study feux follets though before he goes away.

Stopping feux follet is not an option btw. =)

I must learn it for the competition. I am going slower with it though and like I said , the pain isn't getting worse. But I take hot baths every day and massage my arms with a rag. It fixes most soreness and pains ... but this tendon thing is different it seems

This is what I have I think!!!

http://www.itendonitis.com/forearm-tendonitis.html

But I don't think it's 'that' serious yet , I caught it before it got too bad and just trying to figure out ways to let it heal while not preventing myself from practicing .. =)

Consider this. You say it is imperative that you keep practicing every day. You also say you need to know how to relieve the somewhat serious pain in your arm. I'm going to make an extreme example here, but bear with me. The thing you have to think about is what will affect you in the long run. You could 1) Drastically reduce your practice time, or not practice at all, and not do as well as you might in the competition, or 2) You could play through the pain and possibly injure yourself to the point of no return where you will never be able to play without pain again. The choice is yours.

P.S. You can reduce your physical practice time without reducing your musical practice time (i.e. silent score study, listening to recordings, analysis of the music, etc.).

It is an option.



You're welcome.

Yes , I am debating in my head if I should do silent score study. Perhaps choreograph movements in my head , and analyze the interpretation away from the piano.

I am going to take your advice about reducing my practice time. Perhaps only do an hour of right hand Feux Follet a day spread across 30 minute sections in the morning and at night - I can still master the left hand in the mean time ... I'm researching anti inflammatory creams and icing / elevation stuff.

I also wouldn't say it's painful 'yet'. It's uncomfortable and tense ... and I know if it could go to painful quickly if I kept doing what I was doing for such an extended period of time.

I agree with 31425.

Even so, it could be fine not to follow it, depending on what you're interested in doing, and what you think you're doing. But I promise you there's a lot to what he's saying.

I agree with you that the Beethoven isn't really "beyond your level" -- obviously you can play it -- but there's still the question of how good an idea it is for you to work on such a piece, especially without a teacher, and I'd guess that's mostly what Jason meant. From the standpoints of both advancing your craft and presenting yourself as well as possible at the moment, I think ideally simpler repertoire would serve you better. I don't think the Beethoven sonata is outrageously wrong, but I think if you continue working mainly on repertoire that is so advanced before some close work on basics with simpler repertoire, you may be sort of cementing your deficiencies rather than remedying them. As for Feux Follets, I don't hesitate to echo completely what Jason said, from every imaginable standpoint -- musical, pianistic, and health of your hands. It seems there's no chance you'll heed this, but nevertheless I'll say, it's flat-out a bad idea for you to be working on it, and extremely ill-advised to be thinking of playing it in the competition. Even if you think you "have to," and there's no way out of it, you should find one.
There is almost always the opportunity to change your planned repertoire, even if this is not formally indicated.

And BTW it might help for you to realize that even most very advanced pianists would not think of performing such a piece without having had it well under their belt for quite some time, which wouldn't be the case for you even in the best scenario. I can't help pretty much assuming that you just don't appreciate what the piece involves and requires.

It's good that you have contacted the teacher and are planning to have some lessons. And of course: Congratulations on your success in the competition. Regardless of what we might think of your choice of pieces, it's a significant achievement and a testament to your ability and your work.

As some of us tried to tell you before, Dusty, you're in over your head and that's why you're now in pain. I don't care if you've practised 14 hours a day between that last recording and now, because the fact is that you can't create something that isn't there to begin with through sheer will and determination. It takes time and lots of it. Your technique isn't up to par for the works you posted previously, so it's certainly not going to be up to par for one of the Liszt etudes. "I began playing only three days ago, but I need tips on Prok 2." I'm not dumping on you Dustin (though someone needs to give you a good dose of reality, which I've tried to do), but I am telling you from experience (I've probably been teaching longer than you've been alive) that what you're doing with the extended hours of practise with no guidance but that which you THINK is correct and overextended yourself by playing repertoire such as the Liszt without the technique to do so will only harm you in the long run. If you're not careful you may well damage things permanently. The best advice I can give you is to stop practising completely if you're experiencing this kind of pain. Don't tell me that it's not an option, because I'll tell you that you're an idiot to believe so. You're young and rather naive and stupidly stubborn, so I rather doubt any advice from anyone will be taken to heart, but, if you don't want or like what we have to say, then why bother asking?

Quitting the Liszt is "not an option"? Oh come on. Do you seriously think you can play that right now, especially with pain? Pain is no. 1 sign that you are doing something wrong - no shame in that, we've all done it, it happens. You need to drop the piece and (I'll say it again) look for a good teacher. I'm sure you can afford it twice a month at least, with all the teaching you're doing.

+1

That is not possible.

That's a bit harsh, stores.

Let me put it this way to you, Dustin. I was once like you, and I thought if I practiced hard, that would be enough. In reality it takes top level instruction, dedication, and time. What you're trying to do is cram everything into a few days because you want to be instantly gratified by your efforts -- not how it works.

My professor told me once:

[some humor may be lost in translation from Russian]
"What are you doing? You are planting potatoes. Don't dig out the potato the next day and try to eat it!"

Nothing lost in the translation at all!

Although it does help to be imagining an eastern European accent....

Excellent....+1

That is fantastic.

I guess some people will have to learn from experience. Nothing that Stores or Pogo or whoever else says here will make a difference. Good luck Dustin, that's all I can say!

How is this a relatively new competition if this year is the 26th annual, with the older division added in 2000? 11 years is a long time!

It may be harsh, but it's the honest truth and there is nothing about reality that is going to hurt Dustin, at this point in time. I've seen hundreds of kids with the same desire, but also the same attitude that ends up killing that desire in the long run, because they feel they know enough already and it gets them into trouble every single time. The proof lies in the pain Dustin is already experiencing.

What you never seem to understand is that you can tell someone the same thing without being nasty about it. And it's an honest opinion.

Honestly, I find it funny that you of all people say this. Again, this is just an honest opinion. So lets not derail this thread by pointing fingers at each other (honest opinions can take on distributions with enormous variance). In the end, what stores (and others) said here better be taken seriously by the OP. If not, he will just have to learn painful lessons from experience. Some say that is a better way to learn. If it involves injuries though, that might not be true.

You don't find it "funny"; you're just being sarcastic. And if you're trying to imply that my posts have the same nasty quality of many of the ones by stores, you're dead wrong.

Fazzy told the OP the same thing without the inappropriate tone I objected to.

Dustin, I urge caution if you think you're heading towards tendonitis. Unfortunately, tendons take a long time to heal (blood supply isn't great). I've had tendonitis in both my elbow (thanks to tennis, not piano) and Achilles (running).
There are exercises you can do to help prevent and to heal and you can ice down the area, too. Sometimes, meds. Might not hurt to see your local MD before it gets worse (although I suspect the first thing an MD would tell you is cut back on whatever is irritating it).

I had to stop tennis for a solid 3 months the first time around and my dang Achilles tendon took 9 LOOOOONG months to get back to normal. Then again, I'm no spring chicken.

Good luck!

Dustin

Read Leon Fleisher's autobiography -- he details how "odd feelings" in his right hand after intense practice turned into the nightmare of dystonia that disrupted his career for 30+ years. Your body is giving you a warning . Heed it!!!

I don't recall such unanimity on too much here before -- or anywhere for that matter.

The sarcasm if you perceived any, is an honest opinion too. That's the funny thing about honest opinions. Not everybody agrees with them. All I'm saying is diverting this discussion to inappropriateness of tone (especially by you) is hypocritical. People voice opinions here all the time and perception of inappropriateness varies widely. I for instance view stores' tone as less malevolent than the tone you adopt in some of the threads that you've started in the past. So if you want to continue discussing this, this thread will turn into people pointing fingers at each other. Why do you do this with every other thread (esp with stores, as I've noted quite a few times)? I do think that your tone in many threads has been nasty. Like I said, that's what's funny about honest opinions. I fully expect you to think that I'm dead wrong! That's just your opinion. I guarantee you, I can find at least one other person who will agree with me. So then two people would be dead wrong, wouldn't they? I will then find one more amongst the 55000 members of PW. We can continue the game until you call 27,000 people dead wrong (probabilitywise, I expect about half the people to agree with you and the other half to agree with me).

Many different tones have been used in this very thread to explain the same thing to the OP. None has worked. So why even bother discussing appropriateness of tone?

What's interesting is that my post wasn't directed to YOU, yet you're the one objecting. I don't particularly care that you object, but I think my point is clear.

Why is everyone using the word 'pain' when I explicitly stated it isn't painful? It's called preventive maintenance. I have been studying piano enough to realize symptoms and to catch them early and not over do it.

Anyway , I didn't mean to single you out but stores and others commented on the 'pain' factor.

It isn't painful!!! Just awkwardly tense!

I know what I'm getting myself into with Feux Follets. It's coming along verrrrry nicely. I'll post a rough recording in 2 weeks

I'm icing my arm and using some thing called Tiger Balm. And stretching it a lot. It feels better already =)