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#167759 - 10/14/06 06:01 PM "Stay away from Grotrian"??
PIANOLatte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Southern California
I just got off the phone with a very personable and seemingly knowlegeable owner of a Blüthner store. One of the comments to me was "Stay away from Grotrian, it's a second rate piano."

I'm looking at a Grotrian 223 and a Steinway C. I am very impressed with the Grotrian. Is there any reason in fact for this comment, or is it just sales puffery?

Many thanks.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway C;
C. Bechstein 7'4"

"Love is a far better master than duty." --Albert Einstein

♫Rick Stier
PIANOLatte®
www.pianolatte.com

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#167760 - 10/14/06 06:10 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
It's total nonsense.

The top German makers have always been Steinway,Bluethner, Grotrian and Bechstein.

200 years of international fame and mutual respect obviously came now to a sudden halt somewhere in America.............

Norbert \:o
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#167761 - 10/14/06 06:19 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
Perhaps she doesn't sell them.

Personally, I love Grotrians.

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#167762 - 10/14/06 06:45 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
PIANOLatte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Southern California
Thank you Norbert. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Kenny, I'm with you. I love them too.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway C;
C. Bechstein 7'4"

"Love is a far better master than duty." --Albert Einstein

♫Rick Stier
PIANOLatte®
www.pianolatte.com

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#167763 - 10/14/06 06:46 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
PIANOLatte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Southern California
Thank you Norbert. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Kenny, I'm with you. I love them too.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway C;
C. Bechstein 7'4"

"Love is a far better master than duty." --Albert Einstein

♫Rick Stier
PIANOLatte®
www.pianolatte.com

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#167764 - 10/14/06 06:47 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
TammyF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 21
Loc: Castlegar, Canada
The Grotrian I played in Norbert's store was absolutely beautiful. I would buy it over a Steinway any day (at least the ones that I've played). It definitely is a Tier 1 piano and is right up there with the other Tier 1 pianos. If you haven't played one yet, I would find one and give it a try.
Tammy
I bought an Estonia 168, but if I had more money, I would have got the Grotrian no problem. I love my Estonia, but that Grotrian was pretty nice!

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#167765 - 10/14/06 06:51 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
PIANOLatte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Southern California
TammyF,
I agree. In fact I prefer the Grotrian 223 to many other pianos I've played.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway C;
C. Bechstein 7'4"

"Love is a far better master than duty." --Albert Einstein

♫Rick Stier
PIANOLatte®
www.pianolatte.com

Top
#167766 - 10/14/06 06:56 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
I played Fazioli, Steinway, Grotrian and Yamaha today in Jecklins of Zurich. Your dealer is talking nonsense about Grotrians. Distinctive tone, excellent pianos undeniably.

Dealers who do this bring disrepect onto themselves. Reputable dealers do not spout such nonsense.

A

PS : the 9ft Fazioli yet again impressed me with its roaring bass...
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#167767 - 10/14/06 07:00 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
I love Grotrians.

If I bought a secnd piano, it would be either a Steinway or a Grotrian.
_________________________
If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?

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#167768 - 10/14/06 07:03 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
PIANOLatte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Southern California
AJB,
I concur. I would have been far more impressed if the dealer would have made a statement such as: "Of course, Grotrians are one of the finest pianos in the world. So are my Blüthners. Let me show you why our clients prefer Blüthner."

PS: Did you play Hamburg or NY Steinway? How did it compare to the Grotrian and Fazioli?
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway C;
C. Bechstein 7'4"

"Love is a far better master than duty." --Albert Einstein

♫Rick Stier
PIANOLatte®
www.pianolatte.com

Top
#167769 - 10/14/06 07:17 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Just have anybody here travel through the various factories and showrooms in Germany and Europe, and all you see is quiet, understated *class*.

Real - and highly diversified - *class*.

Been to the big showrooms in London, Berlin, Paris, Rome or Moscow?

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#167770 - 10/14/06 07:24 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
Alex Hernandez Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 1966
RStier,

I'm sorry you had a regrettable experience with this Blüthner store owner. I personally find Grotians to be lovely pianos with a beautiful tone.
_________________________


Blüthner USA, LLC

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#167771 - 10/14/06 07:28 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
PIANOLatte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Southern California
Norbert, I appreciate that perspective.

I've had two dealers speak against Grotrian today (the other sells Bechstein). Quite frankly, I would welcome some additional *class* and professionalism. Negative comments about a highly respected competing brand say far more about the dealer than the competition they are deriding. How about a little european elegance to compliment the instruments they represent!
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway C;
C. Bechstein 7'4"

"Love is a far better master than duty." --Albert Einstein

♫Rick Stier
PIANOLatte®
www.pianolatte.com

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#167772 - 10/14/06 07:34 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
ryantim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 107
Loc: Lucerne, Switzerland
Adrian said it best:
"Dealers who do this bring disrepect onto themselves. Reputable dealers do not spout such nonsense."


"Stay away from that dealer" is the watchword from my point of view, rather than stay away from Grotrian. Grotrians are fine pianos. Never trust a guy who doesn't respect the competition.

Tim
_________________________
"Ich lebe mein Leben in wachsenden Ringen, die sich über Dinge ziehen, ich werde den letzten vielleicht nicht vollbringen, aber versuchen werde ich ihn." Rainer Maria Rilke
---------------
Yamaha C2 Silent / MIDI
Yamaha P120
Fender American Deluxe FMT Jazz Bass

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#167773 - 10/14/06 07:43 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
PIANOLatte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Southern California
Alex,
Very nice website!
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway C;
C. Bechstein 7'4"

"Love is a far better master than duty." --Albert Einstein

♫Rick Stier
PIANOLatte®
www.pianolatte.com

Top
#167774 - 10/14/06 09:16 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4288
Loc: Cincinnati
I think you want to stay away from dealers who speak this way about ANY piano not in their they do not offer. And maybe even if they do offer it.
_________________________
Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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#167775 - 10/14/06 09:22 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Here's another take on this:

The store owner IMHO owes you a wonderful deal now on one of his own Bluethner pianos - everybody knows they are fantastic instruments!

Tell him, Norbert HIGHLY recommends them,but is threatening to send a Grotrian your way...[of course I'm *not*.. ;\) ]

Now let's have another look at what that dealer happens to have on his own floor right now....

Norbert \:D
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#167776 - 10/14/06 10:48 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I own a Grotrian 192. It's a wonderful beast. One of the only pianos that could have tempted me away was a silky Bluthner I played in NY.

When any dealer badmouths the competition the red flags start to fly up. I can think of no clearer signal of dealer insecurity than this.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#167777 - 10/14/06 10:56 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6150
Who are these owners of Blüsthner and Bechstein stores?
There can't be that many of them in Southern California, right?
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#167778 - 10/15/06 01:51 AM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
pianistical Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 1377
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I had the pleasure to talk to Bengt Forsberg, one of Swedens leading pianists and the accompanist of Ann-Sophie von Otter. He has had the opportunity to play many of the old tier 1 pianos that still are used for recitals at institutions, churches and small recital halls, and he spoke in glowing and lyrical terms about Grotrian-Steinwegs. They were his favorite pianos.

Norbert is right. The top four German brands, in order of recognition in Europe, is Steinway, Bechstein, Blüthner and Grotrian. But really, I think people more often speak about the top 3 brands.

I have never understood why Steingraeber is a realitvely obscure brand in Europe. They are one of my personal favorites and IMO at the same level as the above mentioned brands.

I have only played one old Grotrian-steinweg which was very nice. That particular one had a personal, dark, brooding and woody tone with a great sustain. I could imagine that Brahms would sound great on them.
_________________________
“There are only two important things which I took with me on my way to America, It´s been my wife Natalja and my precious Blüthner.” – Sergei Rachmaninov

1913 Blüthner model 6
1929 Blüthner model 9.
1955 Steingraeber upright.

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#167779 - 10/15/06 02:45 AM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
RStier

To answer your question: the Steinways were Hamburgs. They had three B's and I pkayed them all. Very consistent. I played these in comparison with Fazioli 228 (slighty unfair). They had three of those as well. I also played the smaller and larger Faziolis but not the smaller Steinways. There was no D.

I also tried again the Yamaha S6. For me, the Grotrian 192 beats this instrument in volume, tone and playability, Amazing grand for its size.


They also have a Steingraeber 205, but the have plonked it in the entrance near their ticjet sales area, so it is not easy to play it without causing disturbance. I am very familiar with them. I also happen to believe that Steingreaber is coming up in the world in Europe. You see more of them around and dealers are saying very positive things about them.

I am seeking out a concert Grotrian (which I think is called the Royale) because I "need" to play one now. If it builds on the excellent 192, then we shall see...

(Oddly enough, in my book the bigger pianos can go either way. I prefer Steinway D to B, but I prefer the Steingreaber 205 to its bigger brother, except in Phoenix form).

As a matter of interest, this dealer seems to be doing well with Fazioli. For example I am aware of a 9ft grand in a local conservatory - "gasp" they have not bought a Steinway D "gasp again". (The Swiss are conservative usually and the professionals are quite Steinway loyal). And they are very pleased with it. I have played two 228's in private houses as well.
They are cheaper here than in the UK.

Anyway RStier, give that grotrian a chance. My first experience with them was not that positive. But then Jecklins had this really lovely 192 that demonstrated what a well prepped one can do. So I have revised my opinion and am keen to try a big one again. (I don't think I tried a Royale last time).

A
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#167780 - 10/15/06 08:00 AM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
FWIW when I was piano shopping in NYC, the only dealer who bad-mouthed another brand was the local Grotrian dealer. He had bad things to say about Bosendorfer, Fazzioli, August Forster, and probably others that I don't remember.

It wouldn't have stopped me from buying from him, but I found it to be a bit of a turnoff.
_________________________
If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?

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#167781 - 10/15/06 09:08 AM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
Fine

Just because some dealers behave disreputably though, should have no bearing on our assessment of the pianos of particular manufacturers, as long as we can place our business through some other dealer.

Kind regards

Adrian
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#167782 - 10/15/06 10:27 AM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
jollyroger Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 848
Loc: Houston, TX
Grotrians are one of the nicest pianos I've ever played. Don't buy this sales claptrap for a second.
Regards,
Roger
_________________________
Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence.
Estonia 190 - Serial # 6561

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#167783 - 10/15/06 11:33 AM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Jon,

I wonder who that was? \:D

David
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#167784 - 10/15/06 01:40 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
PIANOLatte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Southern California
re: Who are these owners of Blüsthner and Bechstein stores?
There can't be that many of them in Southern California, right?

--------------------
Axtremus, Blüthner store is Kasimoff in Los Angeles. Bechstein in southern California is Piano Exchange in San Diego.

Norbert, I love your approach!

AJB, thanks for the update on your comparisons. It will be intersting to see what you think of the Grotrian Royale.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway C;
C. Bechstein 7'4"

"Love is a far better master than duty." --Albert Einstein

♫Rick Stier
PIANOLatte®
www.pianolatte.com

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#167785 - 10/15/06 07:43 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RStier:
[QB] ..."Stay away from Grotrian, it's a second rate piano..."

Grotrian, a SECOND RATE PIANO?????????????????????

Too bad there's no sound with PW posts...

Anyone reading this would hear a lot of hysterical laughter - I am sitting here HOWLING. \:D

I played Grotrians at three piano dealers. Grotrians, in my opinion, are among The Best Of The Best. So of that dealer's comment, all I can say is...

THAT IS TOOOOOO FUNNY. Absolutely HILARIOUS.

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#167786 - 10/15/06 09:08 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
Sir Lurksalot Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1237
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. Sounds like a second-rate dealer to me.

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#167787 - 10/15/06 10:14 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
GrotrianSchimmelYamaha Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 83
Loc: Massachusetts
Man I want this guy's phone number so I can talk to him.
_________________________
Grotrian 6'3
Schimmel 51"
Yamaha U3

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#167788 - 10/15/06 10:27 PM Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"??
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
I bet many dealers hate this forum.

Whatever they say can be repeated to the whole world.

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