Brief background on my question:

I'm currently organizing the publication of some chamber music where the composer left his own extensive fingering for the soloist (violin), sometimes even 2 or 3 different fingerings for a single passage. He was a very meticulous composer and violinist, as well as a demanding teacher, and it's possible that he left these fingerings for the benefit of students. These are highly virtuosic works in which fingering is very important.


Question 1:

Given the frequent desirability of coming up with our own fingerings, would you prefer for an edition to include or leave out the composers' own fingerings, when such are available? If they were included, would you commit to using them, or would you cross them out and write your own?


Question 2:

If you do like to see composers' fingerings, would you find it a clutter/undesirable if the composer left 2 or 3 (or more) different fingering options and all were included in the edition? Or would you find it a big plus?

1: Composers usually tend to know what they're doing, so yes. For less experienced pianists it's probably helpful to have guidance already in the book. And even more experienced pianists might not have come up with a certain way of fingering that the composer deemed better.

2: Too cluttered, I'd stick with one

I generally write in the scores/mark out things, add that to the music itself, dynamic markings, etc. and multiple fingerings is just too much.
And you know, if you don't like the fingering already in there. . . I just scratch it out and right in my own.

With fingering, I do my own thing and I recommend the same for everyone, so, though it's interesting to see the fingering left by a composer I would probably scratch it out unless it worked for me. There are a few notorious examples from Beethoven of fingerings that are insane and next to impossible.

I also had the same question. It really depends on the work in question. I mean some works can work in so many different ways that it's difficult to offer a specific ideas on the fingering. Other works seem to work in a single way, so this is easier.

Still after checking with a few people here, I do think that generally they prefer fingering. The vague reply was "why do it myself when the book has it already"?

I agree with a Mannes teacher who said that if the composer was a great pianist (Liszt, Chopin, Prokofiev, Beethoven, etc.) they usually knew what they were doing when it comes to fingerings(so those fingerings should at least be strongly considered). I would think the same thing applies for a great violinist's fingering.

Multiple fingerings are something I personally find useful, but this is just my preference. I think if you check vitually all of Godowsky's works you will see numerous examples of multiple fingerings and get an idea of how crowded or not things look, at least in a piano score. I have no idea how crowded things look for violin scores. I have never seen more than two ingerings given so I don't know how good or bad that would look.

Since the composer was a very good violinist and went to the trouble of giving multiple fingerings, I think you should give strong thought to include them especially if these pieces are not generally available. I'm sure he did it because he felt it would be helpful...I can't imagine any other reason.

I think the composer's fingerings could in some sense be considerd part of the score.

1. I would want the composer’s fingerings included, though my commitment to using them would depend on their comfort for me. I would definitely try them before making other choices.

2. If the composer suggested multiple choices, I would definitely like to see them included (even at the cost of some clutter).

I consider thoughtful, comfortable and expedient fingering extremely important. But I don’t play any instrument but piano, and know nothing at all about violin music! Do pianists’ preferences in this matter extrapolate in a meaningful way to other instruments? (My complete ignorance here made me wonder if it might be an apples-and-oranges comparison.)

Pianoloverus, thanks for mentioning Godowsky. I had never seen any of his scores but just had a look on IMSLP. He often includes 2 or 3 (and sometimes 4) fingering options. Here's a passage from his 2nd version of Chopin's Op. 10 No. 1 for the left hand only -

If I had to choose one pianist whose fingerings one could learn the most from it would be Godowsky. Besides his original works and transcriptions he also edited many other composer's works with, at least for me, terrific fingering suggestions.

They are at the bottom of this page:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Godowsky,_Leopold

and(may be the same as above listing) #1866-1919 on this page:
http://www.classicscore.hut2.ru/G.html

I think that if a composer who also played the instrument that they are composing for took the time to develop fingerings, they are very valuable and should most definitely be included. Also, the composer might want the performer to produce a specific articulation, phrase length, or tone which the performer might not otherwise think of but which the composer's fingering makes possible.

There certainly are differences. On the violin, fingering choices can affect tone quality. For example, the fingering will give you information about what string you are to play on. The composer's fingering indicates whether he wants the different sound of playing on a lower string in a higher position, or a higher string in a lower position.

As you're talking about the composer's fingering my opinion is that you should include it. Better that than to have some violinist say "I wonder what the composer would have wanted here?" (when you could have told him!) And it's fairly clear that the composer cared enough to indicate it.

If you felt it was cluttering the score it could be added in the notes or introduction.

Of course you should consider the composer's fingerings. Not because they might fit your hand better, but because more often than not they've included them for musical reasons (such as phrasing) that you might miss if you do other fingerings.

Include them. And bowings, too if indicated. If your intent is an urtext edition (which is mostly what people expect these days), then your job as editor is to communicate to the performer what the composer wrote/intended.



I can see three options:

1) Put it all in the part
2) Put the alternate fingerings in critical notes that accompany the edition
3) Put the alternate fingerings in a footnote at the bottom of the page or in an ossia (marked "facile" for example...)

Those are in order of most to least number of alternate fingerings.

Regardless of what you choose, I strongly recommend you consult a violinist who is knowledgeable about performance practices of the composer's time and today. There are things done back then (portamento, for example), that are considered out of fashion today. This may have some bearing on your choice.

Also, mention that the fingerings are the composer's own. Otherwise people might assume it's just some crazy editor who doesn't know what they're doing.

It is certainly interesting to take the composer's fingerings into consideration.
Chopin for example liked natural movements of the hands and there are fingerings in his works marked as 5-5, which is otherwise a bit unusual I think, but I understand his point and like the idea.