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#1678838 - 05/16/11 04:15 PM Rubinstein's genius
cardguy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 977
When I picked up piano again a couple of years ago after 4 decades away, I fell in love with Chopin and decided to devote most of my practice to him. At the time there wasn't much I could play of his...not that there is now particularly, although there is more...but I didn't care. I wanted to play beautiful music and to my ear nothing was more beautiful than Chopin.

I still feel that way, though some things have changed. I used to think Horowitz was so far beyond Rubinstein that I couldn't see why the latter was so esteemed. How deaf I was! I've grown to love his restraint and discipline which in my opinion must be the mark of a supremely confident artist. He simply did not feel the need to show off, at least in the performances I've heard...

Just thought I'd throw this out there in hopes of getting a discussion going. What did Rubinstein say about his style of playing?

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#1678841 - 05/16/11 04:26 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1587
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Rubinstein's great strength was proving that Classicism and Romanticism were not opposing virtues. More to come soon.
_________________________
Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

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#1678842 - 05/16/11 04:26 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
DM603 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 4
Loc: NY, USA
I have recently been introduced to Chopin Mazurka Op 24 No 2. Fantastic. Douglas
_________________________
www.artist-pianos.com

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#1678845 - 05/16/11 04:29 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: Hank Drake]
jeffreyjones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 1756
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: Hank Drake
Rubinstein's great strength was proving that Classicism and Romanticism were not opposing virtues. More to come soon.


Completely agreed.. also, that speed and sensitivity are not mutually exclusive.
_________________________
Current projects:

Bach: English Suite No. 3 in G minor
Chopin: Barcarolle, Op. 60

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#1678848 - 05/16/11 04:31 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
Batuhan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 810
Loc: Istanbul
Yeah horowitz like to show off very much rubinstein always keep himself behind the music.
_________________________
Sorry for my English, I know it sucks, but I'm trying to improve.

Published:
Waltz Op. 36 No. 1 in G-flat major,
2 Preludes, Op. 12 in D-flat major.

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#1678936 - 05/16/11 07:03 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
fledgehog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 228
Loc: West Hartford, CT
Rubinstein was a great interpreter in most of the material he played, but his chopin nocturnes are simply out of this world. and to me, that is a great indication of his particular style of pianism and musicality. the nocturnes are comprised of all the things he mastered -- rubato and phrasing, delicacy, emotion and beauty. for some more exciting pieces like the Chopin Scherzi and Ballades, I'll prefer Rubinstein's playing if I want to hear their aspects of beauty, but I'll go with someone different if i want an electric, dramatic thrill.
I've downloaded the 80-volume "complete recordings" box set, which I am slowly making my way through, and I own the Chopin box, which I've heard all of save for some of the more obscure mazurkas. I'm not a huge fan of Rubinstein's forays (no pun intended) on impressionist and French music, but aside from that i have very few qualms about his playing, from any period of his ridiculously long career.

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#1679236 - 05/17/11 08:58 AM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
lilylady Online   confused
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4681
Loc: boston north
Jeffrey Biegel recently shared this on Facebook. Interesting to hear him speak as well as play. So elegant.




1. prelude op. 28 no. 8

2. mazurka op. 30 no. 4

3. scherzo op.39 no. 3

4. nocturne op. 15 no. 2

5. polonaise op. 53 no. 6
_________________________
Let the people who think that life is a race get to the end ahead of you.

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#1679261 - 05/17/11 09:40 AM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1587
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I have actually been working on an extensive blog post about Rubinstein, which I hope to have finished in the next week or so. Fledgehog, I'm glad you're listening to the complete Rubinstein recordings. After I got RCA's Complete Rubinstein edition in 2000, I came to the conclusion that someone who's only heard the later Rubinstein recordings - which are the ones most commonly available - hasn't really heard Rubinstein. His playing and musical conceptions changed a great deal over the years, in some ways for the better - but not universally.

Also, consider that Rubinstein didn't start recording until he was 41 (excepting an early 1910 recording for the Polish Favorit label that's very rare). So, we really are missing the earliest part of his career - oh, to have a time machine.
_________________________
Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

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#1679297 - 05/17/11 10:30 AM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
cardguy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 977
Lil,

That's just phenomenal. What a treat.

When learning a new Chopin Nocturne I always listen to Rubinstein over and over again, for hours sometimes, not so much to try to copy him, although I do try some of that, but to get a sense of the piece's potential in the hands of a master.

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#1679358 - 05/17/11 12:14 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
GradedPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 123
i know this is not about chopin but rubenstein playing the 3rd mv of beethovens moonlight sonata is sensational.

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#1679360 - 05/17/11 12:26 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: Hank Drake]
bennevis Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 1398
Originally Posted By: Hank Drake
I have actually been working on an extensive blog post about Rubinstein, which I hope to have finished in the next week or so. Fledgehog, I'm glad you're listening to the complete Rubinstein recordings. After I got RCA's Complete Rubinstein edition in 2000, I came to the conclusion that someone who's only heard the later Rubinstein recordings - which are the ones most commonly available - hasn't really heard Rubinstein. His playing and musical conceptions changed a great deal over the years, in some ways for the better - but not universally.

Also, consider that Rubinstein didn't start recording until he was 41 (excepting an early 1910 recording for the Polish Favorit label that's very rare). So, we really are missing the earliest part of his career - oh, to have a time machine.


I also find many of Rubinstein's earlier recordings preferable to his later ones, which seem to be to be more self-conscious and more studied and less imaginative. Also I prefer his live concerts (e.g. the marvellous Tel Aviv concert on CD) where he's much less inhibited (wrong notes & all.... grin).

I also prefer Horowitz's earlier recordings, but for altogether different reasons.

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#1679416 - 05/17/11 02:09 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
cefinow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 288
Loc: U.S.
Rubinstein was known for being casual about accuracy. In his autobiography, he said something to this effect, that when he heard Horowitz play for the first time, he immediately regretted not having given more care to playing precisely. There was a copy of "My Young Years" in the local library, and I would stand in the aisle and browse through it on occasion... He seemed like a real bon vivant! I assumed that his greatness was that he could convey joy, and nonchalance, and cheerfulness, and flamboyance, through his playing-- he had a certain elan. Horowitz seemed like a neurotic perfectionist, frightfully sensitive, concerned about perfect notes and perfectly tuned pianos... (that is not a bad thing, I am just noting the contrast of personalities). Someone advised the young Rubinstein's parents that he had such gifts, he should not be limited to the world of a concert pianist-- I was surprised at the thought that a concert pianist could have a limited world-- when I was young, it seemed like the most glamorous profession on earth!

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#1679433 - 05/17/11 02:31 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: GradedPiano]
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1587
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: GradedPiano
i know this is not about chopin but rubenstein playing the 3rd mv of beethovens moonlight sonata is sensational.


I think Rubinstein's Beethoven has often been under appreciated. That Moonlight Sonata recording (apparently, he never even played it in public until he was about 75) is a vital, moving performance.

Rubinstein was the first pianist to record all five Beethoven Concertos in stereo (in the mid-1950s with Krips), and recorded the more popular sonatas several times. Unfortunately, he never got around to recording the Tempest or Pastorale sonatas as he intended, or Op. 90.

His Beethoven G Major concerto with Beecham is very fine - perhaps my favorite Fourth.
_________________________
Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

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#1679436 - 05/17/11 02:34 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1587
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
By the way, for those of you who wanted that big Rubinstein box and never got one, rumor has it that Sony is going to reissue their cache of Rubinstein's recordings again at the end of this year (I don't know if this will include the HMV/EMI, but those are available elsewhere anyway).
_________________________
Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

Top
#1679527 - 05/17/11 05:24 PM Re: Rubinstein's genius [Re: cardguy]
timmyab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 311
Loc: Bristol, UK
For me no one comes close to Rubenstein in the Chopin nocturnes.To be (perhaps a little too) honest, his playing here of the doppia movimento section of op 48 no 1 can still reduce me to tears 30 years after I first heard it.

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