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#1685531 - 05/27/11 12:30 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: PianoZac]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Originally Posted By: 10fingers
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Plus the sounds are just killer. From the Bosendorfer to the C7 grands, to the Petrof and Schimmel uprights, to the killer selection of EPs. If you haven't played the NP88, definitely make an effort to.

As for my action, Nord is replacing the entire key bed. Their customer service is FIRST CLASS. I've been very impressed with our U.S. tech support guy for Nord, Pablo Mastodon. He's prompt, polite, and really cares about getting the job done. Nord actually awarded him and his company an Achievement Award.

Thanks for your thoughts Zachary: it has been largely your posts and the many fine recordings that have me interested in the Nord (you should be on commission)

Great news about Nord's response to your action issues - I'm keen to know whether it turns out this was just an anomaly, or what? The Fatar 1100 I once owned was undistinguished in its performance, but reliable for the several years I abused it.

Anyhow I will not buy another DP until I have checked out the Nord. I'm not looking for perfection, (though I wouldn't refuse it if it came along) - it's mostly the connection between key and sound that makes such a difference to me.


Can I quote you and send it to Nord!? smile It's my pleasure helping out in any way I can. I had a lot of help from other forum members here when I was looking at the NP88. I think the Nord is a unique instrument in that it's sum is much greater than its parts. Although the action isn't as good as the Roland, Yamaha, Kawai DPs, it connects every bit as well and because of the splendid sounds plus dynamic pedal and string resonance modeling, the NP88 feels like am organic piece of gear. It certainly has its weaknesses, but the positive:negative ratio is probably 20:1. I won't be parting from my NP88 anytime soon. I look forward to your thoughts after you get a chance to play one.


Zach- do you feel like you are giving something up by not having the "long release" available in the Nord Stage 2 but not on the NP88. I could care less about organs and synths and it seems stupid to pay 1500 bucks more for "long release"- UNLESS it takes the sound- particularly for recording- to a much higher level. thoughts?
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1685534 - 05/27/11 12:39 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: marknz]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: marknz

The learning curve on the V is greater than the 700 NX because there is so much more you can do to change/enhance the sound, to personalise it to how you would like it to be. It may take a couple of months before you finally decide - Hey I've got it.


The learning curve of the V is more like a learning circle- just when you think you got it figured out you realize you are back where you started- at least for non-sound engineer types or non-piano tuners...!

I wish there were a forum site where people who really knew what they were doing moderated it. Like Pianoteq's- and the ability to upload custom settings for other users to download would be a huge plus. but i feel its a pretty small community
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1685542 - 05/27/11 01:00 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: bfb]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Originally Posted By: bfb

Zach- do you feel like you are giving something up by not having the "long release" available in the Nord Stage 2 but not on the NP88. I could care less about organs and synths and it seems stupid to pay 1500 bucks more for "long release"- UNLESS it takes the sound- particularly for recording- to a much higher level. thoughts?


Honestly, unless you're doing a lot of recording with your keyboard, the Long Release would probably get lost in a live mix, which is where my NP88 spends most of its time. I hope they do upgrade the NP88 to incorporate the LR feature, but only to keep it as good of a DP as possible.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1685547 - 05/27/11 01:16 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: PianoZac]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
[/quote]

Honestly, unless you're doing a lot of recording with your keyboard, the Long Release would probably get lost in a live mix, which is where my NP88 spends most of its time. I hope they do upgrade the NP88 to incorporate the LR feature, but only to keep it as good of a DP as possible. [/quote]

But- if your sole purpose WAS to record, are you thinking it would add a lot? i know you are in nashville- i'm in Atlanta (you can't find squat to sit down and play in atlanta- can't find a cp1, can't find a NP88 or Stage 2. its a joke- but i guess that i what internet retailers have done to squash bricks and mortars retailers). If recording were your primary objective, would that change your thinking? but not classical- jazz-influenced arrangements of pop/hymns/ traditional americana stuff.. (probably not as demanding legato-wise as classical...)
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1685572 - 05/27/11 02:01 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: bfb]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
Originally Posted By: bfb


But- if your sole purpose WAS to record, are you thinking it would add a lot? i know you are in nashville- i'm in Atlanta (you can't find squat to sit down and play in atlanta- can't find a cp1, can't find a NP88 or Stage 2. its a joke- but i guess that i what internet retailers have done to squash bricks and mortars retailers). If recording were your primary objective, would that change your thinking? but not classical- jazz-influenced arrangements of pop/hymns/ traditional americana stuff.. (probably not as demanding legato-wise as classical...)

Well I think the LR feature would add some to the overall sound, but I've recorded my NP88 twice, once doing my own American Songbook stuff, and the other doing piano parts for a Country artist here, and both times, the engineers were blown away with the sound of my NP88. With or without the LR feature, the NP88 sounds great recorded. I was only saying that really the biggest benefit I see in the LR feature is recording, and like you said, that's mostly advantageous when playing legato. Fact is, who wants to play and record a bunch of classical on the NP88? You can play anything on it, and it responds really well, and connects superbly, but the action isn't fit for that kind of playing IMHO.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1685579 - 05/27/11 02:14 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: bfb]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3194
Originally Posted By: bfb
do you feel like you are giving something up by not having the "long release" available in the Nord Stage 2 but not on the NP88. I could care less about organs and synths and it seems stupid to pay 1500 bucks more for "long release"- UNLESS it takes the sound- particularly for recording- to a much higher level. thoughts?

Personally, from playing the Stage 2, I thought the Long Release was a substantial benefit. Enough so that, if I didn't want to spend the money on a Stage 2, if I could possibly live with 73 keys, I'd be inclined to buy the Electro 3 HP instead of the Nord Piano. Yes, in that case, you lose a different feature, you don't get the enhanced string resonance features, but if I had to choose, that's the trade-off I'd pick. I think the long release makes a more noticeable difference... at least it comes into play more often.

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#1685632 - 05/27/11 04:21 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: anotherscott]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
anotherscott, thanks for your response. i appreciate what you are saying. i play a lot of dissonant chords, a lot of flat 9th's and 13th's and sus chords and a lot of stride type left hand. so the shorter decay probably isn't the end of the world for me. i really liked the string resonance on the website samples, so i'm reluctant to give that up. i don't play legato unless i'm trying to sound country/folk james taylorish half-time stuff- and i kind of like a plucky sound with that since i'm trying to simulate a bit of acoustic guitar on the piano. my classical playing is something i gave up on about 45 years ago...

i sure wish i could play one of these things. if i could dump the v-piano for 4K i might do the stage 2. if i sit on the v -( somebody in one of these threads thought it might be a collectible some day?- sort of like a selectric typewriter..) the 2700 bucks sure is less painful. as the Wicked Witch once said, "oh what a world..what a world"..

zach- thanks also for your input. i like the fact your recording engineers liked it. they have highly trained ears. much more so than mine!
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1685717 - 05/27/11 07:59 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: bfb]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: bfb
if i could dump the v-piano for 4K i might do the stage 2. if i sit on the v -( somebody in one of these threads thought it might be a collectible some day?- sort of like a selectric typewriter..) the 2700 bucks sure is less painful. as the Wicked Witch once said, "oh what a world..what a world"..

Have you tried a pm to pv88? Sounds like you would both benefit...

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#1685722 - 05/27/11 08:11 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9059
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I believe he intends to purchase a brand new instrument, however it's still worth sending a PM.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1685833 - 05/28/11 01:14 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: 10fingers
Originally Posted By: bfb
if i could dump the v-piano for 4K i might do the stage 2. if i sit on the v -( somebody in one of these threads thought it might be a collectible some day?- sort of like a selectric typewriter..) the 2700 bucks sure is less painful. as the Wicked Witch once said, "oh what a world..what a world"..

Have you tried a pm to pv88? Sounds like you would both benefit...


@ bfb & 10fingers, above:

I think James is correct when he says that I intend to buy a new Roland V-Piano, and not a used or demo model. I have been tempted to look at lesser priced pianos (like at eBay, for example) however, I really would prefer it to be brand new with the full Roland warranty behind it.

pv88

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#1685837 - 05/28/11 01:41 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: pv88]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3561
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: pv88
I can only hope that a V-Piano will be available to me (and it will not be discontinued), after I have eventually reached the final payment.


Your seller should have one put aside if it's on "layaway". That's actually what it means - they lay the product away in storage until you complete payment. You have an unusually long layaway period, but if it's a layaway, the product must be put aside to guarantee that it's available to you if you pay by the agreed deadline.

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#1685852 - 05/28/11 02:14 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: ando]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Hi ando,

I haven't gotten too far with this layaway as of yet, so what do you think are my best options?

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#1685868 - 05/28/11 03:03 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9059
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
What exactly is the benefit of this 'layaway' plan?

Would it not be better to put the money in a savings account, then purchase the instrument once you have accumulated enough funds?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1685872 - 05/28/11 03:32 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
pv88, did you mention what you will be using the 'V' for?

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#1685877 - 05/28/11 03:53 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
What exactly is the benefit of this 'layaway' plan?

Would it not be better to put the money in a savings account, then purchase the instrument once you accumulated enough funds?

Cheers,
James
x


James,

The benefit of the layaway (the way I see it) was to guarantee that I would in fact have an actual V-Piano to buy, regardless of how long it might it take me to save the money, on a monthly basis.

pv88

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#1685878 - 05/28/11 03:55 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: 10fingers
pv88, did you mention what you will be using the 'V' for?


Yes, it is for home use, only. To represent an "acoustic" grand, primarily.

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#1685880 - 05/28/11 04:11 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9059
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: pv88
The benefit of the layaway (the way I see it) was to guarantee that I would in fact have an actual V-Piano to buy, regardless of how long it might it take me to save the money, on a monthly basis.


I very much doubt the V-Piano will disappear any time soon. Even if Roland do decide to stop production (unlikely for the foreseeable future - or at least until the V-Piano 2 is launched), I expect you will still be able to buy brand new instruments for several years to come.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1685884 - 05/28/11 04:23 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
James,

That is good news to hear assuming that it is true (and, I hope you are right), although it could take me quite a while before the layaway is paid off.

Extra note:
I would very interested in seeing a "V-Piano 2," if they eventually do release a new model.

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#1686080 - 05/28/11 01:26 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: pv88]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: pv88

Yes, it is for home use, only. To represent an "acoustic" grand, primarily.


If it's for home use only, are there noise constraints or other factors preventing you from buying a real grand piano? There are VERY good deals to be found right now in the second hand AP market.

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#1686112 - 05/28/11 02:49 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: 10fingers
Originally Posted By: pv88

Yes, it is for home use, only. To represent an "acoustic" grand, primarily.


If it's for home use only, are there noise constraints or other factors preventing you from buying a real grand piano? There are VERY good deals to be found right now in the second hand AP market.


I do not have space in my small place for an acoustic grand, and, I also want to be able to use headphones.

That is why the V-Piano appears to be the perfect choice.

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#1686116 - 05/28/11 03:03 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Then I second James's suggestion that you put the funds into a savings account until ready to purchase. Anything can happen to an internet store in six months. You have clearly shown that you have the will power to save the money, now just save it in an account that gives you a return, and over which you have total control.

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#1686130 - 05/28/11 03:27 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
[Edited]

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#1686514 - 05/29/11 11:23 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3194
I think lawaway only makes sense on an item that may not otherwise be available when you're ready to buy (something seasonal, or one-of-a-kind or has other kind of limited availability, or that may be discontinued but you want it anyway), where they will actually hold the item for you on premises; or during inflationary times, to lock in a price that may otherwise likely move higher.

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#1687526 - 05/31/11 02:21 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
I'm going to make one last attempt to track down both a Nord Piano and the Kawai MP10 and even the CA63. Then I'll order an RD700NX if no luck.

I've realized that it's not the end of the world if I don't make the best choice. The Roland is a very accomplished machine on which I can do good work AND have a lot of fun.

I did return to the shop last week, and played it again, just running through a KC880. Why they wouldn't at least run it through two speakers, I don't know. Anyway, it sounded okay, but nothing like through the headphones.

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#1687700 - 05/31/11 11:28 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
10fingers, may I ask what you're using this keyboard for primarily? If for gigging, I'd definitely try to play a Nord Piano. The 16lbs difference in weight between it and the RD700NX is HUGE. Also, you never get bored with the NP88. If your primary purpose is for a home DP, I'd take a long look at the MP10. Unfortunately, they're hard to find and right now, out of stock at most places.

Either way, as you said, the RD-700NX is a great board that you really can't go wrong with.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1687943 - 05/31/11 05:00 PM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Zachary, I will use this for very few gigs, so the heft doesn't matter so much to me. Even the RD would be a big improvement on my original RD700, which I seem to remember clocked the scales at around 70 lbs. My second DP (an absolute dog, I might add) was a Yamaha PF80, which must have run about 110lbs in its flight case!!! However I was fitter and stronger 30 years ago smile [Still, it about killed me carrying it up a flight of stairs in my London flat.]

I would love to try out the Kawai as well as the Nord, and will make one more attempt to locate them. James was kind enough to send me details of a Kawai contact in my area, but I never heard back from him (the contact). Seems a shame that a company can produce such fine instruments (I like their APs as well), but lacks the distribution to adequately reach the market place.

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#1688219 - 06/01/11 01:12 AM Re: Connundrum: frustrating search for DP nirvana [Re: 10fingers]
marknz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Actually you will find that your old RD700 (If that's the model you mean) is lighter than the new 700NX by half a kilo. The 700 being 24.5kgs and the 700NX being 25kgs. the case being exactly the same shape and dimensions. The old Roland RD300s was around the 70 pound mark you mentioned.
_________________________
Roland RD700NX, Korg SV1 88.

Thank God for the gift of Music

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