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#1686846 - 05/30/11 02:09 AM What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes?
weldon29 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 81
On a lot of music scores, on repeated notes, the fingering is always alternating. The answer from my teacher was that it was so that each note sounds slightly different from each other, but lately I tried playing repeated notes with the same finger, and the sound I got was the same as when I was alternating my fingers.

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#1686848 - 05/30/11 02:15 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
fledgehog Offline
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from my experience, it saves wrist and finger tension -- instead of having to quickly raise your hand and hammer it back down again, it has a more fluid motion. for me, it's all contextual though. sometimes i play repeated notes with the same fingering, other times i use different ones.

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#1686852 - 05/30/11 02:33 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: fledgehog]
weldon29 Offline
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Originally Posted By: fledgehog
from my experience, it saves wrist and finger tension -- instead of having to quickly raise your hand and hammer it back down again, it has a more fluid motion. for me, it's all contextual though. sometimes i play repeated notes with the same fingering, other times i use different ones.
So for playing slow or moderate repeated notes, using alternating fingers really doesn't help much than.

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#1686855 - 05/30/11 02:42 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
Mark_C Offline
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Sounds like either you misunderstood something from the teacher, or it was about something a little different than what you seem to be asking.

It has nothing to do with making the notes sound different. It's just because you can play repeated notes faster and more delicately if you change fingers. If the repeated notes don't need to be real fast and/or delicate, you don't have to change fingers, but some players prefer usually to do it anyway.
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#1686856 - 05/30/11 02:52 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
music32 Offline
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You get more definition and surges of energy with changed fingers.
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#1686859 - 05/30/11 03:08 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: music32]
kevinb Offline
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This is an area where fashions have changed over the years. At one time it was customary to change fingers on every repeated note, however long the notes, and whether or not the fingering of the following passage required it. These days my experience is that many pianists do this only on fast passages, or to take advantage of longer repeated notes to shift their hands for better fingering of the following notes.

I still come across piano teachers who insist that their students use different fingers on every repeated note, but I've yet to hear any justification of this practice that stands up to much scrutiny. I suppose it can be argued that you should learn how to use different fingers on the same note even when you don't have to, because sometimes you will have to. But to my mind that's not a a compelling argument.

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#1686885 - 05/30/11 04:58 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
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#1686900 - 05/30/11 06:15 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: fledgehog]
Exalted Wombat Offline
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Registered: 02/28/09
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Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: fledgehog
...instead of having to quickly raise your hand and hammer it back down again...


This doesn't add up! You can choose between finger and hand action whether it's the same finger or a different one.

It's for the same reason you finger a scale 1,2,3,4,5 rather than 2,2,2,2,2 (which is demonstrably more natural to an absolute beginner.) It enables faster playing. Whether it actually makes a difference in slower passages is debatable. It may just be that we have muscular memory of playing smooth passage-work with alternating fingers. I'm sure there are several theories :-)

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#1686920 - 05/30/11 07:29 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C

It has nothing to do with making the notes sound different. It's just because you can play repeated notes faster and more delicately if you change fingers. If the repeated notes don't need to be real fast and/or delicate, you don't have to change fingers, but some players prefer usually to do it anyway.


This is the correct answer. Ignore the rest. smile

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#1686928 - 05/30/11 07:53 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
feebeeliszt Online   shocked
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I think either way is okay if you could managed to "get the sound you want". Argerich does a lot of repeated notes on the same finger
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#1686935 - 05/30/11 08:07 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
drumour Offline
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If you were playing rapidly repeated octaves or chords you wouldn't think use of the same fingers to be an issue. With a properly balanced hand, it needn't be an issue with repeated single notes either. However there's no need to be dogmatic. If there's an opportunity to set up for what's coming next then be sensible and use it. You can also vary the contact point with the key.

John
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#1686947 - 05/30/11 08:36 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: drumour]
Damon Offline
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Originally Posted By: drumour
If you were playing rapidly repeated octaves or chords you wouldn't think use of the same fingers to be an issue.


That's an example that doesn't often offer a choice, but depending on the chord, I could repeat it faster and with more dynamic control if I alternate hands.

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#1686948 - 05/30/11 08:38 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
bennevis Offline
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Registered: 10/14/10
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It saves you having to count if you use different fingers (assuming of course you remember how many fingers you've got grin), as in Beethoven's Appassionata (I). In Ravel's Scarbo and many other works, it's impossible to play the repeated notes fast enough with the same finger.

If neither of those applies, I normally decide which method (same finger or alternate fingers) is easier, and use it - playing the piano is hard enough as it is without making things harder just to satisfy some dogma of dubious provenance.....

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#1686971 - 05/30/11 09:14 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
Orange Soda King Offline
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With slower repeated notes where you have a very easy choice between alternating fingers or using the same finger, DON'T DO IT unless it's for a better fingering before or after those repeated notes. What is the point of it??

However, once they get so fast, you need to alternate fingers.


Edited by Orange Soda King (05/30/11 09:15 AM)
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#1686998 - 05/30/11 09:54 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
chobeethaninov Offline
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Registered: 10/16/10
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It gives you way more control and stamina. Imagine playing this without alternating fingers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcsRl_LIJHA
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#1687007 - 05/30/11 10:07 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: Orange Soda King]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 4478
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
With slower repeated notes where you have a very easy choice between alternating fingers or using the same finger, DON'T DO IT unless it's for a better fingering before or after those repeated notes. What is the point of it??


What is the point of alternating, you mean? I can only tell you why I do, even on slow parts.
1. It keeps me from developing the habit of an unnecessary choice which leads to unnecessary mistakes.
2. It almost always helps me develop better fingering for before and after the notes in question.
3. It's an easy way to keep track of an odd number of repeated notes.
4. It looks cooler.

smile

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#1687068 - 05/30/11 11:28 AM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
survivordan Offline
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Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 844
Loc: Ohio
The reason for alternating fingers is because it allows each finger to have a break for a few notes, which reduces tension in the hand.
Famous pianist Ruth Sleczynska said that the reason to alternate was so that you could depend on the action of your fingers and not the action of the piano - in other words, when you don't alternate you depend on the piano to dictate how fast the key can come up and go back down, but when you do alternate, fingers can leave and re-attack the key faster.
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#1687103 - 05/30/11 12:32 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: Mark_C]
TheHappyMoron Offline
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Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 984
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Sounds like either you misunderstood something from the teacher, or it was about something a little different than what you seem to be asking.

It has nothing to do with making the notes sound different. It's just because you can play repeated notes faster and more delicately if you change fingers. If the repeated notes don't need to be real fast and/or delicate, you don't have to change fingers, but some players prefer usually to do it anyway.


What he said.
Orshoulditbe:whathesaid.Writinglikethismakesthingsseemalotmorecomplicatedbutthelackofwastedspaceisquiteproductive!
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#1687183 - 05/30/11 03:17 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: TheHappyMoron]
survivordan Offline
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Registered: 01/01/09
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Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: TheCannibalHaddock
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Sounds like either you misunderstood something from the teacher, or it was about something a little different than what you seem to be asking.

It has nothing to do with making the notes sound different. It's just because you can play repeated notes faster and more delicately if you change fingers. If the repeated notes don't need to be real fast and/or delicate, you don't have to change fingers, but some players prefer usually to do it anyway.


What he said.
Orshoulditbe:whathesaid.Writinglikethismakesthingsseemalotmorecomplicatedbutthelackofwastedspaceisquiteproductive!


Howtrue!
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#1687204 - 05/30/11 04:02 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
Kreisler Offline

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Same finger: Up and down.

Different fingers: Curvy motion.

That's why.
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#1687229 - 05/30/11 05:00 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: survivordan]
David-G Offline
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Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1129
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: survivordan
Famous pianist Ruth Sleczynska said that the reason to alternate was so that you could depend on the action of your fingers and not the action of the piano - in other words, when you don't alternate you depend on the piano to dictate how fast the key can come up and go back down, but when you do alternate, fingers can leave and re-attack the key faster.

This does not seem to make sense. Surely it does not matter how fast the action of your fingers is if the action of the piano cannot keep up with them?

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#1687230 - 05/30/11 05:00 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
gooddog Offline
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Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 3920
Loc: Seattle area, WA
All of the above make practical sense, but to my ears, alternating fingers simply sounds better.
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#1687262 - 05/30/11 05:51 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: weldon29]
Drunk3nFist Offline
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Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 624
Loc: London
You need to exert more effort in order to lift up and press down again with the same finger. Switching fingers quickly means you can play repeated notes with less strain, effort and tension, just like what fledgehog said.

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#1687275 - 05/30/11 06:12 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: Damon]
Dave Horne Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

It has nothing to do with making the notes sound different. It's just because you can play repeated notes faster and more delicately if you change fingers. If the repeated notes don't need to be real fast and/or delicate, you don't have to change fingers, but some players prefer usually to do it anyway.


This is the correct answer. Ignore the rest. smile


I was going to quote Mark's post and say essentially the same. Damon, we can agree on some things it would seem. smile
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#1687301 - 05/30/11 06:59 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: Dave Horne]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
....Damon, we can agree on some things it would seem. smile

....and I think it's the first time he thought I was right about something. ha
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#1687319 - 05/30/11 07:21 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: Dave Horne]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
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Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

It has nothing to do with making the notes sound different. It's just because you can play repeated notes faster and more delicately if you change fingers. If the repeated notes don't need to be real fast and/or delicate, you don't have to change fingers, but some players prefer usually to do it anyway.


This is the correct answer. Ignore the rest. smile


I was going to quote Mark's post and say essentially the same. Damon, we can agree on some things it would seem. smile


We probably agree about a lot of things. The role of government is not one of them. wink

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#1687321 - 05/30/11 07:22 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
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Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
....Damon, we can agree on some things it would seem. smile

....and I think it's the first time he thought I was right about something. ha


Actually, I think you are right about many things, just don't quiz me. laugh

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#1687323 - 05/30/11 07:31 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: Kreisler]
drumour Offline
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Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 724
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Same finger: Up and down.

Different fingers: Curvy motion.

That's why.



Only if you do 'em that way. You don't often come out with nonsensical stuff, but come on - really!


John
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#1687350 - 05/30/11 08:10 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: Mark_C]
David-G Offline
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Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1129
Loc: London
I can appreciate why alternating fingers should be easier, and give a smoother result. The problem is, that I have never been able to alternate fingers on one note. Can anyone give me some advice on how to go about it? Does one finger go behind the other, or do they both hit the same spot on the key? Presumably there has to be some hand motion to keep the two fingers in the same place. But unless this hand motion is very precise, my fingers tend to catch the adjacent keys. Any advice would be welcome!

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#1687454 - 05/30/11 11:11 PM Re: What'sthereasonbehindalternating fingers on reapeated notes? [Re: TheHappyMoron]
weldon29 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 81
Originally Posted By: TheCannibalHaddock
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Sounds like either you misunderstood something from the teacher, or it was about something a little different than what you seem to be asking.

It has nothing to do with making the notes sound different. It's just because you can play repeated notes faster and more delicately if you change fingers. If the repeated notes don't need to be real fast and/or delicate, you don't have to change fingers, but some players prefer usually to do it anyway.


What he said.
Orshoulditbe:whathesaid.Writinglikethismakesthingsseemalotmorecomplicatedbutthelackofwastedspaceisquiteproductive!
There's a limit of of many characters I can use in the topic title.

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