Hello Everyone, Every time I seat down at an Avant Grand by Yamaha I'm blown away with the sound. Any one out there that knows anything about this remarkable piano ? Would I be better off with a real piano ? Any plus or minus about Avant Grand. Thanks again. Steve

Hi Steve... from your past posts you seem to have been looking into Steinway and Yamaha, all good brands... However, I think an acoustic grand 5'8" or larger could probably blow away the AvantGrand in the realism department. For the price you might even find a 6'. Of course, the AG sound comes from a concert grand so it will have a deeper bass among other tonal qualities not found in a 6' or smaller piano. The AG is very good though if what you are looking for is a grand action with pedal and keyboard feedback, silent mode, and volume control.

People have the AG and are very happy with it. Whether or not you'd be "better off" with it depends on what you are looking for in a piano.

Steve,

Many people love the AvantGrand. I should know. We sell an awful lot of them.

I'd really like to tell you more, but almost anything that I could say here would sound like an ad. Send me a PM if you wish and I'll share with you all the reasons why the AvantGrand might be a good choice for you.

Thank you for the reply. The base does sound good. For a little more money I might be happy with a good grand piano. Thank you. Steve

They are great, but I can't see spending that type of money and not buying a real, substantial acoustic grand.

It's the best DP I have played. Yes it's nice.

But the sound can not even beat a well prepared upright. A reasonable good grand beats it hands down.

I played only with the speakers. If you play with headphones I don't know, maybe cheaper DPs sound exactly the same or even better than a AG?

I own a DP but not the AvantGrand, because to me, the AG sounds just like any other high-end Yamaha DPs (like the CLP-380) costing a fraction of its price when played through headphones - which is only logical as all Yamaha DPs are sampled from the CF-IIIS (none from the new CFX as yet). But it doesn't have the playability or 'feel' or response to the touch of a real acoustic grand, nor of the DP I eventually bought (V-Piano), which is what matters to me most. The AG's speaker system is very impressive, so it will appeal to those who mainly play using its speakers but also need to use headphones occasionally. (If you don't need to use headphones at all, why buy a DP in the first place?)

I've played the AG, and the great thing about it is the action. NOT the sound. The sound is very ordinary, just like any of their other good digital pianos. I prefer the sound of my beat up old Yamaha P22 studio upright to the sound of the AG. If I got a regulation done, I'd be extremely happy with both the action and the sound of my upright. If I had $15-20K to spend and a place where thin walls and neighbors aren't an issue, I wouldn't even be considering digital pianos (and uprights). A real grand piano is the only way I'd go.

Hi! I have a recording studio, and I use many plug-ins that are sampled deeper and most accurate than this kind of DP.....the unique reason that this machines are better than a plug-in is the keyboard.....but I can say now that I own a real grand piano that nothing could be the same thing.....now and in the future.....Is like having sex with a perfect robot girl that is a real exact copy of a beautifil girl....but is not human!!!!! :-)

But what if no one told you that your perfect robot girl isn't human?

And even if you knew, surely the advantages to that "perfect robot girl" make her worth knowing. Maintenance costs are nothing compared to the "real thing". She's always in perfect shape no matter the temperature or the humidity. She never needs to be tuned, yet she's always perfectly in tune. You can listen to her beautiful, powerful voice all night long without waking the kids or bothering the neighbors. And she feels exactly like the real thing because the parts that you touch are real.

You want to take your real girl to the beach? Not a good idea. Salt water air will turn her into her grandmother in no time. "Robot girl"? Take her to the beach every day if you want. By comparison, the consequences will be minimal. You want to leave her alone all winter in your under-heated country home? Not a good idea for "Miss Human". I don't need to tell you what a disaster that would be. "Miss Robot"? No problem. When you go visit her after the long winter is over, there won't be even a hint of a complaint.

In my experience, people who equate playing a piano to having sex are seriously hung up on themselves and most likely have an inflated opinion of their playing ability as well.

With a digital product especially, it's up to each individual to decide if the package of applications, special features, and limitations fits the user profile, and if the price makes sense.

Yamaha set the bar pretty high with the Avant price. It's up to the market to determine if there's enough there to warrant the huge premium over more modestly-priced digital pianos that offer more tonal possibilities in a less glitzy case with a simpler action and an inferior speaker array.

If you've spent some time with this instrument, money is a non-issue, and you feel that the instrument fits your user profile, then there's no reason not to buy it. You've commented on the sound reproduction, so that Avant speaker array should obviously be worth something to you. In my own case, I play a digital at home exclusively through headphones, so there isn't the same value for me in that department.

My advice is to get thoroughly familiar with all the apps so that you're beyond the "blown away" stage and can make a cold rational decision (sorry Irving ). In posting on the acoustic forum, it's inevitable that you'll get some black/white thumbs-down opinions of a digital instrument that attempts to replicate an acoustic. Like mot things in life though, it's shades of grey. Weigh all your perceived pluses and minuses before you commit.

Dear Irving,

Is Sara at all disturbed with your facility in making this analogy?

This brings up the issue of which instrument my dog prefers.

After all, lock your dog and your wife in the trunk of your car for an hour or so.

See which one is happy to see you when you let them out.

Wow!!!!!!
Naturally the story of the robot girl it's a joke!!!! some kind of paradox!!! I never want to compare piano playing with having sex with someone...... If someone misunderstood I have to beg my pardon.....and first of all I DO NOT HAVE AN INFLATED OPINION OF MY MUSICAL ABILITY!!!! Never in my life!
But......I can say for sure that sampled piano is NOT the same as a real piano.... just a matter of taste..... This problem is not so serious.... everyone likes what is better for himselve! and that's all...
P.S sorry for my bad english..... :-)

I can think of plenty of uprights that would be soundly beaten by the Avant Grand.We should be more specific when describing sound and making comparisons;

Bass-Rich and resonant? Natural decay(or just a loop getting softer).Plenty of little uprights fall short here.
Treble section-ringing,bell-like?clear?clean?
Middle keyboard clear and resonant?

Tone Harsh?smooth?

Just some suggestions.Plenty of uprights fall short of reasonable musical requirements.

Agreed....but then, there are more than plenty that beat any and every DP hands down.

Avant Grands are good pianos but for me they're still quite fake.

However, the advantages of the Avant-Grand - a touch that IS a grand piano touch combined with great sound, no need for maintenance except for some regulation once in a while, no ill effects from the weather (it's exceptionally humid on the east coast of Scotland in summer), being able to practise in silence or utilize the speaker system, and having a quality grand piano sound and touch when space only allows an upright are all great ideas and advantages.

Yes, a C2 is a better piano when you are talking about pure piano. However, this machine will make big waves.

joe80,

Why would there be '"no ill effects from the weather" on the action, particularly because it is a real grand action? Piano actions are prone to weather conditions especially if the climate is very humid!

schwammerl.

ah ok.....you win.

in one respect, the action wont effect the tone, since the tone is digital.

Hi Steve,

For whats its worth, shop around. Never pay RRP, there are always deals to be done.

I suspect if you were to say to the people that have commented below, whats your opinion with an extra £5k (as I did with my nearly new one) off the RRP, they may have a more favorable response ! ...

So far, all of the discussion that I've read here about the AvantGrand has focused on its practicality and on how close (or not) it comes to sounding like a "real piano". But "real piano" sound varies countless ways and can mean very different things to different people. So it's hard to know just what we're talking about.

In the interest of making the term "real piano" more meaningful in a real world context, let's take the individual player out of the equation. Let's focus just on how pleasing (or not) a piano might be to an audience in a modest-sized performance space.

So here's the mind game: A pianist is coming to perform for your church, school or music group. You've been entrusted to select the piano for the performance. You need a piano that will sound as sweet, rich, powerful and pianistic as possible. Both the pianist and the audience would be disappointed by anything less than the best that you could provide. You have three pianos from which to choose: A new 48" Asian upright (any one that you can think of); a new five-foot baby grand from a reputable maker of mid-range pianos (also any one that you can think of); and a new model N3 AvantGrand.

Which piano will you choose? How much weight will the "real piano" concept play in your decision? Alternatively, if you think that this isn't fair enough competition for the AvantGrand, tell us the least expensive new piano that you would choose over it for the performance. Just remember, you have to please both the audience and the pianist.

Irving, on those criteria, I think the AvantGrand is a clear winner. It would have far more bass depth than the other two, plus it's guaranteed to be in tune. But you are right, it isn't very stiff competition. I tend to think that the sound of a piano is more important for the player than for the listener. As a listener you tend to appreciate the music and focus on what's enjoyable about the sound. As a player, having an instrument that responds to your input and makes you feel involved in the music is very important. As much as I appreciate the sound of a fine piano, if Yevgeny Kissin decided to give a concert on an AvantGrand one day, I think I would enjoy it just as much. (not that he would, of course)

Let me ask you this. In a hypothetical situation, (imagine) Kissin is playing a concert in two adjacent halls at the same time. One on a Yamaha AvantGrand and one on a similarly priced grand piano (say a well maintained 25 year old Yamaha C3). Which one would you attend? Do you think the Avant Grand would equal the performance of a real grand piano? Keep in mind hall acoustics too.

I believe the one with the real C3 would be better, but that wasn't the hypothetical I was answering. I didn't make the rules for that hypothetical. I still think the quality of the piano is a lower priority than the quality of the music and the musician. A master on a crappy upright easily beats a novice on a Steinway.

As long as hypotheticals are being thrown around, if there were two C3's to be had, both nearly identical except one held its tune for years before needing a tuning, which would you be more interested in? For me there's nothing more distracting that a piano that is very slightly out of tune.

When I owned a C3 I had a deal worked out with a friend, a trumpeter who also tuned and worked on pianos. I made him practice tapes and he tuned my piano for free. (I also supplied him with lunch as well.)

It was a great deal for both of us. The only reason that deal existed, I played a great deal and the C3 needed to be tuned many times per year - up to six times a year. For an every day practice piano a grand piano action coupled to a system that never needs to be tuned is more than adequate for me. For some folks a piano has great emotional meaning, for me it's a tool to get a job done.

Yes, ando, I agree about the musician/novice/crappy/Steinway bit. Makes every sense to me. Also, I think any well maintained piano would sound better (more authentic, at least) than any digital piano made at the moment. Although I have played exceptions to this: a church piano (a console Hailun Bernstein branded piano) played and sounded like a harpsichord; it was quite hilarious to play and listen to though.

Tom

You are trying to reduce a piano to the SOUND from a piano (it could be any sound producing device, right?). Sounds wrong to me.

I don't follow your suggestion that 'real piano' would be not meaningful. I think with 'real piano' people mean the traditional acoustic piano with mechanical action, real soundboard, real vibrating strings tensioned with an iron frame, etc, without any electronics. Seems perfectly meaningful to me.

Furthermore, 99.9% of the time the PLAYER is the only audience. So following your argument consistently you should remove the AUDIENCE out of the equation and focus on the player.

Since we are doing hypotheticals on how realistic the Avante Grand sounds, let me ask this:

If an Avante Grand, set to its best Yamaha concert grand sample, were played side-by-side with an acoustic Yamaha convert grand, and both pianos were screended from the audience's view, would they be able to tell which was which?

Would they prefer one over the other?

Great question for many here. It should be stated that Yamaha is not marketing this piano as a replacement for the concert stage (though Chick Corea did mention the possibility of using one on stage in his electric set up).

I think it could give many grands a run for their money, but the thing is, Yamaha is not marketing this as a substitute for a concert grand. They'd have to use the action from a nine footer and what they have appears to be the action from a C3; I realize I'm now talking about the action though.

I practice mostly with headphones and it sounds great through headphones. When I crank it up without headphones, it sounds surprisingly real when played at the level you would expect to hear from a 'real' piano. I think I could fool a few people if nothing were said.

This is getting off topic but for me I see this technology as being great for music university practice pianos and well as for the entertainment industry - cruise ships, hotels and churches. It never needs to be tuned and has the feel, sound and looks of a grand piano.

I cannot comment on the AvantGrand but two weeks ago I was on one of Roland's 'World Premiere Presentaion Tours' in Brussels where they introduced the V-Grand. Three professional classical pianists played a mainly classical repertoire in a traditional concert hall setting.

And no the V-Grand did not convey the intended emotions of the classical pieces to the audience as an acoustic grand can do. E.g I was not moved at all when one of Schubert's Impromptus was played as I normally am.
Although different settings were used the mid lacked expression and the highs were cold and shrill. Dynamics (from ppp to fff) yes if defined as from very low volume to very high but an accordingly change in colour, no.

The instrument allowed for virtuosic playing when a special version of Rhopsody in Blue was performed. So perhaps for more popular or jazz music maybe yes.

schwammerl.