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#1689891 - 06/03/11 12:39 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Andromaque]
NeilOS Offline
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Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 451
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
I play for pleasure, mine.
Playing for an audience woudld require vast amounts of narcissism, which I do not have. smile


I find this troubling. It's true that the compulsion to perform is often couched in a strong ego. But I like to think of a performance as a gift for others, a gift that's carefully and thoughtfully prepared in the hopes that it will bring enlightenment, catharsis or merely pleasure.
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#1689892 - 06/03/11 12:45 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: emmov]
NeilOS Offline
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Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 451
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: emmov
It's for the music, for myself, and I guess...sometimes for the audience. Playing 'for the composer' seems a little egotistic, but certainly, I think about the composer while I play/before playing (that's to be expected though.)


I like to think of the score as a portal linking me to the composer, that we are in communication without barriers of time. It is a way of bringing him/her back to life. This is quite a power, don't you think?
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#1689895 - 06/03/11 12:50 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: NeilOS]
Gerard12 Offline
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Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 609
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: NeilOS
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
I play for pleasure, mine.
Playing for an audience woudld require vast amounts of narcissism, which I do not have. smile


........It's true that the compulsion to perform is often couched in a strong ego. But I like to think of a performance as a gift for others, a gift that's carefully and thoughtfully prepared in the hopes that it will bring enlightenment, catharsis or merely pleasure.


That's a great way to put it, Neil!


Edited by Gerard12 (06/03/11 01:00 PM)
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#1689918 - 06/03/11 01:30 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skorpius]
BDB Offline
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Registered: 06/07/03
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Loc: Oakland
I play for the groupies.
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#1689921 - 06/03/11 01:37 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: survivordan]
music32 Offline
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You couldn't have said it better. I agree.
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#1689940 - 06/03/11 02:13 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skorpius]
AnonymousInvention Offline
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Registered: 04/15/11
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Loc: Florida
I play and compose because I have to. I can't not do it.
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#1689980 - 06/03/11 03:33 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: AnonymousInvention]
NeilOS Offline
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Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 451
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: AnonymousInvention
I play and compose because I have to. I can't not do it.


Hear, hear!
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#1690026 - 06/03/11 05:24 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: BDB]
AldenH Online   content
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Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 271
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: BDB
I play for the groupies.


Like Lang Lang =]

As do I. One of the many reasons...
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Étude project: Chopin Études Op. 10 Nos. 8 and 9, Rach Étude-Tableau Op. 39, No. 5 in E-flat minor

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#1690028 - 06/03/11 05:30 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skorpius]
chercherchopin Offline
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Registered: 04/25/11
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How's playing for 'groupies' different from playing for the audience?

Just curious, as it's so rare to see 'groupie' used in a classical piano context.
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#1690044 - 06/03/11 05:52 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skorpius]
AldenH Online   content
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Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 271
Loc: Texas
Stylistically speaking: Total flashy grandstanding to please the (presumably slightly shallow) audience. I.e., make it sexy!

You've obviously never seen Lisztomania =D
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Bach P+F 17 in G minor (WTC I), Mozart K. 488 (1st mvt), Beethoven Op. 10, No. 2, Chopin Ballade No.2 in F, Op. 38
Étude project: Chopin Études Op. 10 Nos. 8 and 9, Rach Étude-Tableau Op. 39, No. 5 in E-flat minor

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#1690055 - 06/03/11 06:11 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skorpius]
Samuel1993 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 338
Loc: United Kingdom
A bit of each really. I have a passion for piano. I love it so much I want to share with others, and I love sharing the music of my favorite composers with other people smile.
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#1690081 - 06/03/11 07:15 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skorpius]
chobeethaninov Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1216
Loc: USA
For me it's because I love music more than anything. I cannot live without music in my life. It is as much a part of me as breathing and eating. Piano just happens to be my favorite medium (but sometimes I wish I played the violin)...
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#1690122 - 06/03/11 08:42 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skorpius]
Canonie Offline
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Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
I often put my ego aside and perform for a student in a lesson, or for a friend. I have to put my ego aside because I know that my performance was not yet perfect, that I will demonstrate some errors and lumpiness in front of students. Youtube video would be so much easier, but there is an extra something in the live experience.

This gift that I want to give, the first experience of hearing Brahms for example, is so wonderful that I must give it. Hearing "oh, I love that piece" from children from 11 to 14 who come from families where classical music is never played is... I can't even describe how special and important this is. They are being given the gift of a window into arenas of music that are profoundly important. Then we discuss it, describe it, ponder how long before they could attempt the piece. Teaching the love and understanding of musics is part of what I do, not just the technical execution.

Last week it was Haydn and before that Bach.

I remain grateful to those 2 generous performance majors who awakened my interest in piano in my 30's by playing for me. Sometimes I went to their performances, often they played when requested to at home. Nothing better than an impromptu show and tell. I'm lucky they were comfortable with the idea of performance, come to think of it i'm lucky that <all those concert pianists> are comfortable with performing. I'm just doing my bit, listening to others, and playing for others to listen. It's 2 sides of the same thing. I feel a duty to do my best to introduce people to musics that could bring so much joy.

That's why I'm a teacher!
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Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

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#1690158 - 06/03/11 10:08 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: chobeethaninov]
Orange Soda King Online   happy
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4623
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: chobeethaninov
For me it's because I love music more than anything. I cannot live without music in my life. It is as much a part of me as breathing and eating. Piano just happens to be my favorite medium (but sometimes I wish I played the violin)...


Have you sung in a choir yet? smile
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#1690166 - 06/03/11 10:19 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: chercherchopin]
emmov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 69
Loc: United States (southward)
Originally Posted By: chercherchopin
Originally Posted By: survivordan
Originally Posted By: emmov
It's for the music, for myself, and I guess...sometimes for the audience. Playing 'for the composer' seems a little egotistic, but certainly, I think about the composer while I play/before playing (that's to be expected though.)

Egotistic? How so?

I was curious about that also, because it almost seems the opposite of 'egotistic' to me.


Oh no no no I'm sorry; I worded that kind of badly. I should have been more clear, hmm let me try to explain this better:
I guess the first thoughts that popped into my head when I read "Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself?", that "playing for the composer" immediately went to the idea which meant playing for the composer as in "wow I'm so talented I'm playing for the composer, just for the composer to hear and know and appreciate how wonderfully I'm performing their piece"

And the composer, being in short, genius, whom have created such beautiful music (this is really broad/vague but understand, these were just the first reactions in my head) it would would seem aha 'egotistic' to assume that they would want to know or something you're playing their compositions solely for them.

umm I hope I'm not offending anyone with my first post since I wasn't all that clear. And sure, definitely, some people might play for the composer just as I described being big-headed (sort of), but then again the way some people play would definitely make the composer feel...good?proud?happy? Yeah this is semi-ranting and OT a bit but I hope this clears things up or at least gets across my intentions.

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#1690180 - 06/03/11 11:17 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skorpius]
chercherchopin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 550
Loc: Dystopia (but not Dystonia!)
Speaking for myself anyway, I wasn't offended by your earlier statement -- just surprised because I didn't understand what you meant. It makes sense now that you've clarified it, so thanks (even though now I'm kind of embarrassed by my answer that I play 'for the composer' ... if it sounded like I meant I pompously sit down at the piano imagining that I could 'impress' Chopin!).
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#1690191 - 06/03/11 11:38 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Orange Soda King]
chobeethaninov Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1216
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Originally Posted By: chobeethaninov
For me it's because I love music more than anything. I cannot live without music in my life. It is as much a part of me as breathing and eating. Piano just happens to be my favorite medium (but sometimes I wish I played the violin)...


Have you sung in a choir yet? smile


Actually, I do. I sing a soprano in my school's choir. smile
_________________________
Having fun being myself

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#1690237 - 06/04/11 01:47 AM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skorpius]
Skriabin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 550
Loc: li, new york
I think it is different for everyone. When I try to just emerse myself in the music thinking I'll be showing the audience my passion for the music, it ends up not coming out that way. What happens is I feel the music internally and I hear what I want to do, but I don't actually do it. It takes a great deal of practice to know your feelings about the piece and express them, but listen to yourself, and be also part of the audience as well.

In general, being a concert pianist is just not easy -- that's what I've learned from three years of being a piano/comp major.

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#1690397 - 06/04/11 12:15 PM Re: Do you play for an audience, the composer, or yourself? [Re: Skriabin]
NeilOS Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 451
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Skriabin
I think it is different for everyone. When I try to just emerse myself in the music thinking I'll be showing the audience my passion for the music, it ends up not coming out that way. What happens is I feel the music internally and I hear what I want to do, but I don't actually do it. It takes a great deal of practice to know your feelings about the piece and express them, but listen to yourself, and be also part of the audience as well.

In general, being a concert pianist is just not easy -- that's what I've learned from three years of being a piano/comp major.


A wise observation. My teacher used to refer to the three ears, the one inside the mind, the one on the stage and the one at the back of the hall.

You are right to immerse yourself in the music, but I would stop there, semantically speaking. The concept of "showing the audience your passion" takes you away from your focus on the music. If you aren't yet able to realize your intentions for the audience, you may still need work on the techniques of doing that, i.e., what do you need to do physically to create the moods you imagine? Starting with an image can help, but you still need to know how to move your fingers. The Shakespearean actor Laurence Olivier once said that he couldn't actually be Hamlet 8 times a week or it would kill him. He had to find techniques for making the audience believe he was Hamlet.

When performing, as long as you stay focused on the music and how to make it, you will draw the audience to you; your concentration is like a magnet. But once you allow the audience to draw your attention to it, the focus is lost and your presence on the stage is no longer so compelling.
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Blog: "Piano Technique Demystified" at PianoTeacherLosAngeles.com

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