Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai MP10, Yamaha CLP 470, or something else?

Hi all,

I'm looking to buy a digital piano and would like your help.

First a bit of info about myself so you get an idea of what I'm looking for. I've been playing since I was about 8 (24 now so it's been quite some time). Mainly classical but also contemporary (pop/rock/jazz/film music etc). I also was a piano teacher for a few years whilst at uni in Belgium. I've been quite spoiled with pianos; my parents got me a Yamaha U3 series when I was 10, and when I moved to England I shared a house with a pianist for 2 years who had a Steinway grand in his living room that I practiced on.

I'm now living with a my boyfriend in a first floor flat in London with a fairly steep and narrow staircase; so unfortunately there's now way to get my Yamaha up there. Also I want to be able to play at night without disturbing the neighbours. So the only option left is a digital piano.

I want something that is as close to an acoustic piano as possible. I really don't care about all the bells and bling like different voices (organ, violin etc). What I DO care about is the action; the touch and feel, and also the sound.

I've had a look around on forums etc, and tried some pianos out as well. I've read a lot of good things about the Kawai MP10 and I'll be trying it out this weekend - I had to email Kawai to find a retailer that had it on show...

I really like the idea of wooden keys on a DP - I tried the 300 series Yamaha CLPs and quite liked the higher end ones (70&80). The new 400 series are out now so I'm going to give them a try this weekend too.

Which one do you think is the closest to the real thing? Or are there any other options?
In short, my criteria are: up to about £2,000; as realistic as possible; not too big (if it has legs / a stand they need to be able to come off as the stairs have narrow bend at the end and it won't get through it). Looks are less important.

Thank you so much for your advice!
Cheers
Heleen

I have no experience with it, but from what I've read on these forums, the MP10 is the closest to a grand action you can find in a portable DP. Some say it's even a tad heavier. Don't take my words on it though.

You are definitely doing the right thing by playing the different options, as that's really the only way you're going to know for sure what's right for you! Everything will be a compromise compared to a Steinway (and indeed the U3), and all digitals in that price bracket will have bells and whistles, which you can obviously just ignore.

It sounds very like you may have to compromise on physical size because of the staircase situation. You might find that you can't actually get one of the 'furniture' Clavinova's (i.e. CLP370/470) up and in to your flat, and you don't want to be finding that out half way up the stairs! I believe they split into 2 sections for transportation, but do check this out first.

I never tried the Kawai MP10, but its action does let a lot of praise here. Since you are used to an acoustic Yamaha and already like the CLP range, you should probably also try the Yamaha CP5. Both of these stage pianos would need to be played through external amplification or headphones.

Happy hunting :-)

I think Kawai MP10 would be a good choice if you're looking for a small piano with wooden keys and realistic action. I haven't played it so I'm only speaking from my research and reading on this forum, but I can't think of another DP that has wooden keys and action like M10 - that doesn't mean they're not out there. You'd also need a set of good headphones and/or powered speakers to go with it.

I'm an early beginner currently playing aging Yamaha CVP-103. Given that I only recently started practicing again, it's hard for me to spend more money, but when I convince myself that I'm in it for a long run I plan on upgrading to Kawai MP10 myself.

Thanks all for your response; very helpful. I'll give that Yamaha CP5 a try as well and will keep you updated! :-)

No matter how much you like it not to be true, the digital piano is a different instrument from an acoustic piano. They are closely related keyboard instruments. Once you start thinking like that then the MP10 is a "real" piano. Now what you are looking for is an expressive and musical intrument, NOT "a good fake piano". Just skip the part about it being "realistic" and think "is it expressive and easy to play?"



The owners manual is on the Yamaha web site. Inside the manual are assembly instructions. The CLP is basically a portable on a stand. The stand assembles somewhat like Ikea furniture and is shipped flat.

Typically the dealers would assemble the piano then deliver it but I bet it could be assembled on site. See the user manual for the authoritative answer on how it breaks down. There are detailed drawing there.




That's true. Currently Yamaha'a best technology is in their line of stage pianos.

About wood keys. I don't think the material matters as much as the mechanical design.

You should also look at one of the Roland DPs that has(non-Alpha) PHA-III keys

Bring headphones with you to the shop. Some people really prefer Yamaha's sound. I like it. My P155 sounds like the CLP340, (same internal sound samples.) But Roland's "supernatural" is I think the best. Kawai has improved a lot. Their older "HI" sound was hard on my ears and a bit electronic. New Kawis are better. But play loud in headphones for 20 minutes of so and see if your ears can take it. For me the Roland has a listenable sound.

Getting some GOOD external seakers makes a huge difference in the sound. I mostly use headphones but I find I take them off and listen using larger external speakers to hear what it "really" sounds like. I can't get the dynamic right wout out hearing the sound in the room. real piano music needs to reverberate off the walls.

Both of those are extremely close to an acoustic. Not the same acoustic but an acoustic. Which acoustic touch you prefer is up to you.

Do you want the light to the touch action of some grand, a heavy weighed down stiff action of a full upright? The choice is yours.

MP10 plus decent speakers and a computer running various VST pianos would be the ideal situation.
You will not find a better action for feel then the MP10.

This morning I tried out quite a few DPs, both stage pianos as well as cabinet DPs. I think I'm lucky to live in London as 2 shops (Rose Morris and Chappell of Bond Street) combined had a very large selection and only 10min walk away from each other.

After playing the MP10 I think I'll go for it. It had the nicest feel to it (for me). I thought the Rolands sounded all quite artificial and the touch was - to me - much too light, and the Yamahas were too "bright" for me. I tried them all both with and without headphones. The MP10 has - to me - a very realistic touch and nice sound.

I'll also need a stand to put in on - I was thinking of the Quiklok WS550. I had already seen it online and it was recommended to me in the shop as a cheaper option than the £600 (!) Roland stand they had it on in the showroom.

I've already got a good pair of headphones, so all I need are speakers and a stool. Stool's not so much of an issue - I know what I want. The problem are the speakers. I don't want to blow £300 on some speakers as the piano will only be used in my - not so massive - living room. I don't want them to be massive as they'll need to stand behind the piano as this will give the best effect and I don't have much room. Do you have any recommendations for make/type of speakers that would be suitable?

Thanks again for your honest opinions and help!
Heleen

A £600 stand ??? Got to be a mistake there ...what's it made out of ...gold ?

It sounds like you had fun testing out the options, and well done for finding the right piano for you - I'm sure you'll be very happy with the Kawai.

I thought about getting active nearfield studio monitors to play my DP through (KRK Rokit 6's) but in the end simply didn't have the money. My solution was to keep an eye out on eBay for some bargain hi-fi kit. I used to have a seperates system with Denon amplifier and Mission bookshelf speakers that I occasionally played my old Roland stage piano through at home, and knew this setup had a good, full tone.

In the end I was lucky enough to find a nice pair of Mission 733i floorstanders for £40 and am currently borrowing a Teac amp to power them and have to say, even though with the speakers behind the piano I end up sat a bit too close to be in the sweet-spot, the sound is phenomenal. You might be lucky to find something similar along with an amp, and best of all, stick your iPod through it and your piano speakers will double up as a quality hi-fi for your living room!

Best of luck :-)

Sorry for the slightly off-topicness, but I often read that using external amplification / speakers gives better result. Is it always so ? I mean, in a middle range DP like a Kawai CA 93, I would think they put decent speakers / amplification, and maybe it is adapted to piano sound. Also the places / orientation of the speakers is important too, and using your own speakers maybe is not optimal or makes the sound seem to not come from the piano. Now the CA 93 is not the best example because of that soundboard mechanism, but I'm wondering if someone tried to replace the CA 63 or LX10 sound system with something better and noticed an improvement. Now if you go that way you would probably take the cheaper portable version and build it from there I guess.

@ Dr Popper: it was this stand: http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/digital_detail.asp?stock=10021911000513
On that website it's slightly cheaper although still a stupid price to pay IMHO but the shop I visited sell them at £600. Okay, it was very sturdy, but you can get a DP for that price!

@mrmacmusic: thanks for your advice. I'll keep an eye on eBay and Gumtree - might find something good.

I'll keep you guys updated Will probably order the MP10 the end of this month.
Cheers
Heleen

Heleen,

It sounds like you are going to be building the same workstation that I use! Here's a picture of my setup. I find the 550 stand to be pretty solid but it has a little "wobble" to it.

While the internal piano sounds of the MP10 are very good, I still use the Garritan Steinway and Ivory Steinway libraries on my computer.

Curt

Hi Helen,

thanks for sharing! I just went through a similar process - I was just looking for the most authentic sound and feel, not gazillions of features. I posted a (way too long) review of the Roland V-Piano compared to some other high-end stage pianos here in the forums yesterday. I didn't try the MP10 myself, but have heard good things about it, so our posts nicely complement each other.

If you haven't already dismissed it, check out Roland's FP-7F stage piano. It has built-in speakers, sounds that get close to the V-Piano (which I liked best) and an excellent action, like the speaker-free RD-700NX.

Maybe the listening tips I shared there will help you find your perfect piano. It's a very personal choice.

Oh, and I know what stand you mean. I bought the Roland KS-V8 and my wallet is still smoking. But a wobbly keyboard really breaks the piano experience for me, and the KS-V8 is extremely sturdy. Check out it's little brother the KS-G8, it's much cheaper but looks similar. Neither folds easily though.

If you think you might ever take that piano to play elsewhere, a stage piano with built-in speakers is a wise choice.

Cheers,

- Jan

Helen, I'm using a K&M 18953 table stand and find it to be very stable.
I believe it can be purchased online for under 100 Euros.

Cheers,
James
x

Yeah £600 or even £525 or whatever for a stand ....they must be smoking crack ! I've got a very similar Roland stand at home to that (looks almost the same but is a different colour) that I think that was about £100 retail value and even that seems like its over the odds for my thinking. Reminds me of Bentley charging £150,000 for a re badged Volkswagen and then asking another £850 for a rear view camera that costs them £30. It seems to me that some people get what they deserve rather then what they pay for I guess.

Hi all,

wow - thanks for the wonderful advice I'm getting from everyone.

Jan, re the V-piano. I haven't tried this - I did read your review and it looks good but it's too expensive for me (I just don't want to spend that much on a DP). Very thorough review though! I was impressed, especially compared to my lousy review

As for the FP-7F - I did try it but it didn't do it for me. I'm used to a Yamaha U3 with a rather heavy action. That's still my piano but can't get into my flat right now so is staying at my mum's for another few years. Hopefully we'll move somewhere bigger in a year or 4-5. To me it's important that any DP I buy has also a fairly heavy action; as it's easier to switch from heavy to light than the other way round and I still want to be able to play my Yamaha after a few years.

@ Curt: yes - it does look like I'm going for a similar set-up as you! Although my boyfriend got a bit worried when he saw the photo as he "will never get his hands on the laptop again", hehe. I'm new to using different sounds (like the Garritan Steinway and Ivory Steinway libraries you're talking about). Is there a way of playing these from a stick or the DP's internal memory? Or do you need to play it from a programme on your laptop? I'm sorry for these stupid questions - I really have no idea!

James, I might go for the K&M stand you were suggesting. The price seems okay (about £100 from a German site). How heavy is the piano you use it for? Does it move much when you play?

As for the speakers I've changed my mind. I looked at the package Denon DM38 DAB + Mission MX1 Speakers. As the Denon plays CD's and I can connect my iPhone to it, this could then just replace the ancient micro system I've got in the living room (Samsung thing which I got for my 13th Birthday present - it's even still got a cassette player!). It's more expensive than I was looking for but it seems a lot more versatile and it's got good reviews. Has anyone got any experience with this? Also - again a stupid question - what cable do I need to connect the Denon to the DP? The package I'm looking to buy includes good speaker cables to connect the Missions to the Denon but I still need to connect the Denon up to the MP10.

thanks again everyone!
(can't wait for the end of the month when I'll be ordering everything!)

Heleen

The K&M stand is very stable, and does not move when playing. I'm only using a Nord Electro (approximately 10 kg), however I doubt the stability will change with a heavier instrument such as the MP10.

With regards to cables, the MP10 has L+R 1/4" TRS outputs, and I expect the amp will use standard L+R Phono connectors, so the cable below should do the trick:



Kind regards,
James
x

Heleen,

Yes, you need a computer (and a pretty powerful one too) to play the Garritan and Ivory libraries (and the like). But the good thing about this is that with a computer always connected, you have immediate access to a recorder!! I run SONAR so whenever a cool idea is happening when just sitting at the piano and improvising, I reach up and tap the 'R' key on my PC and capture it.

I had to buy a dedicated one that you see in that photo (a dual hard drive i7 Dell XPS) for my piano. I can actually play BOTH the Garritan and the Ivory libraries at the same time for a nice blend of two Steinways. VERY impressive performance from this notebook PC!

But don't feel bad about your question! What you ask for is exactly where all of us would LOVE to see the technology of digital pianos go in the future!! How cool would it be to just load up your favorite library into any keyboard you want?? But for many reasons, we won't see this kind of functionality for a long long time (if ever!).

Curt

Of course a very good feature of the MP10 is that you can insert a UBS memory stick at the front RHS and easily record your music and save onto the USB stick. So it is simple to record your playing at any time even without a computer running.

Hi guys (is it me or are there no girls on the DP forum??)

I've ordered my MP10 yesterday night after work. They've ordered it from Kawai and will be delivered some time next week. I'm so excited!!!

Heleen

It's OT but if you consider Nord then I'm not sure that's entirely correct.

There are definitely Women on the forums. Not so much on the DP areas as that tends to attract us lads, but they're definitely about.

+1 - That paragraph pretty much sums up the Nord philosophy!

Congrats Heleen on the MP10!!! I went through a similar decision just recently, and, lacking a local Kawai distributor, I ended up with the Roland FP-7F. That said, the MP6 received such glowing reviews everywhere that I'm sure you'll absolutely adore the MP10!

I also tested some speakers, and I have settled for the USD $300 M-Audio BX5a monitors, they seem to be working really good! Have power to spare, and the experience is certainly much nicer than using the on-board speakers or any multimedia tiny speakers!

About girls not hanging around here... I believe they are hidden behind the gender-less way of using the English language ... so much so, that in a recent post a girl had to add she was one.

Welcome, and hope to read your glowing review of the MP10 very soon,
Best regards,
Rafa.

Heleen,

congratulations on your Kawai purchase. if you look at the signature blocks of the responders- you will see that many/most of them are collecting keyboards and software almost at the rate that golfers buy new drivers. so welcome to our addiction- the search for the perfect keyboard!

Ithilien, congrats on the purchase of your MP10!

Females do occasionally post on the digital piano forum, however I agree that compared to the acoustic piano forum, it's a rather different demographic - I wonder why this is?

Cheers,
James
x

Female here! I don't know why there aren't so many of us. Maybe some of us are a little intimidated by some of the geek talk (ie dsp comparisons, etc. Hello, what? I have no idea how to interpret Dewster's data but I try to read it hoping some of it will soak in.) Also, I have only one keyboard unlike many of you, AND it's a Casio besides. But I do dabble with synth modules. Does that count?

Haha, thanks everyone!

I'm not really planning on collecting keyboards/dp's/... sorry... My dream is to one day have a nice grand though, does that count?

@ piRround: thanks - I'm glad to see that I'm not the only girl here!

Collector's mentality is a male thing, viz train-spotting, twitching, stamp collecting even. As is the obsession with facts & figures and 'I've got something you don't'.....

This is in the end something that has to do with electronics / gadgets / software / hardware... That's a boys thing, more than "just" an ordinary acoustic piano or grand...

Just an update: got a phone call from the store today that the MP10 has arrived! and I only ordered it Tuesday evening... they said that Kawai was closed already so would order it first thing on Wednesday morning, and it arrived today (Thursday). That's pretty good me thinks.

It's getting delivered tomorrow and I'll be home from work all day so can't wait to play it!

Hello, I'm new one on forum.
I'm going to buy this same Kawai MP10, especially for exercising and playing classical music.
I tried Roland RD700NX but it seems to me, that Kawai has a better hammer action, closer to real piano. Sound is more clearly than Roland. No artefacts in Kawai.
I played also on Nord piano 2 but keyboard action was too light. Nord's sound is matter to discuss.
I'm curious your opinions.
Cheers

Hello,
Many would agree with you saying you can't do better than an MP10 for keyboard action, and as a high quality stage piano.

Many others prefer the Roland (SN)sound, and some the Roland PHAIII action. But they are undoubtedly two fine pianos - probably the best of their kind, along with Yamaha CP5, and that group of models.

I think, that Kawai MP10 is a good keyboard to connect with Ivory II in the future.
This is my plan.

Many forummers are using Kawai DPs and views in this forum tend to gravitate towards Kawai being better.

However, there are many other views in the internet on how yamaha CLPs are better than Kawai.

But end of the day, it is still a matter of personal preference.

Hello.

I do love acoustics, however, I too was wanting to get as close to a great acoustic as I could find - without the cost and size and weight and maintenance of an acoustic.

Likewise, I had also narrowed it down to either the Kawai MP-10 stage digital piano or the Yamaha CLP 470 spinet console.

I went with the MP-10 based on its features, and reviews as well as it portability over the CLP 470.

I bought a good sturdy stand (Yamaha LG-800). Along with being very sturdy it allows me to set the height of the top of the keys to that of a grand. It also adjusts for standing position.

In order to try to get the great digital samples out of it I then bought a used Harman Kardon AVR347 7.1 audio video receiver and one pair of used (now vintage) Polk Audio A6 bookshelf speakers. I then added a new pair of Sony SS-F7000 floor-standing 4 way passive speakers (great reproduction at a low price). Although I am sure it is not the same as a grand, the sound is quite good or great, IMO. [Thanks to others on this site who suggested that I go the HiFi route instead of some active studio monitors] As it is, I can always add more passive speakers if needed because the Harman Kardon AVR347 allows for either 5 channel stereo or 7 channel stereo.

The tactile feel of the keys is great as well as the dynamic funtion & feel of the keys.

I do love the digital samples.

The only things that I can say that I don't like about the MP-10 is that the pedals are noisy, and I wish the pedal module stucture was even heavier so that they would not move around at all. That, and the fact that one LED light is dim.

Other than the above, I am quite pleased with the Kawai MP-10.

I bought a MP10 awhile ago and like it very much. Mine has one dim led too.
I run it through nearfield monitors and it sounds great.
After playing the MP10 for a while I had the opportunity to compare it to my friends Kawai baby grand. I have not played that one for awhile.
The grands action felt a bit lighter, but what made the biggest impression was the volume of the thing with the lid fully opened... There is no way i could have that volume in my apartment.

You mean it squeaks as you play? I had this problem and just hit it with a little bicycle lubricant (because it's what I had on hand). It hasn't made noise since. Mine is very quiet now, much quieter than a typical acoustic pedal (though acoustics are so loud you might never notice the sounds).

One more thing.
I've played few times on MP10. Decay especially on forte is very static and unrealistic. Sound doesn't decay almost at all. It sound a little bit, like a electric guitar (sorry for compare).
Is it possibile to change it, on settings of instrument?

I'm sure you can. On the MP8 (its predecessor) you can adjust four length parameters associated with the various parts of the sound: attack, decay, etc.

By the way, almost all digital pianos have decays that are shorter than that of an acoustic piano. That includes the MP8 (I expanded the length of the decay significantly to get back to realistic). Do what you think is best, of course, but I would be very careful before trying to shorten a decay on a digital piano. If your goal is to mimic the behavior of an acoustic, I think you are probably going the wrong way.

Alternately, buy a very cheap piano. The cheaper, the shorter the decay. Look to casios for very short decay/sustain.

Thanks very much.
I'll try to set it next time, when I'll go to music store but I needn't shorter decay. I want to have normal, naturally decay. That setting of decay, was too much constantly, like it couldn't dissapeared.

Here's a link to the manual so you can figure out how to do it before you go down there.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&...p;usg=AFQjCNE-3htfpK4_S0LJsRQzIQZ1TU2BFA

Hello Everybody!
One week ago, I already bought nord piano 2.
I uploaded Grand Imperial XL and Grand Lady D LRG to my NP2.
I'm in love to these sounds! Absolutely amazing!

Hi! I've just bought a brand new Kawai MP10. I am using it as a quiet alternative to my acoustic Yamaha U3 as I have a wife and young kids who don't always appreciate loud practice :-) I've had it two days and am very impressed with the feel of the keyboard, I think it is like a grand piano, at least like the Yamaha C3 that I once owned. With regards to the sound, the 'acoustic' grand pianos are absolutely fantastic. I had quite low expectations on the sound as I only really wanted a keyboard with a good feel, however with the MP10 you get excellent feel and sound. Also, the 'ivory touch' keys are a nice finish reducing finger-slippage.

I do however have one, minor complaint, which is that I've noticed two of the button back-lighting LEDs are dimmer than the others (they are the SUB ON/OFF and Metronome LEDs). Obviously this doesn't affect the tone/feel of the keyboard, but it is difficult to see from a seated position that the SUB is ON/OFF (although you can certainly use you ears to work that one out!). Perhaps they are supposed to be slightly different colours? Different spec LEDs, or even just powered slightly different from the others. Erixon/WippenJackSpring (or anybody else whose keyboard has dim LEDs), just curious, on your keyboards which LEDs are dim?