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#1692508 - 06/08/11 12:40 PM Mark Sarnecki's Harmony Basics typo?
Selah411 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 27
Anybody with this book that can help me? pg 8 question #3 last chord. This is a dim maj chord, but i think they meant a dim min chord - hence a half diminished chord. did they forget to put a flat in front of the b?

thanks so much!
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#1692837 - 06/09/11 10:39 AM Re: Mark Sarnecki's Harmony Basics typo? [Re: Selah411]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3956
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I don't really understand your question because I don't have this book. There is no such thing as a "dim major" or "dim min" chord. The basic chords are major, minor, dom7, major7, diminished (triad), dim7, half-dim (m7b5).

Perhaps you could scan the page and post it for us?

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#1692985 - 06/09/11 02:48 PM Re: Mark Sarnecki's Harmony Basics typo? [Re: Selah411]
keystring Offline
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Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12122
Loc: Canada
Would writing out the letter names of the chords be enough if a scan can't be done? (Curious)

I'm thinking that a "diminished major 7" would have to be something like CEbGbB (does it exist in music?) ?? I think the "min" in "dim min" means "minor 7" which is a half diminished as the OP wrote = CEbGbBb (hence, the missing flat).

Sarneki came out with a new edition for the harmony series this spring, and I imagine they did the same for basics. They added letter notation for the first time, rather than just the Roman Numerals. New editions can have mistakes.

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#1693128 - 06/09/11 06:40 PM Re: Mark Sarnecki's Harmony Basics typo? [Re: Selah411]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3956
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
That's an interesting thought, Keystring. You certainly could have such a chord, although that sort of chord is not often expressed in classical literature because it's not one of the standard harmonic chords. I've seen such a chord in jazz, but any chord can be expressed in jazz.

Given that this is a harmony basics text, I tend to think you are on the money with your notion of the half-diminished chord C Eb Gb Bb. I think the one with the major 7th would be a bit challenging for "basic" ears!

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#1693178 - 06/09/11 08:01 PM Re: Mark Sarnecki's Harmony Basics typo? [Re: Selah411]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12122
Loc: Canada
Going beyond the question, might our hypothetical "diminished major 7" chord also be seen as a different chord if it got a different spelling and if we could assume (a) different root(s)? By different spelling I mean for example that B can be Cb, Eb and Gb could be D# and F# etc. (Just having fun here.)

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#1693185 - 06/09/11 08:19 PM Re: Mark Sarnecki's Harmony Basics typo? [Re: Selah411]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3956
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The spelling of a chord usually reflects its destination. It would sound the same of course, but if you respell the Eb to D#, it would most likely function as a leading tone to some sort of E-chord. Plus you'd have the B which is common to the E-chord and the F# which is supertonic to the E-chord. Funny how if you do flatten the B, an E-chord seems to be the least likely destination! Harmony is a marvellous thing.

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#1693186 - 06/09/11 08:20 PM Re: Mark Sarnecki's Harmony Basics typo? [Re: Selah411]
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 402
Loc: Montreal Canada
Hi Everyone,

I'm not surprised your book might have some errors in it.

I have 2 books by Mark Sarnecki and the 1st one I bought (Elementary Music Rudiments, 2nd-ed) has a few errors in it. Its a good thing I had bought another theory book and worked with it beforehand otherwise, as a complete beginner back in august 2010, I never would have spotted some of the errors and would have learned wrong. I did not check their website, maybe they have acknowledged them and issued an addendum?

As a beginner without a teacher, I rely heavily on things like textbooks & articles to learn stuff, and so I find it very disconcerting to discover errors in them. I recognize though, that we are all human, and we do make mistakes!

John
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