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#1696499 - 06/16/11 03:13 PM My new term for adult beginners!
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3227
Loc: not in Japan anymore
So, some/many of us here, like me, started piano as adults, but the title "adult beginner"  just doesn't really work for a lot us anymore. Like for myself, I've been playing for more than 10 years now. So I thought of a new title:

Adult began-er!! You know, since I began as an adult, but I'm not a beginner anymore. So, what do you think? 

I'm over-tired and under-caffeinated, so I think it's sheer brilliance . If you agree, please start using this term. laugh

(P.S. as far as I know, I just made this term up, but if you've heard it before, please let me know.)
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
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#1696506 - 06/16/11 03:26 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2076
Hi ShiroKuro,

It's an interesting question, I think. Not too long ago I was wondering about it, since I told someone I was an adult beginner and they misunderstood that to mean that I was a beginner. I've been playing for fifteen years.

My conclusion was finally that when you reach a certain level, you're not much different than many people who began as children. And, if you're as advanced as them, it becomes less important that you started as an adult. It's nothing more than a biographical fact.

Some great (food) chefs learn their trade from chef parents as children, while others start their careers later. But there's no need for a special term for the ones who begin late! Nor is there in any other profession or hobby. Why should there be in piano?

I suspect that there are various reasons for the 'childhood fetish' which surrounds the piano. It's certainly widespread. I for one don't understand it.

Maybe we should all simply be described as musicians?
_________________________
Charles Lang
Working on: A Night in Tunisia; Memories of Tomorrow (Keith Jarrett).
Just started: Brazilian Like (Michel Petrucciani)

Baldwin Model R (1974), Hardman 5'9" grand (1915), Rieger-Kloss 42.5" vertical

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#1696510 - 06/16/11 03:31 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: charleslang]
Sly Cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 103
Loc: England - via Scotland
Originally Posted By: charleslang

Maybe we should all simply be described as musicians?



Absolutely.

I may be an adult and a kinda-sorta beginner - but that's too much of a mouthful.

I'm just a mucisian/pianist. Not as good as some, better than others - but still a pianist! I'm sure society as a whole can deal with and understand the fact that there are all different degrees of musicians/pianists without the need to pigeon-hole ourselves.


Edited by Sly Cat (06/16/11 03:35 PM)
_________________________
Currently playing a Yamaha DGX 640

Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art.


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#1696511 - 06/16/11 03:32 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3227
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Quote:
Maybe we should all simply be described as musicians


Yes, of course you're right. But I like the distorted grammaticality of the word began-er...
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1696512 - 06/16/11 03:34 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
Sly Cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 103
Loc: England - via Scotland
Originally Posted By: ShiroKuro
Quote:
Maybe we should all simply be described as musicians


Yes, of course you're right. But I like the distorted grammaticality of the word began-er...


If it makes you feel good, I officially(?!) declare you an Adult Began-er! smile
_________________________
Currently playing a Yamaha DGX 640

Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art.


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#1696515 - 06/16/11 03:45 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4195
Loc: Arizona.
Something about calling myself a began-er makes me want to cut the sleeves off my flannel shirt and strum a banjo.

I think it is a clever term but I must agree with Charleslang on this one. It doesn't really matter where we started but rather where we are now and how we have progressed.

I am a gonna stick with *noodler* however as that's an ongoing thang!

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#1696518 - 06/16/11 03:51 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3227
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Mr S-H, I think you're pretty much a professional, maybe you should go with "noodlist"

(sorry, I'm having a distorted grammaticality day here...)
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1696519 - 06/16/11 03:53 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
dear pianoholicsanonimous, my name's wayne and I've been a beganner for 2yrs!

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#1696521 - 06/16/11 03:57 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2333
Loc: Virginia, USA
I think we should just rename ABF as "Friendly Piano Player Forum" and another as "Unfriendly Piano Player Forum"

... wink
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  • Bartk - Romanian Folk Dances, Sz. 56
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#1696526 - 06/16/11 04:08 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: Andy Platt]
chercherchopin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 550
Loc: Dystopia (but not Dystonia!)
Originally Posted By: Andy Platt
I think we should just rename ABF as "Friendly Piano Player Forum" and another as "Unfriendly Piano Player Forum"

... wink

I think 'began-er' is very clever.

I also think that the 'Unfriendly Piano Player Forum' isn't even at Piano World. grin
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#1696529 - 06/16/11 04:14 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: chercherchopin]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3227
Loc: not in Japan anymore
What's an unfriendly piano?

"Forum for players of unfriendly pianos" --sounds like a support group for owners of landfill pianos, maybe?
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1696530 - 06/16/11 04:18 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
BenPiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 1171
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: ShiroKuro
What's an unfriendly piano?


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#1696531 - 06/16/11 04:21 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
Andy Platt
"I think we should just rename ABF as "Friendly Piano Player Forum" and another as "Unfriendly Piano Player Forum"

ShiroKuro
"What's an unfriendly piano? "
"Forum for players of unfriendly pianos" --sounds like a support group for owners of landfill pianos, maybe?"


Hope that wasn't directed at me lol, i didn't mean to be unfriendly, was just joking smile


Edited by wayne32yrs (06/16/11 04:40 PM)

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#1696534 - 06/16/11 04:23 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17698
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
omg, BenPiano, that photo is absolutely HILARIOUS! laugh laugh
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My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1696548 - 06/16/11 04:39 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2333
Loc: Virginia, USA
Yes, my choice of words wasn't great wink

But it does allow me to add one more forum: "Red Piano Player Forum".
_________________________
  • Liszt - Liebestrume No. 3, S541
  • Bartk - Romanian Folk Dances, Sz. 56
    My Hungarian Period wink

Kawai K3

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#1696552 - 06/16/11 04:41 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 4664
Loc: Italy
oh yes, I love began-er! lol.... (though I'm still a beginner)....

And Mr. Super-Hunky can start a noodlist camp!!!!!

Ben,....DA dum...DA dum....DA dum, Da dum Da dum..... love your unfriendly piano!
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Interested in MOYD? Check out the RULES!
XVIII-XXXIII
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#1696556 - 06/16/11 04:56 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: Andy Platt]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
Originally Posted By: Andy Platt
Yes, my choice of words wasn't great wink

But it does allow me to add one more forum: "Red Piano Player Forum".



I saw this on Rozina's yt chanel(another pwf member)

UndyingAnguish (3 weeks ago)

Beautiful playing! I started playing the piano at 24 too and I love it! It's my true passion. Keep in touch.
-Clay

http://www.youtube.com/user/UndyingAnguish


wonder if I found Cayts?

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#1696564 - 06/16/11 05:06 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: wayne33yrs]
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 4664
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: wayne32yrs
Originally Posted By: Andy Platt
Yes, my choice of words wasn't great wink

But it does allow me to add one more forum: "Red Piano Player Forum".



I saw this on Rozina's yt chanel(another pwf member)

UndyingAnguish (3 weeks ago)

Beautiful playing! I started playing the piano at 24 too and I love it! It's my true passion. Keep in touch.
-Clay

http://www.youtube.com/user/UndyingAnguish


wonder if I found Cayts?

It doesn't add up...started at 24, has said he is 60, but in his profile it says 1970, which would make him 41.......hmmmmmmmmmm weird.
_________________________
Interested in MOYD? Check out the RULES!
XVIII-XXXIII
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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#1696569 - 06/16/11 05:16 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
Late Bloomers Forum
_________________________
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#1696573 - 06/16/11 05:32 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5277
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
I think began-er is funny and appropriate.

Unfortunately I had a couple of years of lessons when I was a teenager, so it doesn't quite fit.

OTOH, Joe's Late Bloomers is a perfect description. I'm going to be really good, when I'm 64. Oh, wait :\ laugh

Cathy
_________________________

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#1696591 - 06/16/11 06:01 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: casinitaly]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Originally Posted By: wayne32yrs
Originally Posted By: Andy Platt
Yes, my choice of words wasn't great wink

But it does allow me to add one more forum: "Red Piano Player Forum".



I saw this on Rozina's yt chanel(another pwf member)

UndyingAnguish (3 weeks ago)

Beautiful playing! I started playing the piano at 24 too and I love it! It's my true passion. Keep in touch.
-Clay

http://www.youtube.com/user/UndyingAnguish


wonder if I found Cayts?

It doesn't add up...started at 24, has said he is 60, but in his profile it says 1970, which would make him 41.......hmmmmmmmmmm weird.



accordong to his yt channel, he's 26yrs, started piano @ 24yrs, uploaded this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RciWa8eG4z0 2yr ago

Think I'm gonna try the Clayt piano method, after practicing the first bar 100 times, you can start to "play with" time! lol

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#1696592 - 06/16/11 06:02 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
Recaredo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 1035
Loc: Southeast of Spain
I like the actual forum's name, maybe because I'm an adult and I am begining to learn to play piano. It just describes my situation.


However I understand those who prefer other term, because they have already got a large experience playing piano. If I had been playing for a long time, I would not like to be called "beginner". It's clear.

Regards.
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#1696607 - 06/16/11 06:39 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: BenPiano]
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 397
Loc: Montreal Canada
Originally Posted By: BenPiano
Originally Posted By: ShiroKuro
What's an unfriendly piano?




Talk about unfriendly pianos - wouldn't want to be bit by one of those smile It could also represent a piano teacher having a bad day. "WHAT ? You didn't PRACTICE your assignment? " GRRRRrrrRRrrrrrr cursing

Great sense of humour, Benpiano

J


Edited by John_In_Montreal (06/16/11 06:40 PM)
_________________________
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Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.

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#1696617 - 06/16/11 06:48 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
chercherchopin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 550
Loc: Dystopia (but not Dystonia!)
That piano might be incentive to keep the cats from wanting to climb inside and strolling (or lounging) around on the strings. smile
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Offensive tag line deleted by moderators.

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#1696625 - 06/16/11 07:08 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
Opus45 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 918
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
..I must agree with Charleslang on this one. It doesn't really matter where we started but rather where we are now and how we have progressed..

I believe Shiro is referring to the special and specific challenges most all adults face after starting to learn to play the piano as an adult without appreciable piano exposure as a child. It's quite similar to other language acquisition efforts by adults with no appreciable exposure to the foreign language as a child. These challenges (and frankly, limitations) are often quickly jumped upon by people here, who are reluctant to consider or talk about such seemingly negative concepts while engaged in their own personal monumental efforts to learn to play the piano.

I dissagree with Charleslang. It DOES make a difference where we started. That is neither bad nor good. It just is. Adults with appreciable piano training as children, and who return to piano playing after years of not playing are not adult beginners (as being defined in this thread), and have many advantages over the adult with no appreciable chilhood exposure.

When I listen to the online recitals in the Adult Beginner Forum I can usually always tell when I'm listening to someone who's had lots of piano lessons as a child.

Shiro, you are on the right track. There should be a better term for piano students like you and so many others who have accomplished so much in learning to play the piano without the benefits of having learned as a child. Adult beginner doesn't quite capture the whole concept.
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#1696637 - 06/16/11 07:31 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: Opus45]
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2076
Originally Posted By: Opus45


I dissagree with Charleslang. It DOES make a difference where we started. That is neither bad nor good. It just is. Adults with appreciable piano training as children, and who return to piano playing after years of not playing are not adult beginners (as being defined in this thread), and have many advantages over the adult with no appreciable chilhood exposure.

When I listen to the online recitals in the Adult Beginner Forum I can usually always tell when I'm listening to someone who's had lots of piano lessons as a child.


If you mean that it makes a difference in terms of presenting special challenges, I agree with you and, in fact, I've argued for that point elsewhere on these forums.

But it looks like in the above passage you don't mean that. It looks like you're claiming that there is a ceiling beyond which adult beginners cannot climb. This may be true in some cases, but in other cases it is just false.

When an adult reaches a truly intermediate or even advanced level, they are just intermediate or advanced pianists, period. That was my point in my first post. If they don't, they are still adult beginners (if they don't work hard enough or don't have a good teacher, they may stay adult beginners for 20 years or their whole life).

The idea that there is a lingering 'accent' (using your language metaphor) for those who begin as adults is false, and to claim this as you do is not helpful.

There seem to be two common mistaken attitudes towards adult beginners: on the one idealist extreme, they are supposed to have no special challenges, while on the other, they are ultimately only ever going to get so far and they'll never really be good.

You appear to have pigeonholed me into the former slot -- which is inaccurate, as I've explained -- but you yourself fall into the second slot. The truth is somewhere in between.

Originally Posted By: Opus45

Shiro, you are on the right track. There should be a better term for piano students like you and so many others who have accomplished so much in learning to play the piano without the benefits of having learned as a child. Adult beginner doesn't quite capture the whole concept.


I disagree. As I said above, either you are a beginner or intermediate or advanced. The term 'adult beginner' does justice to the special challenges faced at the beginning. If an adult is not a true intermediate pianist after ten years, he or she needs to work harder or get another teacher. But if he or she is an intermediate player, then there isn't a need to accompany that information with the information that they began as adults. They are intermediate pianists, period.
_________________________
Charles Lang
Working on: A Night in Tunisia; Memories of Tomorrow (Keith Jarrett).
Just started: Brazilian Like (Michel Petrucciani)

Baldwin Model R (1974), Hardman 5'9" grand (1915), Rieger-Kloss 42.5" vertical

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#1696644 - 06/16/11 07:56 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3227
Loc: not in Japan anymore
I'm really glad that my silly idea has sparked some serious debate. (I mean that sincerely). In the ... 7 years (wow) I've been on this forum, this subject has come up a lot, and it's because it's such a complex issue/question that it keeps coming up. Unfortunately, the only thing about me that's working today is my grammaticality distortion field (having just gotten over jet lag and the first week of summer school) so I'm not to contributing anything coherent right now. But I will soon, because although this thread was inspired by silliness, it's based on some real questions.

P.S. Opus45, long time no see smile
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1696700 - 06/16/11 10:35 PM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4195
Loc: Arizona.
I think shiro has been hitting the sauce. Sake to be exact!

Benpiano, awesome pic. That piano will eat you alive if you mess with it. Just imagine what the tuner must think when crawlin' into that beast. I'd be nice to it.

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#1696761 - 06/17/11 01:03 AM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
a D ult begINNERS : D+INNERS = Dinners. mmmmm Dinners, one of the only things that may stop practice, a good dinner?
_________________________


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which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1696765 - 06/17/11 01:10 AM Re: My new term for adult beginners! [Re: ShiroKuro]
TheodorN Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1120
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
How about Adult begoners? cool
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http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

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