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#1698242 - 06/19/11 05:03 PM Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX
Dave Horne Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Clicking on my YouTube bookmark gave me links they thought I might like to view based on my previous history. I clicked on the link below and was pleasantly surprised just how warm the piano sounded - very musical. (I know my computer headphones add additional bass but the recording sounded just fine.)

The next time I'm in a music store I will most definitely give this piano an audition.

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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1698258 - 06/19/11 05:25 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3506
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for posting that, Dave. Beautiful playing by those hands. Piano sounds lovely too. I'm sure "85" wouldn't agree though... wink

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#1698262 - 06/19/11 05:28 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4335
Loc: Northern NJ
Thanks Dave, nice piece and nice playing, thanks for pointing us there! Very Chopin-like, and the NX can really do nuance.

From the blue LED it looks like he's using the Concert Grand. I don't see any reverb LED lit, but perhaps it is hidden behind the knob because it sounds to me like the somewhat lame reverb is on - reverb off sounds best to me.

When you run across one, select the Concert Grand voice, go into the piano designer and do a factory reset on that patch (Tone Edit, right arrow, Initialize) then open the lid and turn up the pedal sympathetic resonance to at least 64. Exit out of the designer and press the front panel buttons to turn off everything that has a knob (EQ, Sound Focus, Compressor, Reverb, etc.).
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The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1698279 - 06/19/11 05:58 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2320
Loc: UK
Interesting, I wondered about the sound generation and the YT comments say recorded straight to PC.

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#1699051 - 06/21/11 12:39 AM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
johnmok Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/11
Posts: 21
nice video!
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YAMAHA PSR-E423 / KORG microSTATION / Roland FP-7F

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#1699087 - 06/21/11 01:51 AM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Wow! That was a really nice sound. At first I had to wonder whether the audio was taken from the line outs and synced up with the video.

Thanks for posting, Dave.

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#1699105 - 06/21/11 02:20 AM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2608
Hey, pretty decent quality sounds, in that vid!
(Tones are clear as a bell, and, well defined.)

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#1701234 - 06/24/11 01:20 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Yeah this first appeared around last Dec. It caught my ear. I've spent some time, unsuccessfully, trying to track down this piece--Balys Dvarionas's "Waltz Impromtu". Very Chopinsque.

That DP is impressive on first play. I still think my CP5 works better for jazz trio stuff but I'm looking into trying to play the FP4-f for a lighter weight alternative to always bringing the CP5.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


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#1701261 - 06/24/11 02:17 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Ferris]
Per Baekgaard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Danmark
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Yeah this first appeared around last Dec. It caught my ear. I've spent some time, unsuccessfully, trying to track down this piece--Balys Dvarionas's "Waltz Impromtu". Very Chopinsque.


If you saw at the video on Youtube some time ago, you may have missed this link to "Balys Dvarionas - Valsas Ekspromtas.pdf":

http://www.sendspace.com/file/rw76z1

And yes, it is surely a nice piece :-)


Dave (and sorry for side-tracking), I know also from other posts that you prefer the CP5 to the RD700NX for jazz trio, even though you seem to have a generally positive attitude towards the RD700NX sounds (and maybe keys?) at least in this post :-) I am a bit on the other side of the fence; I like the CP5, but found the RD700NX a bit more believable for longer tones and sustained chords. The CP5 sounds a bit more "dated" to me (having otherwise played Yamaha for 15+ years), but obviously both are very fine instruments by my ear and it may come down to personal preferences.

Anyway, I'm just curious: Is your main reason for picking the CP5 that it is easier to make "cut through" in a live setting, as it works in a similar way to the long tradition of renowned Yamaha stage pianos? Since you play a Steinway acoustic also, I'd guessed you maybe don't have a preference for the brighter Japanese pianos?


-- Per.
_________________________
Hornung & Møller Acoustic Grand
Roland RD-700NX, Nord Electro 3, Yamaha P150, Roland JV-80

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#1701361 - 06/24/11 05:09 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Per Baekgaard]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Hi Per

Hey thanks a million for the music. I sightread through it, what a nice song. I'm still going to try and get a book of his compositions through the sheet music store. I always like learning about a new composer that's less known like Mompou for instance.

Regarding the CP5--I think I've stated quite a few times that I do like the Yamaha CP5 and CP50 better for Jazz single note lines. It has an immediacy to the response and sound that Roland doesn't have. I definitely agree though that the Roland 700NX might be better for sustained textures and ballads; especially for solo playing. As far as "cutting through", I haven't played the newest Rolands live so I have no point of reference there. I did however play the original FP4 in a store with my RCF TT08As right after I bought them and it sounded excellent. The action on the original FP4 was always a sticking point for me thus my interest in checking out the FP4-f. I did have cutting through problems with the 700GX though ( with the EV SXA 360s not the RCFs) , I returned it and got the CP300 which worked much better but was obviously a beast to schlep around.

I think Japanese acoustics generally get a bad rap for being too bright. I owned a C7E and S6 before the Steinway D. Having a good tech who knows what he/she is doing with regard to voicing the hammers makes ALL the difference in the world. Most people ( especially hotels, restaurants and even some recording studios) don't want to spend the money on basic tuning and voicing maintenance so consequently the piano falls further and further into that bright and harsh character that everyone associates Yamaha and Kawais with.

Like Chick Corea said, " One word about the continuing quality of pianos, though: after a piano is well designed and built and then delivered to its owner, without constant professional care and maintenance, the best-made pianos will soon start to sound worse and worse—as they go out of tune and out of "regulation." The moral of that almost-story is the basic principle that the competent piano technician is everything to the continuing quality of any piano. So my cheap advice is: find a great piano technician first, then have him help you choose and maintain any piano you buy".

But getting back to DPs or necessary evils as I refer to them---for me the CP5 just works in a band setting. I mostly play Jazz but also do some Rock, RnB and Funk stuff to make dough when I'm not booked with the former. Yamaha gets ragged on quite a bit and in certain areas deservedly so. But the bottom line for me is running the CP5 through my RCF speakers, in the right acoustically sound room, sounds and plays as close to an Acoustic piano substitute that I've found for my taste and style of playing.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


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#1702413 - 06/26/11 01:55 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Ferris]
Per Baekgaard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Danmark
Dave,

Thanks for your reply; good that was a good clarification.

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris

Hey thanks a million for the music. I sightread through it, what a nice song.


Indeed it is!

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris

Having a good tech who knows what he/she is doing with regard to voicing the hammers makes ALL the difference in the world.


That is a very important and often overlooked point. "My" piano tech is a close friend, and being able to discuss feel, details of voicing down to individual tones, and having changes done not just all at once but over a longer period makes a huge difference for me! It helps tremendously to get a much more satisfying instrument.

Buying a good acoustic (upright or grand) and not having it well maintained is like buying a very expensive car and never having it serviced. Tuning is like filling the car with petrol; it helps to keep it moving -- but it needs more care than just being fuelled from time to time, if you want it to last long, perform at its best and to your needs, and serve you well...

And for the individual setup: Who would get into a rental car and not ensure the seat and mirrors fits you? Some overlook the fact that their piano can and should be fitted to their liking and to the room that it is in.


-- Per.
_________________________
Hornung & Møller Acoustic Grand
Roland RD-700NX, Nord Electro 3, Yamaha P150, Roland JV-80

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#1707880 - 07/05/11 04:26 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Per Baekgaard]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
I just returned from the Sherman Oaks GC. Someone on the Korg forum mentioned they had a Kronos 61. I haven't even laid hands on one yet. They had two, both are gone. frown

I did spend some time again going back and forth between the 700NX and CP5.

On first play the Roland sounds and plays great. But after going over to the CP5 after about 10 minutes on the Roland, my feelings still remain the same. The Yamaha for Jazz playing has a more even sound. On the NX there are notes that jump out unexpectedly in the middle of a phrase. The Ab a +5 above middle C for instance. It sounds pretty wanky or phasey to me--at least in the phones. Maybe through speakers it would smooth out a bit. The NX is for sure a thicker texture which makes it more attractive for chording in Classical or more lyrical pop stylings. Still that being said, every time I go back to the CP5, I play more fluently without a doubt.

I probably need to haul my speakers in again to maybe the Pasadena GC--I need to hear the NX through something else other then phones. They have a more open floor plan that's conducive to that sort of thing. That's the only way I could tell for sure short of buying one with a return policy. I just don't want to mess with shipping back though.

Still trying to find a place in LA with an FP4-F on the floor to check out.....
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


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#1707900 - 07/05/11 04:57 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Ferris]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4335
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I did spend some time again going back and forth between the 700NX and CP5.

Dave, did you do a factory reset on the NX? It's all too easy for others to edit the piano sound and save it. I believe it goes like this:

Menu | 8. Utility | 3. Factory Reset All | Enter | Enter

Also, I'd recommend you pick the first piano "Concert Grand" (power on default), then turn off the reverb, chorus, compressor, Sound Focus, and EQ using the front panel buttons. You might also want to try different velocity settings to see if one suits your playing better.

The second piano "Studio Grand" isn't as complex (but it isn't bad either) and seems as though it may be better suited to a wider velocity range.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1707909 - 07/05/11 05:14 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
RafaPolit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Quito, Ecuador
Dave Ferris, have you tried to 'flatten' out the piano on the NX? That jumpiness may be the resonance and duplex strings... if you reduce most of them to zero, the piano is fairly 'flat' (though by no means boring!), no brittle sound to it, no jumpy notes, much more adequate (to my ears) for non-solo pieces.

I did this yesterday as a test, and, while turning off resonances and the likes I guessed would actually kill the sound, it actually turned into what probably you are referring to.

Perhaps not turning off-off but dialing down to the minimum setting will do the trick? If I can help with a recording of this, I'll be more than glad to send you one, provided you send me a midi of you playing it smile

Rafa.


Edited by RafaPolit (07/05/11 05:16 PM)
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Roland FP-7F

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#1709506 - 07/08/11 05:55 AM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Ferris]
Per Baekgaard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Danmark
Dave,

Interesting observations, thanks for sharing.

For me there is usually some sort of adaptation to a new sound that is different from what I'm familiar with. I immediately notice some parts that are nice -- but also usually some parts that stick out as being "too different" or lacking in some other respects.

It has been more difficult for me to hear what is lacking with familiar sounds. After having played my RD700NX for some weeks I have started to be much more aware of some of the less-stellar parts on my other sounds. For instance, the very short decay of the Nord AP sound is something I notice now on the very first chord I hit... I wasn't so much consciously aware of that before.

I guess this is why "calibrating" on a real grand is required from time to time :-) And you surely have a stellar reference point for doing so!

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
On the NX there are notes that jump out unexpectedly in the middle of a phrase. The Ab a +5 above middle C for instance. It sounds pretty wanky or phasey to me--at least in the phones.


I have tried to listen for this, and at first I didn't really notice it here with my setup. However, I think I hear what you're referring to. It is as if the first harmonic is slightly out of tune initially and then corrects itself back to the proper pitch. Hitting the Ab with the damper down makes it a bit easier to hear -- but you need to compare with the neighbouring tones to spot it initially.

Also, as it causes a phase shifting, it sounds as if the Ab (or at least the first harmonics) sweeps very fast from one side to the other and is not then sharply centred similarly to what the G and A are; i.e. a bit "out of phase" with itself. I venture to guess that it makes itself stick out in phones much much more than in a real room with speakers.

At first, I thought opening up the lid fully (put the lid parameter to 7 instead of 5) would help. When the lid is half-way down, I find that it sometimes makes the sound a bit more artificial to me. It did have some impact, but not much.

Secondly I looked at the tuning, as the Ab is ever so slightly sharp in the preset it is shipped with, whereas most other notes around are on the flat side. Putting it to concert pitch helped a little as well, but again not much.

I also checked whether the pedal position had any impact, but it looked not.

However, I found that if I change the "Tone Character" just a bit, to either -1 or +1 from the default 0 position, it almost completely disappears! Obviously it changes the sound a bit and may not be what you prefer. It thus follows that it must be some kind of artefact from blending different sample sets that unfortunately becomes audible!


If it had been a Nord, Clavia would have said it was intended and probably "this is the way a real piano sounds" and they are possibly right. Even if my grand is well maintained, there are larger differences on that than on my RD700NX.

But nevertheless I think that with a partially synthetized sound, it shouldn't be there.

There are other quirks also on the RD700NX tones and some weird buzzing I find more objectionable than the Ab -- but as mentioned earlier, for AP I still dropped down on the side of the RD700NX in favour of the CP5, the latter to me being ever so slightly more on the "too clean" side.

YMMV -- I'm sure I could live with either after a suitable adjustment time. I just found the RD700NX maybe being a better compliment to my Electro 3.


Good luck with your hunting down an FP4-F. Will be interesting to hear if it has the exact same issue or not :-)


-- Per.
_________________________
Hornung & Møller Acoustic Grand
Roland RD-700NX, Nord Electro 3, Yamaha P150, Roland JV-80

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#1709563 - 07/08/11 09:34 AM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Per Baekgaard]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4335
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Per Baekgaard
However, I found that if I change the "Tone Character" just a bit, to either -1 or +1 from the default 0 position, it almost completely disappears! Obviously it changes the sound a bit and may not be what you prefer. It thus follows that it must be some kind of artefact from blending different sample sets that unfortunately becomes audible!

For those who don't own an NX, the "Tone Character" adjustment in the piano designer changes the basic sound from dark to bright, but is oddly somehow more complex than that. I'd pay money to know what it's really doing.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1709840 - 07/08/11 04:47 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: dewster]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Just played the 300NX, FP4-F and again the 700NX.

Are the 300NX and FP4-F supposed to have the same action ? It was with phones but the 300 felt a little more solid or substantial then the 4-F. The main Concert Grand sound on the 300 wasn't as "in your face" as the 700. I kinda dug the 300, in some ways more then the 700 and I think for sure over the 4-F.

When you get on the 700 it's a BIG difference with the action and sound....maybe they're using better D/A converters but the sound seems more hi-fi.

Man those speakers in the 4-F are not flattering at all. I don't know if I want to bring my speakers into this place. It's the Sam Ash in Hollyweird. I'd have to unload on Sunset, which is a bit dicey, and then schlep up a flight of stairs to the second floor . A major pia hassle. Would be curious to hear the 300 and 4-F through speakers though. Such a different sound then the CP5. I'm enjoying that it's not as thin sounding and has more body or richness to the sound.

It's a tough call---4 different DPs in the Roland line.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


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#1713296 - 07/14/11 02:12 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Ferris]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
On the (700 ) NX there are notes that jump out unexpectedly in the middle of a phrase. The Ab a +5 above middle C for instance. It sounds pretty wanky or phasey to me--at least in the phones. Maybe through speakers it would smooth out a bit. The NX is for sure a thicker texture which makes it more attractive for chording in Classical or more lyrical pop stylings.

I probably need to haul my speakers in again to maybe the Pasadena GC--I need to hear the NX through something else other then phones. They have a more open floor plan that's conducive to that sort of thing.


I ended up doing the schlep into GC with my speakers yesterday to check out the 300 and 700NX.

I started on the 300 and it was ok, I wasn't as thrilled with it as I was the other day at SA with the phones. I had just come from trying out the new Nord E3 HP and honestly I preferred the Nord I think, in spite of the 73 key scale. I don't know if it's the new "long release" feature or the newer Bosie sample, or a combination of both, but it did have that more alive feel to it, where the 300 just felt like another entry level DP.

I took the 300 off the keyboard stand and replaced it with the 700. Wow, BIG difference ! For one thing, those wanky notes that I was hearing through the phones had all but gone away with the speakers. All the weird overtones just kind of blended into each other very nicely.

I think for solo playing the 700NX would be tough to beat. The sound is very rich and thick with a lot of balls. Basically through my RCFs the thing sounded like the "voice of God"... laugh Aside from the upgraded action you add in the fact of the extra "Studio Pianos", there's no comparison between the two.

However like I've mentioned, I don't need another 55 lb DP to haul around. I'm re-considering the NP88 or even more seriously the E3 HP.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


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#1713318 - 07/14/11 03:14 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Ferris]
Per Baekgaard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Danmark
Dave, your findings interestingly echoes mine. I didn't want to comment too much on the RD300 before you had it tested out with your own setup, but I also have found the RD700NX somewhat more of a joy to play than the RD300, which I was not completely satisfied with (neither sound nor action). I wasn't too impressed with the FP7F either, finding the repetition a bit on the slow side compared to the RD700NX, but YMMV.

On the Nord, I'm biased, since I've been playing an Electro 3 for a couple of years. The pianos have definitely gone from "passable" to "very usable" -- I find the Boesendorfer to be my preference for anything where the piano is exposed, but might "back off" to a C7 sound without sympathetic resonance, when playing more punchy or staccato chords in a thicker band setting. All this said in the context of bringing the NE3 alone and not the RD700NX, of course.

Anyway, when I upgraded my Yamaha P150, I was first looking hard at the NP88 (which does NOT have the long release and may never get it). But since I already have the NE3, I decided to invest in something with a different sound from the Nord, to complement it -- even though I found the NP88 a joy to play. I also tested the NE3HP, which is an exceptionally light (compromise) keyboard. For piano playing, it is obviously better than the NE3 non-HP, and has the long release, but as I was looking for a really good piano action, I "stepped up" in weight and didn't want to compromise too much on the action this time.

I still find the NE3 non-HP (with its lack of long release) a bit "harpsichordy", but the Boesendorfer isn't as bad as some, and I've heard the Bright Piano isn't either. I usually don't notice it when I play the board, unless I start thinking about it or just came from the RD700NX :-) I'm sure the NE3HP is even better, and if I didn't have the NE3, I might initially have ended up with a NE3HP instead, as my lightweight board. I like the action of the NP88 better than the NE3HP, though.


Incidently, the PA and monitor system I often play is also an RCF one... and I like the fullness of it. I also did a couple of gospel-style tunes last week on it, and also in that setting, the RD700NX had a nice punch and really fitted well.


-- Per.
_________________________
Hornung & Møller Acoustic Grand
Roland RD-700NX, Nord Electro 3, Yamaha P150, Roland JV-80

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#1713469 - 07/14/11 07:07 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Per Baekgaard]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Per Baekgaard
.I still find the NE3 non-HP (with its lack of long release) a bit "harpsichordy", but the Boesendorfer isn't as bad as some, and I've heard the Bright Piano isn't either. I usually don't notice it when I play the board, unless I start thinking about it or just came from the RD700NX :-) I'm sure the NE3HP is even better, and if I didn't have the NE3, I might initially have ended up with a NE3HP instead, as my lightweight board. I like the action of the NP88 better than the NE3HP, though.
-- Per.


Hi Per-

Yeah I totally understand your thinking regarding the NP, E3 and the new HP. You already have probably the best action (arguably) available in a (somewhat) portable stage piano--the 700NX. Getting the NP or HP would be a definite step down.

For me after a ridiculous schlep last Sat. night with the CP5---I had to carry it up a very long, steep set of stairs (no elevator) in this 1920ish, refurbished hotel in downtown LA then continue on to the ballroom down the hall-- I'm re-evaluating my commitment to the CP5 as my only "gigging keyboard".

Luckily I'm in excellent shape but after the whole ordeal of getting the CP5 up these stairs along with my fairly heavy dolly, a pair speakers, chord/ music bags and keyboard/mic/music stands....well you get the picture. The Nord Piano or E3 HP looked pretty darn good !

Regarding the HP vs the NP action---it's been about 7 months since I was using the NP on a regular basis before I sent it back to Nord.
My memory of the NP action and how it compared with the HP is a little fuzzy. I do recall the harpsichordy sound of the Grand Lady D and Studio Grand 2 through my RCF TT08As very well though. I'm assuming this was the Bosie sample I played yesterday on the HP, not sure what the other one was. One was dark and one was brighter. Neither one exhibited the harpsichord thing which was a very nice surprise..

So like I said, I can't say if it's the sample or the "long release" feature. I would actually prefer the NP and its 88 key scale to the HP. The weight at 39 lbs. is fine, even though the HP is amazingly light at 24 lbs or what ever, I don't need it that light. Also I've totally lost any interest in the word *organ*, so that being a big part of the E3, is a non-issue with me.

I would really like to play the NP with this new Yamaha Bright sample that seems to be getting rave review and see how that works. I have a feeling there's a very good chance I'll be getting another NP here sooner then later.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


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#1713696 - 07/15/11 07:30 AM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Dave, I find the Nord Bright Grand lacking in tonal purity in the low notes (they only sampled a 6'3" piano for this voice I believe). But most annoyingly I find at low velocities the Bright Grand, and also the Grand Lady D, have the character of a compressed piano, ie, they are too loud and brash at low velocities...their response to velocity is not linear in my opinion. The Studio Grand 2 is by far the best in this respect and the Bosendorfer is good also.

The deficiencies I describe in the Bright Grand may of course work very well in a live setting, especially when playing with others when you need the piano to punch through even when played relatively quietly. Perhaps the clue is in the title; Bright Grand! But it's not my cup of tea.

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1713840 - 07/15/11 12:27 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: EssBrace]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
But most annoyingly I find at low velocities the Bright Grand, and also the Grand Lady D, have the character of a compressed piano, ie, they are too loud and brash at low velocities...their response to velocity is not linear in my opinion. The Studio Grand 2 is by far the best in this respect and the Bosendorfer is good also.

The deficiencies I describe in the Bright Grand may of course work very well in a live setting, especially when playing with others when you need the piano to punch through even when played relatively quietly. Perhaps the clue is in the title; Bright Grand! But it's not my cup of tea.

Cheers,

Steve


Steve- i'm curious- some people have complained the velocity curve on the Nord (mainly the Stage 2 but it could apply to the NP88?..)is too aggessive or fast. have you or could you use your N3 as a controller for the NP to see if a slower velocity curve really changes the way the samples sound? I'm really interested in the NP88 but i didn't like the fact you can only make the VC lighter or faster than the default. i tend to have a heavier touch but want a softer sound- so that adjustment would be crucial for me to enjoy a DP.

thanks!
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1713893 - 07/15/11 01:26 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
On the NP88 it's certainly true that the touch curve can only be made to simulate a lighter touch, not a heavier one. If there was an option to make the touch response one step heavier I would probably use it.

I try to remind myself that the NP is made, in my opinion, primarily for performers/gigging musicians etc and the fact that it doesn't tend to play REALLY quietly is unlikely to be an issue for many users, probably most users. Not all Nord voices are characterised by excessive loudness at low velocities but in my opinion the Bright Grand is brash and in-your-face at low velocities. I get that it is supposed to be bright, hence the name, but I'm talking about volume as much as character.

I've got a Yamaha CP33 here too so if I get time over the weekend I'll hook it up to the NP and see how it goes with the velocity curve of the Yamaha driving the NP's voices.

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1713968 - 07/15/11 03:03 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: EssBrace]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
On the NP88 it's certainly true that the touch curve can only be made to simulate a lighter touch, not a heavier one. If there was an option to make the touch response one step heavier I would probably use it.

I try to remind myself that the NP is made, in my opinion, primarily for performers/gigging musicians etc and the fact that it doesn't tend to play REALLY quietly is unlikely to be an issue for many users, probably most users. Not all Nord voices are characterised by excessive loudness at low velocities but in my opinion the Bright Grand is brash and in-your-face at low velocities. I get that it is supposed to be bright, hence the name, but I'm talking about volume as much as character.

I've got a Yamaha CP33 here too so if I get time over the weekend I'll hook it up to the NP and see how it goes with the velocity curve of the Yamaha driving the NP's voices.

Cheers,

Steve


but if your sole purpose in acquiring it (NP88) was to use it to record relaxing, laid back jazz/pop piano solo arrangements- it sounds like it might not be the best choice. i'm working with my v-piano to try to create such a sound/voice and am not sure i will ever get there, and i'm not ready to blame my playing (yet....)

if you do try it with the CP33 and its a revelation- i'd appreciate it if you posted

thanks again!

thanks!
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1713988 - 07/15/11 03:22 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: EssBrace]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Dave, I find the Nord Bright Grand lacking in tonal purity in the low notes (they only sampled a 6'3" piano for this voice I believe). But most annoyingly I find at low velocities the Bright Grand, and also the Grand Lady D, have the character of a compressed piano, ie, they are too loud and brash at low velocities...their response to velocity is not linear in my opinion. The Studio Grand 2 is by far the best in this respect and the Bosendorfer is good also.

The deficiencies I describe in the Bright Grand may of course work very well in a live setting, especially when playing with others when you need the piano to punch through even when played relatively quietly. Perhaps the clue is in the title; Bright Grand! But it's not my cup of tea.

Cheers,

Steve


Hey Steve---I'm glad to see you back. Sorry to hear you're not thrilled with the new Bright Grand sample on the NP. I haven't heard it (at least I don't think I have) , so I can't comment.

However my main concern with that as well as the Bosie sample is---do they they still have that "harpsichordy" , "stringy" sound to them ? Comparable to the Grand Lady D and to a lesser extent, the Studio Grand 2. That was my main impetus for returning the NP88 in the first place. That sound through my speakers drove me mad !

Like I've mentioned a few times now here and another thread, the E3 HP did not exhibit that "stringy" quality on either of the two piano samples I tried the other day. I'm guessing one was the Bosie, the other I don't know. I'm guessing it wasn't the BG though since it's brand new. I'm trying to find out if the new "long release' feature on the HP has anything to do with the better sound, or the new samples, or a combination of both. cool smile

I'm actually still fine with my CP5 has an acoustic piano substitute on gigs. But to reiterate, I need another DP that is lightweight for schleps like last Sat. night. cry

ot--bdb/Bruce, check your PMs (that little red flag that's flashing at the top of the page). I sent you something regarding pricing on the Nord Piano.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


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#1714003 - 07/15/11 03:46 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Ferris]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Dave, I find the Nord Bright Grand lacking in tonal purity in the low notes (they only sampled a 6'3" piano for this voice I believe). But most annoyingly I find at low velocities the Bright Grand, and also the Grand Lady D, have the character of a compressed piano, ie, they are too loud and brash at low velocities...their response to velocity is not linear in my opinion. The Studio Grand 2 is by far the best in this respect and the Bosendorfer is good also.

The deficiencies I describe in the Bright Grand may of course work very well in a live setting, especially when playing with others when you need the piano to punch through even when played relatively quietly. Perhaps the clue is in the title; Bright Grand! But it's not my cup of tea.

Cheers,

Steve


Hey Steve---I'm glad to see you back. Sorry to hear you're not thrilled with the new Bright Grand sample on the NP. I haven't heard it (at least I don't think I have) , so I can't comment.

However my main concern with that as well as the Bosie sample is---do they they still have that "harpsichordy" , "stringy" sound to them, like the Grand Lady D and to a lesser extent, the Studio Grand 2. That was my main impetus for returning the NP88 in the first place. That sound through my speakers drove me mad !

Like I've mentioned a few times now here and another thread, the E3 HP did not exhibit that "stringy" quality on either of the two piano samples I tried the other day. I'm guessing one was the Bosie, the other I don't know. I'm guessing it wasn't the BG though since it's brand new. I'm trying to find out if the new "long release' feature on the HP has anything to do with the better sound, or the new samples, or a combination of both. cool smile

I'm actually still fine with my CP5 has an acoustic piano substitute on gigs. But to reiterate, I need another DP that is lightweight for schleps like last Sat. night. cry

ot--bdb/Bruce, check your PMs (that little red flag that's flashing at the top of the page). I sent you something regarding pricing on the Nord Piano.


thanks Dave- i'll look for it. i sure would like to play one of these things before i buy one however. can you believe there isn't one to be seen anywhere in a city of 5MM people?..... i may have to tool up to Nashville to try one out.


Edited by bfb (07/15/11 04:01 PM)
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1714063 - 07/15/11 04:59 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Come on Dave, just get the NP88, and call it a day. smile You know what to expect with it. The Bright Grand Yamaha S4 is a KILLER sounding piano live, and as you know I play more to your style of playing than not...albeit not to your level...yet! wink I think it would work nicely for you.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1715321 - 07/17/11 10:01 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Roland just released the Jupiter 80. Played it at GC today. They have applied the SN moniker to all of the acoustic instruments on the Jupiter. SN pianos and EPs are there too. Semi weighted synth keys.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1715350 - 07/17/11 10:40 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Dave Horne]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8854
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Time to trade-in the Kronos/Virus/V-Synth/Shigeru...

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1715367 - 07/17/11 11:13 PM Re: Super Natural Piano on Roland RD-700NX [Re: Hideki Matsui]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4335
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Roland just released the Jupiter 80. Played it at GC today. They have applied the SN moniker to all of the acoustic instruments on the Jupiter. SN pianos and EPs are there too. Semi weighted synth keys.

Googled it. Wow, if people here think I'm critical of DPs, they ought to read the comments of those synth guys - incredibly brutal.

[EDIT] Which, after thinking about it for a bit, is rather ironic. They seem to be angry at Roland for not being sufficiently retro. At this point I'm resigned to never really understanding this industry.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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