Yep, you're right James, I was just choosing my words carefully......lol

Regrettably, I've had many a discussion with audiophools who insist there is a reduction in fidelity between those two formats which has led me to choose my words more carefully.

thanks much for clarifying! (you too Kawai J)

So I've been using the new Bright Grand S4, and live it works beautifully. Roll off the highs a bit and it's still cutting through like no other. Plus, it appears to be the most even all the way across the register. Yamaha C7 Studio Grand 2 and new Yamaha S4 Bright Grand are by far the best sounding pianos in the Nord Piano Library, and maybe inside a DP!

I wouldn't describe them as weird. Beautiful and incredibly resonant would be more like it.

Here are three samples I just recorded a month ago:

I Will Give Thanks


Mychal

Hi All

Some more fun with the Nord Stage 2 - here is another video demoing my favorite Electric piano, B3 and also piano patches from the NS2.

More of a cool jazz theme this time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efnCdrXjmCA

Just an fyi - later this week I will be doing comparison of the same sounds with the Kronos 88.

Cheers

The Bosie sounds wonderful Mychal. Nice recording quality on both the vocals and vid too. How did you get the piano to not bleed into the vocal mics ? What are you using for mics on the Bosie ? Is that a stereo bar you have the piano mics on ?

A real good looking and sounding production overall. ...oh and a very nice tune too.



Ditto for you Jeff. The piano on your NS2 sounds excellent ! Looking forward to your recording with the Kronos.

Thanks for all the kind words Dave! I seriously appreciate that. I read your post to Theresa too, and she said to thank you too.




Ha! Everything bled into everything. It was pretty funny during mixing. There is so much piano in my vocal mic that I couldn't ever turn it down, because it would affect the overall piano volume too much. There was quite a bit of bass in my vocal mic too, from the monitors we were using in the room. And our vocals are definitely in those condensers on the piano.

They are a pair of Shure KSM9s. They are not really made for piano - mostly considered a vocal mic I think. But since we use the dynamics for vocals now, it freed up our KSM9s, and they do a pretty nice job. I'm just using them as a spaced pair. They are on two separate stands, fairly close to the strings up towards the front of the piano. I pointed them away from each other a little, towards the bass and the treble.

What do you use to mic your piano? Do you record it with the lid all the way up?

Mychal

Excellent! Is the organ sound from the MOTIF or NS2? Are you using the MOTIF synth keys to trigger the NS2 organ?

I use a pair of DPA 4011 SDCs. They're pretty much industry standards, I love 'em. Yeah I record the D on full stick. I've experimented with mic placing and I actually like the mics fairly close to the hammers, at least these mics.

I just sold my vocal mic but I was messing around doing piano/vocal live to two track with a Soundelux E49. I used to place some acoustic panels up behind the music desk as to give me a little separation between vocal and piano. It worked great but would definitely look weird on a music video , also there were no other instruments playing.

Ah, KSM9s, interesting. Yeah those are basically the equivalent of my Neumann KMS-105--more a high end stage condenser vocal mic. In any case the piano sounds real rich and full of body. You must have good pres and converters.

Is that the Bosendorfer 200 CS ?

Nice, thanks for sharing

Which EP in the Nord are you playing and (roughly) what settings/effects did you apply? Sounds like "EPiano 2 MkI Suitcase, Close Ideal" I guess, with some Chorus or thereabout? That is also my current favourite.

Is the AP the new Bright Grand?


-- Per.

Wow. I just checked the price on those - you have $4000 worth of piano mics there! They must sound great to make that kind of investment. And I thought my RE20 was spendy - you're in a whole different league! : )





Yeah, that was the thing. We compromised all over the place - no headphones, vocals and bass live in the room through monitor speakers, everything spilling into all the microphones - it was a mess, and it was fun! Sometimes when I was mixing I would start laughing, like when I soloed my vocal mic during an instrumental part, and I had a nice balanced sound of piano and bass cooking in that mic. And all that piano sound in my vocal mic is coming in the back end of the mic - but it's not a bad sound, it's just not exactly textbook on how to record a piano. But hey, it's music, and maybe all those sounds swapping around in the different mics helps the ambience or something. At least I can tell myself that.

The piano is actually a 214 CS. The 200 is 6'7", and the 214 is 7'. Man, you have a 9' Steinway concert grand! Very nice! I've played a 9' Steinway, and they're gorgeous. I was just listening to some of your recordings, and you get a great recorded sound. No wonder, with a 9' Steinway and $4k worth of recording mics. You sound great too - really nice touch and cool ideas.

Mychal

Wow, even better ! Incredible piano...

Yeah I didn't pay that for the DPAs but I could get a Kronos 88 for what I paid for them. They're worth it though.

I have good AD conversion, and my mic preamps are pretty middle of the road.

I have to ask this because I keep thinking about it. How did you happen to buy a Steinway concert grand piano? I sent my wife a link to the Steinway website showing what you had, and she said something about the piano having more than one stick to hold up the lid. Is that true?

Seriously, did you already tell how you came to have that piano? Is there a thread somewhere? I know you have good gigging keyboards, and you can't take that thing. Is the piano your main axe? Why did you make such a heavy investment in one keyboard?

Mychal

Mychal

Yeah definitely a once in a lifetime deal on something I thought I would never own in my lifetime. Literally a brand new D that sat in a school's music room under lock and key and played only a handful of times in 8 months. It was hand picked by another "Jazz pianist" at Steinway Hall from a selection of about 6 I was told.

The owner had lent it to the community college so it could be used for "special artist concerts". However he fell upon hard financial times and needed to sell it. I hate to take advantage of someone else's misfortune but if it wasn't me, representatives of the Kanas City Symphony were coming up with cashier's check in hand that evening to get it. I had a whole three hours to make up my mind on it. He had held it for me for a few days while I made the trip to the middle of Iowa from LA to check it out and decide.

I took a leap of faith on it even though I wasn't totally knocked out with the initial playing. I was able to sell my 10 yr. old Yamaha S6 to cover half the purchase price. I'm guessing my total purchase price for the D might even be less then what you spent on your 214 CS.

Yes the piano is my main ax. All of these keyboards are, like my sig says, "gigging tools".

The level of music I make in my studio on that piano everyday far exceeds anything I'm currently doing live or commercially.

Oh and it's one stick that props up the lid. Maybe it's that huge Fazioli she's thinking of. Most of the time I play with the lid down though...

How cool! It's like a love story. I probably get too goofy about these kinds of things, but that is so cool how that came about.

Where was it in Iowa? I was thinking it might have been at Drake in Des Moines, but you said it was at a community college. The cats from the Kansas City Symphony were on their way to grab your piano! That would have been a pressure situation for sure, but I bet you're glad you made the leap.

Has the piano changed since you've had it? That was a long trip it had to make to get to your house. About the extra sticks - I misunderstood my wife. What she meant to say was that the lid is so big, that there are wooden supports on the underside of the lid to give it more strength. I bet that lid is heavy! You know what's weird - maybe you've noticed this. I've played a lot of cheap, bad pianos. I bet you've never had to play a bad piano : ) Anyway, a lot of times the lid on a short cheap grand seems heavier to me than the lid on larger, well made pianos. Probably something to do with the quality of the wood.

I'm guessing your piano is black, if the Kansas City orchestra was interested in it, and it was used for concerts. I like black best, but Bosendorfer has some really wild and ornate ones for people who are into that kind of thing.

Have you recorded much music on it? Any solo stuff that might be available to buy?

Great story - thanks for telling it.

Mychal


PS I actually owned a 9 foot grand for a few years. It was an unusual instrument - a Weber. This was in the 90s, and apparently Young Chang built the piano, and Weber put their name on it. It was good sounding, but nothing like what you've got. But what I really loved about it was the action. Since it was a 9 foot piano, Young Chang got serious about it and put a Renner action in it. That's when I found out about Renner actions, which I also have in the Bosendorfer we've got now.

Sorry for the extended hijack here but I wanted to get back to Mychal on this. It had slipped my mind with gigs and all.



It was Creston, Iowa at the Creston Community College. It was about 90 minutes from Omaha. It was in a very nice, new music room. The acoustics were accurate too. My first impressions were that the piano wasn't "broken in", it felt stiff. Which was the case since it was purchased from Steinway Hall in NYC in July of '05 and I was playing it the end of March '06. But the price being what it was and it basically being a brand new Steinway D, like I said I took a leap of faith on it.



Dramatically ! Although it took almost 3 years for me to be happy with it. I took delivery on May 6 of '06, so I've had it now 5 years. The first few years were very frustrating as I was coming coming from two pianos (Yamaha C7 & S6 ) that were close to perfect in regard to the evenness of the action and the sound being uniform up and down in all registers. It took my ears awhile to really adjust to the "Steinway sound" for one thing. But it was basically being patient and just playing the thing in. I did spend, aside from the 4 tunings a year, around $700 for action regulation by Ed Whiting. He did an a great job. And probably another $4-500 on some voicing to try and bring out the upper treble registers a bit more. But like my tech Alan Cate, a Steinway expert, kept saying---just be patient with it. These pianos are way different then the Japanese pianos you're used to. It just takes time for the hammers to naturally groove and the tone to "come in". It's just really hard being patient after you just spent all that money and you're not knocked out with it.

But after about 2.5-3 years it just started to magically open up or blossom. It was quite amazing the transformation. And now the thing just sings, it's quite inspiring.
I've done sessions at high end studio and sound stages around town with different Ds. I've played numerous new and rebuilt ones in addition to some A&R Ds on gigs. I can honestly say I wouldn't trade ANY piano I've played in the last 5 years for mine right now. Everyday I go out here to practice I pinch myself and say to myself how lucky I am to have a piano of this quality and a space to put it in.



I'm not doing much studio recording these days, not really in the mood. I have more fun just using my Sony PCM-D50 on a gig and recording the trio live. But before my lethargic state set in I casually recorded it a few times with just my Mackie mixer. And then I briefly owned a Cranesong Spider which "Whisper not" is done with on the my space page. Then I finally settled on the Soundcraft Delta 200 Console (modded by Jim Williams at Audio Upgrades) which "Falling Grace " is done with, also on the My Space page.

I had a few of my Quartet and Trio CDs up on CD baby for the longest time. After they sold out I didn't send them anymore because I thought they were taking too much of a cut. So in typical Jazz player/ non-business fashion--I just sell 'em at gigs or if someone requests one.

But thanks for asking. Also enjoy your piano, it's a beauty.

Pardon me while I hijack a little longer, though I will say real quick, I've been using the S4 Bright Grand a lot, and man it sounds really good. It's the best overall piano in the Nord Piano Library.

Dave, I enjoyed reading how you got your D and the time you've spent letting her 'settle in'. Since I began playing piano 7 1/2 years ago (from a 15 year career racing motorcycles!) as cliche as it sounds, I've had a love affair with pianos, and yet I've never had one. There is something that excites me at the core when I see grand pianos, especially a quality piano like a D/RX series/C series/etc. There's a magic to them. I look forward to the day I can tell a similar story to yours when I get my first real acoustic grand.

I've decided to go back to school for piano performance/composition and I've finally got the wife to agree to the purchase of at least an AvantGrand N1. I've spent considerable time on it and it blows my mind every time I play it. For ~$8,000 it's appears to be a much better value overall than the N2. I think I'd rather spend an extra couple thousand and go with the N3 as a next step up in the AvantGrand series. The N1 will be grand piano for a while, at least until we have the space, no neighbors to bother, and more importantly the money to get a quality grand.

I can remember certain pianos I've played. Some even many years ago that I only played once. I remember a 9' Steinway in a music store concert hall, and that piano was just beautiful. I remember playing an Imperial Bosendorfer backstage somewhere way up in Washington in a little town close to the ocean. There was a gorgeous Imperial backstage in their concert hall, and I played it for hours. That was the first time I'd seen the extra keys. i didn't get to play it during the actual gig though - I think I was playing a Rhodes.

Dave, I can't remember if I said this already, but when Theresa and I played the Bosendorfer for the first time at a store in Orange County, we bought it right then and there. I remember standing out in the parking lot with her for a few minutes to talk about it, and being amazed that we were both saying let's go for it.

I didn't have the same kind of breakin issues that you did. I've heard before that Steinways can take awhile before they really start to sing. That's awesome that after two and a half years, your piano blossomed. The biggest new piano thing I had going on was the strings stretched like mad the first few months, so I was tuning it a lot.




That would be a big change from your Yamaha grands. I've been playing a good C7 for several years at one of the churches I play at. Nice piano, and it speaks clear and somewhat bright all up and down the keyboard. It's a different animal from a Steinway in terms of both action and sound.

Mychal

Mychal,

I enjoyed you and your wife's music and your story on the Bosnedorfer. What a blessing to be able to try out a Bosie, then a few minutes later say, 'we'll take it!'. I look forward to similar times with my wife.

Thanks Zachary. Buying that piano was a once in a lifetime kind of thing. We don't normally spend money that way. That's why it was so intense. But it's not like a car - you drive it off the lot and it instantly depreciates. It is still worth in the general area of what we paid for it 6 years ago, even in this super hard financial situation so many people are in.

Our tuner was here yesterday, and he likes to hang around afterwards and hear me play the piano a little and talk about how it was made and how it sounds. He said something similar to what Dave was saying about his piano - over the last several years things have become more seated in the piano, or more set. He said playing it over the first few years kind of brings everything together, so our piano does sound and play better now than it did when we first bought it, similar to Dave's Steinway.

By the way, I do have several nice electronic keyboards too, but I'm finding myself really interested in the acoustic again. It's great to not worry about changing patches, volume levels, etc, and just play. The piano is like a big unlimited orchestra with a great attack. They are so sensitive to touch, and they create their own constantly changing sounds with all the real vibrations and harmonics swirling around.

There is very little reverb added to the piano in our live videos. All that sustain is coming from the piano.

Mychal

Found this from a fellow over on the Nord forum. A good sound with the 'Bright Grand" blowing over one of his originals (I'm assuming).

The second tune, "Untitled tango". Blowing starts around 2:30 till around 5:00.
http://synthreviews.blogspot.com/p/my-music_17.html

That's a good representation of how the Bright Grand works. Do you think that'd be usable for you? If I'm having a hard time cutting through, especially for some of the Rock/Country stuff I'll do back up keyboard work for, I go right to the Bright Grand. It even works well in a jazz setting for getting out front.