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#1700813 - 06/23/11 08:57 PM Beginner's Dilemma
Ruxe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Atlanta
I will try to make this short and concise.

Started piano this summer, and really love it!

I go back to college in the fall, there are a few pianos located on the other side of campus on which i will be living(15 minute bike each way).

Only 5 pianos, so sometimes none are available.

In order to guarantee regular practice the only alternative seems to be to invest in a digital piano. Here is where you the reader comes in:

- Will a digital piano inhibit the development of piano skills.

- If not, what is the price range i would be looking at for said digital piano

- Keep in mind i am a student(poor), So nothing too fancy. just good enough to allow proper development and some room for growth.

- Some examples of digital pianos that you like and that meet the above requirements.

I could not decide whether to post this here or in the digital piano section( deals with digital pianos, but it seems like a problem an adult beginner would be likely to face -haha!). If you think it should be moved just let me know and i will relocate it. Thanks :p!

TLDR: reasonably priced beginner digital pianos that will not prevent the development of important piano skills!

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#1700823 - 06/23/11 09:15 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1174
I recommend the Casio Privia!

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-PX-120-Privi...nDateDescending

I call it the best digital for the price.

It is around $450-$500, and a great investment. You definitely don't want to be limited in your practice due to a lack of availability of a piano.

..and NO, it will not inhibit your piano skills. It is sufficiently weighted to mimic the hammer action of a "real" piano. My only caveat to this statement is supplement both playing and practice on a real acoustic, if and only if, your long term goal is to perform on an acoustic.

Personally, I was "burned" recently by this. I practiced arduously on a digital for a recent recital with the intent to perform on the acoustic. I was in for a rude awakening. My skills on the digital didn't transfer to my Yamaha acoustic, which has a more difficult action, so I had a false sense of confidence. (and it was on the hardest, most technically demanding piece that I ever played )...

Nowadays, I mix it up pretty well, and mostly use the digital for learning notes and repetition. I practice dynamics only on the acoustic. Again, it boils down to personal preference. There are many great players on this forum who play nicely on a digital. smile
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Music washes away from the soul
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#1700837 - 06/23/11 09:32 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: CebuKid]
Ruxe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Atlanta
Thanks CebuKid for the insight. Sorry to hear about the recital, I wish you better luck on your next one smile.

My long term goal is to eventually play on an acoustic. When I am back at college I can try to mix in some practice on one of the few acoustics. The most I could reasonably manage would be 20-25% of the time. I guess that will have to do haha.

Thanks again for your help so far.


Edited by Ruxe (06/23/11 09:53 PM)

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#1700850 - 06/23/11 09:52 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
Michael Steen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 366
Loc: Sciota, Pennsylvania
Casio Privia is a great choice. Yamaha P95 is also a fine choice in the price range. Try them out if you can at a music store, but if not, they'll both give great action and response.

I have a Yamaha P120, a little more expensive, but I have not found it to diminish my piano skills at all. In fact, until I got it, I had a great deal of trouble moving from a keyboard to my teacher's baby grand. After I got the DP, the problems diappeared.

Of course, as Cebukid said, if you're planning to PERFORM on an acoustic, you need an acoustic--at least for some of the time.

But you can go VERY far on a decent digital. Check out some YouTube videos if you doubt that!
_________________________
I'm getting there--note by note.

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#1700857 - 06/23/11 09:58 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Michael Steen]
Ruxe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Atlanta
Thanks to both of you, this is exactly the information I am looking for! I will do my research on both of those pianos. In case it helps - my price limit is around 750 dollars. It is a bit more than I originally expected because I forgot that by the end of the summer I should have some birthday money from relatives and what not to pad my budget a bit :P.


Edited by Ruxe (06/23/11 09:59 PM)

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#1700858 - 06/23/11 10:04 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
PaperClip Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 506
Loc: Amsterdam, Holland
Hi Ruxe,

Welcome to this forum!

I agree with CebuKid. When I bought my DP, I try a lot in the store and compare them. The action on the highest price range digitals is so good, in my opiniin it has very little difference with the action of a grand.

The action of cheaper digitals has the biggest difference with cheaper uprights with heavy action. So I would think mixing up practise and playing on accoustic and digital is more important with digitals of lower price range.

PS
When I had an upright with heavy action, it was difficult for me switching to a grand with much lighter action. Now I have a good DP, It is difficult switching to an accoustic with heavy action, but not to a grand


Edited by Paperclip (06/23/11 10:14 PM)
Edit Reason: adding PS

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#1700878 - 06/23/11 10:41 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: PaperClip]
Ruxe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Atlanta
Thanks for the warm welcome Paperclip,

So far this seems like a great community of people, who knows maybe eventually ill even be able to contribute some knowledge back grin .

I have quite a bit to think about for know, maybe my sub-conscious will help out will I sleep :p

Good night to those of you in the eastern time zone of the west hemisphere.

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#1700879 - 06/23/11 10:43 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: CebuKid]
supersport Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 380
Loc: Arkansas
I recently played the Korg 170 and 250 and found them pretty nice but I only played them briefly. My acoustic piano is a 2 year old Kawai RX 2.

Any experience with these models as a budget beginner piano for a new learner or returning player? They are what's available locally at that price point and to me seemed sturdy enough to hold up for a while.
_________________________
David




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#1700961 - 06/24/11 02:07 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
Chris G Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 737
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I think your plan to buy a digital to use when you cannot get on an acoustic piano is a good one. I have both an acoustic and a digital ( a Yamaha CP-33 ) and I don't find any problem switching from one to the other. The CP-33 is a really nice digital for around $1000, I could not tell from your post what your budget is.

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#1701032 - 06/24/11 07:20 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Chris G]
Ruxe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Atlanta
After doing research on all of those pianos here are the conclusions I have drawn.

The Casio Privia is exactly what i need and nothing more, I will definitely be able to afford it. However, it seems eventually I might want to move on to a different piano as I progress.

The Yamaha P120 and CP-33 are both very nice digital pianos that would allow much more room for growth than the Casio Privia. However they are currently a bit out of my budget ( I think the extra investment would be worth it in the long run though).

So here is my Plan. I am currently taking summer classes and do not have time for a standard hourly job. However, I can work a bunch of odd jobs like mowing yards, helping neighbor with filling, tutoring, etc... The when the end of the Summer comes, if I have the cash I spring for the P120 or CP-33, otherwise ill just settle for the Casio Privia ( which still seems like a nice DP) .

Do you think i have drawn the proper conclusions and plan? Any further advice or opinions are welcome.

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#1701039 - 06/24/11 07:40 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
Recaredo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 1070
Loc: Southeast of Spain
Ruxe. I think that your plan is fine. Most people begin with a cheap piano. After, if you enjoy learning and playing piano, you always can purchase a better instrument.
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#1701137 - 06/24/11 10:37 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
Sly Cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 103
Loc: England - via Scotland
Try out any and every digital in your price range and be sure they have Graded Hammer Action keys - they mimic the feel of acoustic keys. And obviously, some are better than others.

I have a Yamaha DGX 640 and I love it but there are many good makes out there in that price range and below.

Good luck on your DP quest. And my best advice is, go for feel. Never mind what else the piano can do, if it feels more like an acoustic, then that's the one for you.

Oh yes, and get one with pedals or at least the ability to add a pedal unit. You might get away with just a sustain pedal but might miss not having the option for all 3 pedals later on.
_________________________
Currently playing a Yamaha DGX 640

Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art.


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#1701147 - 06/24/11 10:51 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
Michael Steen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 366
Loc: Sciota, Pennsylvania
Sly Cat,
I have been shopping for a 2nd piano for a vacation home we're buying, but, given where I live, I have no opportunity to try out a bunch. Obviously I love the P120, but I'm going for something less expensive for the vacation home.

I used to have a DGX 500, but I sold it because the action of the keys was exactly like an inexpensive keyboard, and I couldn't stand it. How does the action of the 640 compare to an acoustic or to a more expensive DP?

Eagerly awaiting your reply.
_________________________
I'm getting there--note by note.

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#1701157 - 06/24/11 10:58 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Michael Steen]
Sly Cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 103
Loc: England - via Scotland
Originally Posted By: Michael Steen
Sly Cat,
I have been shopping for a 2nd piano for a vacation home we're buying, but, given where I live, I have no opportunity to try out a bunch. Obviously I love the P120, but I'm going for something less expensive for the vacation home.

I used to have a DGX 500, but I sold it because the action of the keys was exactly like an inexpensive keyboard, and I couldn't stand it. How does the action of the 640 compare to an acoustic or to a more expensive DP?

Eagerly awaiting your reply.


No comparison. The DGX 500 didn't have weighted keys. The DGX 640 not only has weighted keys, but Graded Hammer ones which mimics the feel of an acoustic, heavier on bass notes, lighter on treble, just like an acoustic.

I played on a keyboard with similar keys to the DGX 500 and it was terrible as I could NOT play softly on it at all. I thought I'd have to get an acoustic to get back into proper piano learning but digitals have improved so much recently, I'm glad I was proved wrong.

Yes, there are many more expensive (and better) digital pianos out there than my DGX 640 but trust me, by comparison to the 500, it'll feel like you're playing a Steinway Grand! I'm just getting back into learning after many years and I'm really chuffed with my digital piano. I auditioned many in - and above - the price range and the 640 felt and sounded so much better than the others, it was a no-brainer purchase.

Whatever you get, just make sure it has Graded Hammer action keys.

Good luck. smile


Edited by Sly Cat (06/24/11 11:10 AM)
_________________________
Currently playing a Yamaha DGX 640

Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art.


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#1701304 - 06/24/11 03:31 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
If cost is a major consideration, I would recommend that you don't buy a digital. There are acoustic pianos available for free at your college, so why not use them. Also, all 88-key keyboards are the same size, so any digital piano will take up approximately the same floor space as an acoustic upright piano, about 5' x 2'. This is surprising to many because digitals at first glance appear to be very compact. So if an acoustic upright piano would not fit in your dorm room, then neither will any digital piano. The standard 2-person college dorm room is way to small for a digital, because once you set it up, even a portable stage piano, you can't really take it down easily and store it away after each use.

Digitals are the best thing for developing technique, and you won't hurt your playing any by practicing on one. It has been pointed out in the past on this forum that big-time concert pianists like Andre Watts and Valentina Lisitsa use digitals. But getting a digital at this time would probably not be practical.

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#1701360 - 06/24/11 05:07 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Gyro]
Ruxe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Atlanta
Hey Gyro,

I would definitely use my school's pianos over buying one if I could get regular practice in on one. Unfortunately that is unlikely to happen. I am doing a very demanding major, so time is a big issue. I could probably set aside a guaranteed 50 minutes every other day to practice, and half of that would be eaten up each time just going to and from the place that has the pianos. Not to mention that once you get there, there is no guarantee a piano will be available.

As for the space issue, my friends and I got lucky and were placed into one of the nicer living spaces. It is apartment style, so we each would have our own room. It would be cozy, but there is definitely room for a piano smile. With all of this information provided do you think I should still refrain from purchasing a DP?


Edited by Ruxe (06/24/11 05:09 PM)

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#1701387 - 06/24/11 05:51 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
Chris G Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 737
Loc: Portland, Oregon
If your budget is $500 you should go digital. It will cost you $250 just to move and tune an acoustic piano, and anything you buy for the remaining $250 probably won't stay in tune for more than a few months at a time so it will keep eating your money.

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#1701389 - 06/24/11 05:53 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
PaperClip Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 506
Loc: Amsterdam, Holland
Hi Ruxe,

If time is a big issue, you should consider a DP over an accoustic. With a DP, you're more flexible when to practise. You can play piano at very late hours or very early.

An accoustic makes to much noise to do so. So you will have shorter time range AND you need to be fit enough to concentrate to make practising efficient. You might feel a bit of blah just after a day of following courses. That means stricter time management. There are also accoustics with a digital system, but that's much higher price range.

For a student with a roommate and not so much time, I think you are better off with a DP.

But it's just my opinion.

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#1701420 - 06/24/11 06:29 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: PaperClip]
Ruxe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Atlanta
Haha thanks for validating my opinion. Sometimes its good to here other people agree with you smile. I will probably end up purchasing a DP to use for primary practice. However i will probably also take CebuKid's advice and try to occasionally get some practice in on one of the acoustics. I really have loved learning the piano, so I want to do everything I can do to make this transition work :p


Edited by Ruxe (06/24/11 06:30 PM)

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#1701516 - 06/24/11 09:55 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
mivaldes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 28
I live in Atlanta and will make you a great deal on a Yamaha P140 if you are interested. My apologies if I shouldn't be posting this in here! I'm running out of room with all my pianos!


Marcus
Yamaha U1
Yamaha P140
Yamaha P155

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#1701564 - 06/24/11 11:48 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
Sly Cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 103
Loc: England - via Scotland
Ruxe - there are pros and cons to both digital and acoustic, you just have to find out what your main needs are.

If you'll need to practice late at night or if your practice might cause problems with your peers, a digital mightn't be a bad move. Also, as has been pointed out, moving and tuning an acoustic is expensive if you're on a tight budget.

I personally would love to have an acoustic again as there's nothing quite like the sound and feel of one - but it's not possible for many reasons at this time. Then again, even if I did have an acoustic, I'd still use the digital for so many things, especially practicing new stuff when I don't fancy flaunting my mistakes all over the place and also practicing silently and/or in the wee sma' hours.

Here's a thought. Get yourself a pen and a piece of paper and work out your needs - space, other people, noise factors, practice times, budget - and make your decision based on that.

Good luck.
_________________________
Currently playing a Yamaha DGX 640

Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art.


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#1701604 - 06/25/11 01:38 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Gyro]
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1174
Originally Posted By: Gyro
If cost is a major consideration, I would recommend that you don't buy a digital. There are acoustic pianos available for free at your college, so why not use them. Also, all 88-key keyboards are the same size, so any digital piano will take up approximately the same floor space as an acoustic upright piano, about 5' x 2'. This is surprising to many because digitals at first glance appear to be very compact. So if an acoustic upright piano would not fit in your dorm room, then neither will any digital piano. The standard 2-person college dorm room is way to small for a digital, because once you set it up, even a portable stage piano, you can't really take it down easily and store it away after each use.

Digitals are the best thing for developing technique, and you won't hurt your playing any by practicing on one. It has been pointed out in the past on this forum that big-time concert pianists like Andre Watts and Valentina Lisitsa use digitals. But getting a digital at this time would probably not be practical.


gyros, Au Contraire, Mon Frère, some digitals, like my Casio Privia are quite compact and very portable!

Here's my sweet setup:



Oh, and here's a closeup of that piece up there. I'm almost done!!!! yippie



PS-I got that tabletop music stand from Amazon. Works nicely!


Edited by CebuKid (06/25/11 01:39 AM)
_________________________
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Music washes away from the soul
the dust of everyday life.
- Berthold Auerbach



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#1701616 - 06/25/11 02:25 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: CebuKid]
Chris G Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 737
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Hey Cebukid, I see you're working on the Crysanthemum, how's that going?

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#1701671 - 06/25/11 07:10 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
mivaldes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 28
What is the model of that music rest for the table top?

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#1701748 - 06/25/11 10:18 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Chris G]
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1174
Originally Posted By: Chris G
Hey Cebukid, I see you're working on the Crysanthemum, how's that going?


Chris G, it's going great. I finished the 1st, 3rd, and 4th sections, and can play these at about 75% speed. I have about 3 trouble spots that I need to overcome - I mess up when I play at full tempo, but that's usually the case. The 2nd strain is simple and I plan to start next week and finish it in one week. Then, there's putting it all together and polishing. That can take anywhere between a month or 2. smile
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YouTube Channel
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Music washes away from the soul
the dust of everyday life.
- Berthold Auerbach



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#1701764 - 06/25/11 10:49 AM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: mivaldes]
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1174
Originally Posted By: mivaldes
What is the model of that music rest for the table top?


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002GFQ10
_________________________
YouTube Channel
Scott Joplin Repertoire


Music washes away from the soul
the dust of everyday life.
- Berthold Auerbach



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#1701867 - 06/25/11 02:07 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
wouter79 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3457

- Will a digital piano inhibit the development of piano skills.

Yes I believe so. But a digital has merits too and it might be better than having nothing to play on smile
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#1701928 - 06/25/11 04:57 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: wouter79]
Sly Cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 103
Loc: England - via Scotland
Originally Posted By: wouter79

- Will a digital piano inhibit the development of piano skills.

Yes I believe so. But a digital has merits too and it might be better than having nothing to play on smile


I'm not so sure about that. Pianists, since time immemorial, have had to be able to adjust from one instrument to another as acoustic pianos aren't exactly portable. I've heard of some teachers who encourage their pupils to play on as many instruments as possible so's they can adapt to playing on whatever piano a particular performance venue throws at them.

Providing the digital has 88 graded hammer action keys and a 3 pedal unit, moving from a digital piano to an acoustic and back again could fulfil that particular need.

I'd much rather play on a low-end digital piano than some of the old acoustics I've come across.

Don't get me wrong, I love acoustics but just because it IS acoustic, doesn't make it the best choice for a developing pianist.


Edited by Sly Cat (06/25/11 04:58 PM)
_________________________
Currently playing a Yamaha DGX 640

Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art.


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#1702439 - 06/26/11 02:45 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Sly Cat]
Ruxe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Atlanta
I just want to thank everyone for helping me out with this "Beginner's Dilemma" smile. I feel much more informed and better prepared for the coming transition. I would really like to offer something back to the community for their help, but unfortunately in terms of piano advice I have very little to offer haha. However, If any of you -for some reason- need help with math or physics, just pm me and I would be glad to try and help. I hope you all enjoy your summers!

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#1702456 - 06/26/11 03:25 PM Re: Beginner's Dilemma [Re: Ruxe]
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1174
Originally Posted By: Ruxe
However, If any of you -for some reason- need help with math or physics, just pm me and I would be glad to try and help. I hope you all enjoy your summers!


LOL, I'll take you up on this one day. I am 20 years removed from math and physics studies myself and may need a refresher. smile
_________________________
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Music washes away from the soul
the dust of everyday life.
- Berthold Auerbach



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