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#1362822 - 02/01/10 12:37 AM
Fingering question - chromatic thirds
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 1756
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Hi there,
First time poster here. I play piano at a high level, but I'm always trying to reach even higher. I've been working on the Ginastera First Sonata lately, and trying to work out a fingering for a passage in chromatic major thirds near the end of the second movement.
It's two octaves of rapid ascending legato thirds in the right hand, starting with A-C# and ending at Ab-C. The only workable fingering I have so far is like this:
1-3 - A-C#
2-4 - Bb-D
2-3 - B-D#
1-4 - C-E
2-5 - C#-E#
1-4 - D-F#
2-5 - Eb-G
2-3 - E-G#
1-4 - F-A
2-3 - F#-A#
1-4 - G-B
2-5 - G#-B#
1-3 - A-C#
and repeat from there.
It's obscenely complicated, but the sliding of the index finger from Bb-B and Eb-E seems to be the only way to make this passage legato as requested. Any other ideas?
_________________________
Current projects:
Bach: English Suite No. 3 in G minor
Chopin: Barcarolle, Op. 60
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#1362857 - 02/01/10 01:11 AM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: keyboardklutz]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 1756
Loc: San Jose, CA
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2-4 and 1-5, or 3-5?
_________________________
Current projects:
Bach: English Suite No. 3 in G minor
Chopin: Barcarolle, Op. 60
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#1364383 - 02/02/10 10:29 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: keyboardklutz]
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Full Member
Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 299
Loc: SE Michigan
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Jeffrey, there is a standard fingering for chromatic scales. The black keys are always played with finger 3 (both left and right hands).
For left hand ascending, going from a white key to black key, you always use finger 1 and 3. When there are 2 white keys following, you are on a black key with finger 3, and you would use 2 and 1 for the next 2 white keys, and then back to 3 for the next black key.
So say we are starting from C to C1, your left hand fingering would be 1313213131321 (although in this case you could start the first key with finger 4).
Your ascending right hand is about the same. Going from a white key to black key, you always use finger 1 and 3. When there are 2 white keys following, you are on a black key with finger 3, and you use 1 and 2 for the next 2 white keys, and then back to 3 for the next black key.
So say we are starting from C to C1, your right hand fingering would be 1313123131312. If this is at the end of the scale, you could you 45 to end it.
_________________________
Dave
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#1364393 - 02/02/10 10:36 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: DaveInMichigan]
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Full Member
Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 299
Loc: SE Michigan
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PS: you can see this fingering in Hanon exercise 40. It doesn't have major third, but the same principle is applied in minor third, minor sixth, major sixth, contrary motion, etc.
_________________________
Dave
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#1364423 - 02/02/10 11:02 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: DaveInMichigan]
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5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 5782
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
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Dave, I think he's talking about thirds in one hand.
_________________________
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
♪ ≠ $
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#1364459 - 02/02/10 11:46 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: stores]
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Full Member
Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 299
Loc: SE Michigan
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Dave, I think he's talking about thirds in one hand. Ooops! Sorry! Please completely ignore what I posted earlier. 
_________________________
Dave
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#1364474 - 02/03/10 12:28 AM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: jscomposer]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 1756
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Could you please scan/upload that page from the score? Sure. It's the top line:  Tempo is 160 to a dotted quarter - Presto misterioso. I don't even want to play it that fast though!
Edited by jeffreyjones (02/03/10 12:29 AM)
_________________________
Current projects:
Bach: English Suite No. 3 in G minor
Chopin: Barcarolle, Op. 60
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#1364669 - 02/03/10 09:50 AM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: jeffreyjones]
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Full Member
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Switzerland
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Tempo is 160 to a dotted quarter - Presto misterioso. I don't even want to play it that fast though!
Try this: 1-3 - A-C# 2-4 - Bb-D 1-3 - B-D# 2-4 - C-E 3-5 - C#-E# 1-3 - D-F# 2-4 - Eb-G 1-3 - E-G# 2-4 - F-A 3-5 - F#-A# 1-3 - G-B 2-4 - G#-B# 1-3 - A-C#
_________________________
All bad poetry springs from genuine feeling.
Oscar Wilde
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#1381659 - 02/24/10 02:08 AM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: Vica]
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Full Member
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 184
Loc: California
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Try these: (starting@A-C#)
14 25 13, 14 25 14, 25 14 15, 23 14 25 etc
These may be comfortable too
13 25 13, 14 25 13, 25 13 15, 24 14 25 etc
I guess, don't worry about the sliding on white keys. If you can get the speed and evenness, that's when you can use a touch of pedal for the illusion of legato. Good luck!
_________________________
~The piano is an orchestra with 88... things, you know! ~V. Horowitz
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#1700819 - 06/23/11 09:13 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: jeffreyjones]
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Junior Member
Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 2
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Hello! Realize it's been several months since you posted. Did you end up finding any other options? I started learning it today and my first idea was (same order you wrote):
13
25
12
13
25
13
25
13
25
12
13
25
that's the first measure, then it repeats. The best thing about this passage is it's not legato. That gives more freedom with the fingering.
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#1700822 - 06/23/11 09:15 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: DaveInMichigan]
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Full Member
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Banned
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Jeffrey, there is a standard fingering for chromatic scales. The black keys are always played with finger 3 (both left and right hands).
For left hand ascending, going from a white key to black key, you always use finger 1 and 3. When there are 2 white keys following, you are on a black key with finger 3, and you would use 2 and 1 for the next 2 white keys, and then back to 3 for the next black key.
So say we are starting from C to C1, your left hand fingering would be 1313213131321 (although in this case you could start the first key with finger 4).
Your ascending right hand is about the same. Going from a white key to black key, you always use finger 1 and 3. When there are 2 white keys following, you are on a black key with finger 3, and you use 1 and 2 for the next 2 white keys, and then back to 3 for the next black key.
So say we are starting from C to C1, your right hand fingering would be 1313123131312. If this is at the end of the scale, you could you 45 to end it.
i quite enjoy Chopin's Op 10 # 2 chromatic fingering. Quite fun,
Edited by BadOrange (06/23/11 09:21 PM)
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#1700870 - 06/23/11 10:27 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: PianistaRossa]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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Coolest thing about reviving this thread: It shows us Jeffrey's first post!!!  (He quickly became one of our great members.) And welcome to you too! I see that it's your first post.  P.S. I can't think of chromatic thirds without thinking of the coda to Chopin's 4th Ballade..... Speaking of "fingering".....I changed the fingerings about 10,000 times. And most of them still appear in my score. 
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1700872 - 06/23/11 10:30 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: jeffreyjones]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4623
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
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Chromatic MAJOR thirds? Not what I'm used to, but find the last few pages of Saint-Saens' "Etude en form de Valse" for some fingerings for chromatic major thirds. Scroll down to page "72" (that's the page number the sheet says, not the page number of the .pdf): http://216.129.110.22/files/imglnks/usim...2_No_6_scan.pdf
_________________________
Discontinuing the streaming practice for now, unless a few members PM me and still want me to do it.
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#1700885 - 06/23/11 10:54 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: Orange Soda King]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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Chromatic MAJOR thirds?.... Oh, that's what he said? Never mind! P.S. off the subj, question for OSK: On that other thread, what was the deal about "bandwidth"?
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1700891 - 06/23/11 11:02 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: Mark_C]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4623
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
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P.S. off the subj, question for OSK: On that other thread, what was the deal about "bandwidth"?
I guess you posted a picture, and instead of the image you posted being displayed, something else that said something about an improper use of bandwidth sharing replaced that image.
_________________________
Discontinuing the streaming practice for now, unless a few members PM me and still want me to do it.
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#1700892 - 06/23/11 11:05 PM
Re: Fingering question - chromatic thirds
[Re: Orange Soda King]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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(OK -- thanks!)
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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