Any opinions on this book? I just bought it to see if it's any good, but... well, I don't know if I'm doing things the wrong way, but when I play the excercises the way Cortot wants you to, my fingers hurt and I feel that if I will go on playing the excercises, then I'm really going to injure my fingers. But perhaps I need help from a good teacher to do it the right way.

Let me know what you think of it. Personally I'm not sure yet, because on the other hand, some of the excercises seem very good... Right now, I'm most confused with the "daily keyboard gymnastics" excercises. Some of them don't make much sense to me, others (like the first one) really makes my fingers hurt...

I'm not familiar with the book, but from what
I know of Cortot he apparently hit a lot of
wrong notes, which indicates technical deficiency,
so I would be wary about technical exercises
devised by him. However, his interpretation
was terrific, so if there are exercises that
stress things like rhythm, contrast,
variety, etc., these might be useful.

Not necessarily. Cortot's wrong notes are from his admitted underpractice; his technique was able to handle anything he wanted to play.

Get a copy of his edition of the Chopin Etudes, the comments he makes on how to practice them are indispensible.

Is that available somewhere in the net?

What do you think of "Rational principles", Brendan? If you've used it..

My teacher told me that Vlado Perlemuter, who was Cortots student for a while, played the Chopin etudes for him. However, Perlemuter wasn't told by Cortot to read his hints and comments on the etudes...

I had this book for awhile (xeroxed a copy I obtained through interlibrary loan).

I only did some of the exercises (those which seemed appropriate for my level and interest in piano); and only in one key, not in all the keys as Cortot recommends. The exercises I did do, seemed helpful. They are not a part of my practice anymore, though.

His preliminary exercises ... well, I did almost none of them.

He has various comments sprinkled throughout the book which I found very interesting and helpful.

At the end, Cortot rates many of the standard classical pieces for level of dificulty in several categories. For instance, Liszt's Benediction To God is given the highest level of difficulty in the category of wide stretches. Seeing Cortot's ratings for pieces I've played or am thinking of playing, was in itself worth the price of xeroxing the book! [The book I got was on oversized paper -- cost ~ $15 to copy at Kinkos.]

I have the book and it's interesting. I think anyone who exercises realizes they are stretching the muscles and judicious use is in order. The Marine Motto--No Pain, No Gain-- is perhaps apropo as some exertion is necessary to develop the hand for strength, stamina, and endurance for long compositions and difficult, demanding passages.

Practically all of the technique books, Joseffy, Brahms, Dohnanyi, Pischna, Hanon, etc., demand some sort of exertion which in turn is tiring and straining. Do 7th arpeggios for three octaves in all keys at one, then two, then three, and then four notes per click on the metronome and see if you don't feel a little tired and strained (chromatically, of course).

If you're afraid of developing your technique then you need to consider your objectives. I do a very intense daily technical routine and have no problems with my fingers, wrists, arms. If you have injuries then you're definitely doing something wrong and need to correct your procedure.

Brendan: i've never seen his editions published in anything but french. Is there an edition which has an english translation of his comments? thanks

Gibbons--Yes--there are translations by Parkinson and also published by Salabert on the same cheap paper and high price as the French language issue. I have the Op. 10 in my lap right now.

Thanks, Varcon - much appreciated.

Yep
Truly amazing.

Hello,

Would someone owning the _Rational Principles_ and a scanner be so kind as to complete my set by scanning the transferable table and sending it to me?

You would make somebody very happy!

Most of the Cortot editions in English were posted in this thread at Pianophilia:
http://www.pianophilia.com/pun/viewtopic.php?id=98

Since the posts are old, you will probably have to gently ask someone to repost whichever scores you want. They will usually oblige.

Tom R:

What do you refer to when you say the "transferable table"? I have the French edition and nothing I see in it helps me identify a "transferable table."

Regards,

Hi BruceD,

Thank you for asking!
In the English edition, after the foreword and before the daily keyboard gymnastics there is the "Plan for the Study of the Exercises," and that plan is numbered 1-5. At number 5, Cortot talks about this transferable table of reference that "should act as a guide for the systematic study of each chapter, and which should be placed opposite each page under attention."

Then the content of this table is introduced. When I checked this book out from the library, I couldn't find any table, but I did see the library's reference information attached to the book's cover listed a one-page item as being part of the book.

Best,
Tom

Tom :

I see now what you are refering to. My copy is a photocopy, photocopied by the Vassar College Library in response to my request on ILL when I was at Bryn Mawr College, several decades ago. Each page of my copy, therefore, is a loose sheet, but I can understand that the "transferable table" may well have been a loose page in the original since Cortot recommends that it be kept in view when studying all of the exercises.

It consists of :

• 1. One-octave of each of the twelve major and twelve minor scales (some using clefs other than treble and bass - there's a reading exercise in itself for many of us pianists!)
• 2. a chromatic formula pattern for all exercises preceded by the letter C
• 3. Examples of three-, four-, and five-note chord progressions to use for all exercises preceded by the letter H.
• 4. Examples of different rhythms to be used for all exercises preceded by the letter R.
• 5. Table of fingerings to be used for all exercises preceded by the letter D.

My feeling, sometimes repeated when I look at the editions of his Chopin Etudes, is that this may be over-kill. If one were to do all that Cortot recommends either in this work or in his Chopin Etudes editions, one could spend most of ones practicing life doing all the exercises in all the keys in all the rhythmic patterns in all the fingerings. Would one ever have time to study the Etudes or anything else?

You may, pace M. Cortot! be just as well off without it, n'est-ce pas?

Regards,

Well, that really is only with modern ears. Don't forget that most recordings these days are heavily edited, including very famous recordings (the Pollini Petrouchka comes to mind). This is why turkeys say that pianists from before 1950 made so many mistakes.

The reality about Cortot is that he was no more inaccurate than somebody like Richter (listen to his live recordings!!!) and people would drool over any Richter exercises available.

I realize this is an old thread, but perhaps this will be of some use to somebody:

Rational Principles for Pianoforte Technique

Also, here is Cortot's book of 12 Etudes by Chopin
12 Etudes

Hope this of some help to someone.

-Alan

I have got the first one but it was in French. Thanks for posting this version!!!
Did Cortot write anything for Chopin Op. 25 Etudes?

Great links, thanks!

Yes. I got the Op.25 a few months ago. It is similar to Op.10 in that there are execises for each Etude. Cortot also wrote similar 'study' versions for many of Chopin's compositions: Waltzes, Nocturnes (in 2 volumes), Preludes, Scherzi, Impromptus, etc. I have collected most of them - and yes, in English translation. I find them very useful. I tend to lean towards his editions because my first' good' teacher studied with Cortot.

As far as the 'Transferable Table' from the 'Rational Principles...', it is a double-sided sheet of transpositions, rhythms, and different chord configurations to use with some of the exercises. In my opinion if one did 1/100 of what he suggests you'd spend half your life doing exercises.

That's my feeling about the exercises accompanying both books of the Etudies, too. One needs to be selective, I guess.

Regards,

I'd love to have the Op.25. Please do post a link if you guys come across one. Thanks.

Hahaha...ummm no. Cortot was notorious for wrong notes and with good reason as they abound aplenty. You're certainly correct about modern recordings being submitted to heavy editing, and Cortot was definitely no slouch (phenomenal, in fact), but the wrong notes are there.

To my listening experience, Richter's live recordings- and they are many- have nowhere near the number of mistakes I hear in Cortot's.
Not to diminish Cortot.. Just a factoid..Others disagree?

@Liszt85:
I know this is VERY late, but I came across a link
Chopin Etude Op.25, Cortot (English)

(I am posting this because I believe this particular edition is no longer being sold. If I have violated any rights, please let me know and I'll remove the link.)

Better late than never.. Thanks! I think I found it elsewhere sometime back, but I'm not sure, so I'll download this.

YOU ARE AWESOME! Thank you!

Thanks feebeeliszt Glad I could be of help