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#1629176 - 02/27/11 11:50 AM How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via internal speakers?
qwert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Switzerland
Hello,

I am new owner of the Roland FP-8. Piano is good in every respect, keybed is perfect, 5 piano sounds are very usable. One thing bugs me though, piano is not loud enough via built in speakers. Loudness is barely enough for a small room ( volume regulator is at max ). The same is for headset, volume is just enough when slider is at max. What I noticed is that volume gradually raises through the practice session. Say, after one hour I need to reduce volume to its 80% mark to stay at the same level in the headset.

I connected my iPod ( iPod volume was at 20% mark ) to Line-in and got very loud sound while piano slider was only at 30% of the volume.

Question to FP-8 owners: What is the sound level in your piano?

Thanks, qwert.

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#1630200 - 02/28/11 07:48 PM Re: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via internal speakers? [Re: qwert]
krzyzowski Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 108
Congrat on your FP8. I have 2 of them and consider them the best built DP Roland has ever sold. I never had volume issues with them; broken hammers on a few keys but they are cheap. I use a sub-woofer on the mono line out and thats all. Plenty of volume on the built ins. I would look around for a Roland keyboard guy and have them listen to it. Tne slider may need cleaning. Those Pianos are 20yr old.

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#1630421 - 03/01/11 03:55 AM Re: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via internal speakers? [Re: qwert]
qwert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Switzerland
Thank you for the info! I check it out.

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#1630424 - 03/01/11 04:00 AM Re: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via internal speakers? [Re: qwert]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
What is the sound level in your piano?

You have a sound level meter? Do you want us to measure the sound pressure in decibels and then report back to you?
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1633230 - 03/04/11 09:29 AM SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
qwert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Switzerland
Update.

Problem is solved. 2 capacitors on the main board ( C41 and C49 ) were bad. I replaced them and my piano has normal loudness back. Comfortable level is around quarter of the Master Volume slider.

Thank you krzyzowski again for info.
qwert

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#1649439 - 03/28/11 10:28 AM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
riskpeep Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Ashburn, VA
Qwert,

Hello, I'm interested to know anything you can share about your FP-8 repair. I've got an FP-8 (love it), but it is starting to get static on output and eventually gets quiet like you describe or cuts out entirely.

I'd be interested to understand how you identified the bad caps, how you got them unsoldered (I looked at my board and the caps are surface mount), etc.

With thanks,
Rob
_________________________
Started Playing Piano December 27 2011
Self-Teaching
Working on: Alfred's AIO - Hanon's arobic 6ths
Least Favorite thing: RH G-D7 chord transition
Play a Vintage 1992 Roland FP-8

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#1649460 - 03/28/11 11:16 AM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: riskpeep]
krzyzowski Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 108
I'm not Quert, but can say That my FP had the same problem and it is a minor repair, however, I had a local Roland keyboard guy do it because they know what to replace. Said it was bad caps also, but to me it sounded like failing outputs. I have years of experience repairing audio equip, but still paid the Roland guy. Repair was under $100.

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#1649505 - 03/28/11 12:30 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: riskpeep]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: riskpeep

I'd be interested to understand how you identified the bad caps, how you got them unsoldered (I looked at my board and the caps are surface mount), etc.


The classic method to re-work surface mount is a hot air system but something as simple as a cap can be un-soldered with a fine tip solder iron. Heat each end alternately then pull the part off with tweezers. In a way surface mount parts are easier to work on because you do all the work from one side. To find the defect the normal method is to inject a signal at the input of the amp and then follow it stage by stage until you find a problem but an experienced repair tech might just suspect a 20 year old electrolytic cap might be the problem and as they only cost a few cents may as well replace them.

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#1649756 - 03/28/11 06:28 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: ChrisA]
qwert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Switzerland
Hi.
Do what ChrisA said. That how I did it. Thanks Chris, spot on.

( I have FP-8 schematics and this is 80% of success )

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#1649766 - 03/28/11 06:48 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
qwert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Switzerland
Nearly forgot.
To confirm that caps are bad you could connect audio player to LINE-IN connector at the back ( put the volume slider to minimum smile ). If you hear loud sound - caps are bad. If volume is still low - caps are good.

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#1650108 - 03/29/11 09:02 AM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
riskpeep Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Ashburn, VA
qwert,

Could you share the schematics? I'm pretty sure I've got the same problem and I'd like to be able to trace the circuit as I go to be sure.

R
_________________________
Started Playing Piano December 27 2011
Self-Teaching
Working on: Alfred's AIO - Hanon's arobic 6ths
Least Favorite thing: RH G-D7 chord transition
Play a Vintage 1992 Roland FP-8

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#1650246 - 03/29/11 01:05 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: riskpeep]
qwert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Switzerland
Originally Posted By: riskpeep
qwert,

Could you share the schematics? I'm pretty sure I've got the same problem and I'd like to be able to trace the circuit as I go to be sure.

R

See PM.
If you want to be sure do a little test I mentioned above ( with audio player connected to line in input).

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#1650284 - 03/29/11 01:52 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
riskpeep Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Ashburn, VA
I definitely have the loud input problem to line in. I connected a metronome and almost blew the speakers with line volume at about 10%.
_________________________
Started Playing Piano December 27 2011
Self-Teaching
Working on: Alfred's AIO - Hanon's arobic 6ths
Least Favorite thing: RH G-D7 chord transition
Play a Vintage 1992 Roland FP-8

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#1650451 - 03/29/11 06:01 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: riskpeep]
qwert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Switzerland
Originally Posted By: riskpeep
I definitely have the loud input problem to line in. I connected a metronome and almost blew the speakers with line volume at about 10%.


( I told you to put the volume down )

yes, your problem is the same as mine. Change caps and enjoy.
qwert

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#1666549 - 04/25/11 09:08 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
Pianoman1980 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/22/11
Posts: 1
Originally Posted By: qwert
Hi.
Do what ChrisA said. That how I did it. Thanks Chris, spot on.

( I have FP-8 schematics and this is 80% of success )


Qwert - would you mind sharing those FP-8 schematics? I would greatly appreciate any help. I have the exact same problem, and when I opened it up I can see the caps, but to have the correct values would be great. Did you order them from Digikey? Thanks in advance! intoabyss at live.com

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#1666690 - 04/26/11 05:16 AM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: Pianoman1980]
qwert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Switzerland
Originally Posted By: Pianoman1980
but to have the correct values would be great.


Hi.
Value is 10M/16V for both. I bought them from the nearest shop and they are in a different form factor.

br, qwert.

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#1704826 - 06/30/11 10:03 AM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
riskpeep Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Ashburn, VA
I just did the cap replacement and it works as advertized.

Took me a while to build up the courage to tear my keyboard apart and make the capacitor replacement repair. I can definitely confirm that many of the caps had leaked. Most just onto the pads under the caps so not really visible until I got the old caps off, but two were so bad that the electrolytic had spilled out onto the PCB and made visible corrosion marks on the board.

I finished up last night and everything seems to have worked swimmingly. I went ahead and replaced all the caps on the board. There were 11 I think. Like 6 - 10uf, 4 - 47uf, and 1 - 100uf if I recall.

As it stands, I have a 100% keyboard again and I'm really happy.

R
_________________________
Started Playing Piano December 27 2011
Self-Teaching
Working on: Alfred's AIO - Hanon's arobic 6ths
Least Favorite thing: RH G-D7 chord transition
Play a Vintage 1992 Roland FP-8

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#2172632 - 10/27/13 06:06 AM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: riskpeep]
my88keys Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 13
Loc: Au bout de chaque rue une mont...
Hi all,

thanks for the precious information on this thread. It helped me to bring my venerable FP8 back to life.

I quickly found a pdf of the repair manual online and started to check the coupling capacitors C41 and C49. It finally turned out that all the smd capacitors on the main board had leaked and needed replacment. The major problem was cleaning the leaked electrolyte. Incomplete cleaning makes re-soldering nearly impossible. There are many helpful youtube videos on unsoldering, cleaning and resoldering this type of capacitors out there.

After replacement the piano still didn't work properly. With some more searching I found that leaked electrolyte and maybe the heat from desoldering and soldering had damaged one of the through-contacts (little holes) between the front and back side of the pcb. After soldering a small piece of wire (leg of resistor) across the hole to re-connect the tracks on the front and back side it came back working normally.

C41 and C49 in the repair manual...:


Left to right: C49,C41,C37, C50:


Not a beautiful repair, but working. The feedthrough resistor wire leg repair can be seen above C41 on the left right close to connector CN9 (here labelled 1).

I found the capacitors with correct dimensions at radiospares-France (come in packs of 5), here are the references:

10/16 dimension B: ref 537-0742
47/16 dimension D: ref 537-0180
100/6.3 dimension D: ref 569-203

There is still some weak whizzing sound at the end of the decay of the notes of the piano sounds remaining. It was always there from the beginning and gets a little less after warming up. I suppose its the D/A MSB adjustment of VR1 and VR2, but don't know yet for sure.

my88keys

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#2194471 - 12/08/13 11:36 AM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
danmookie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 2
Loc: CA

Hello, my88keys, I am new to this forum, and really appreciate your sharing your bad cap replacement experience. My FP-8 is now working again, but the "Whirring Sound" during the decay is driving me nutz. I am guessing that it is a filter cap somewhere. The frequency of the "whizzing" on mine differs with which note(s) are being held. I think it is having a negative effect on the quality of sound when playing as well.
Have you found this trouble?
I have figured out that I have a later revision main board in my FP-8, and there are no VR1 or VR2. My board number ends in 2002, while the manual I downloaded ends in 2000. Guess it is time for another schematic search.
Thanks!
Danmookie

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#2194491 - 12/08/13 12:22 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
danmookie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 2
Loc: CA
Found it! Unfortunately, I am not sure what fixed the "Whizzing" sound on decay, but here is what I did.

I pulled the main board and gave it a bath in Isopropyl Alcohol and used a toothbrush to remove some electrolyte I had missed. On reassembly, I was quite a bit more careful with routing the wires to the connectors. I used the metal cable wraps mounted to the boards to move the wires further away from the boards. My intuition suggests that the wire routing is what solved the problem. This would be a good thing to try first, as it is quite easy to do without pulling the board.

While I was in there, I tested some of the pass through holes on the board, and found that not all of them are connected through. An example would be the left and right outputs on CN1. The pass through is to ground, and that would not help with the output...

Danmookie

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#2195050 - 12/09/13 02:18 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
my88keys Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 13
Loc: Au bout de chaque rue une mont...
Hi Danmookie,

great to hear you found this thread helpful. Similar story to mine - stumbled across this thread on the FP8, helped me to fix the issue and got hooked to Pianoworld...!
Regarding through-holes: well, 'mine' the one I was talking about was definitely supposed to be through contact that was damaged.
Regarding the whizzing sound, I still didn't find the time to check my suspicion, and surely will also try your hint to check cable routing. Thanks! You mention the metal cable wraps - this just reminds me how outstandingly well and overbuilt this Piano is, with the extruded aluminum profile housing, pcb mounting, cable routing and all.
Did you have the apparently archetypical hammer issues on your late unit? I have fissure on all plastic levers where the weights are, but not a single one broken.
(I am wondering whether it is the shocks, the plastic shrinking or even something more weird. Could there be a volume change in the weight over time? The weights seem to be soft metal. Mine has seen temperature cycles to rather low temperatures. Could there be something like 'tin pest'? But the weights seem still silvery and there is no white powder. Pure speculation, but would be interested in the reason. Should maybe move to 'broken hammer thread' somewhere.)

Regards,

my88keys

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#2259990 - 04/10/14 09:52 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
G Husky Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/27/14
Posts: 3
I have a FP8,and I need the board like the one posted by my88keys.I recieved this piano from a friend.It was apparently in a shop for repair,but the shop closed.It looks to be in desent shape.They must have unplugged the board from it with the intention of replacing it.Can anyone tell me how to find it?Or if it can be found..Thanks for listening

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#2259998 - 04/10/14 09:58 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: my88keys]
G Husky Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/27/14
Posts: 3
Where can I find that board that you posted.I have a fp8 and that part is missing.Thanks G Husky

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#2260099 - 04/11/14 05:51 AM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
lolatu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 427
Loc: UK
Your piano is missing a whole circuit board?

Contact Roland, who have spare parts people who can tell you if the part is available.

If not, look out for another FP8 on eBay etc that you can break for parts.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Roland FP3 / Pianoteq Stage / Tannoy Reveal Active / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22 / K&M 18810

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#2268867 - 04/29/14 09:22 PM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: qwert]
Grim Reaper Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/14
Posts: 2
I have a Roland FP-8G which I purchased in 1991 for my children to learn piano on. They took piano lessons for about a year then stopped and the FP-8 has sat unused since then in storage. I took it out of storage and discovered that the monitor speakers' output is extremely low. While searching for information about what may be causing the problem and its remedy I found this forum. I performed the line output test and the output level of the left/mono channel is OK but the right channel output is non-existent. Although the left/mono channel line output is normal, it is a bit noisy and there's a low-level motorboating sound when there's no audio signal. When I bought the FP-8, I also obtained the service manual so I can refer to it but figuring out what is causing the problem(s) is like looking for a needle in a hay stack. Does anyone have any ideas regarding what I can do to troubleshoot and repair the FP-8? If you do, please post it in this thread for me and others.


Edited by Grim Reaper (05/01/14 09:59 AM)

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#2317679 - 08/20/14 10:57 AM Re: SOLVED: How loud Roland FP-8 supposed to be via int spk? [Re: Grim Reaper]
TampaGuy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/19/14
Posts: 1
Grim, dunno if you've done anything w/ this in the last 4 months, but it really isn't "like looking for a needle in a hay stack"--I have the same problem, but w/ the added issue that the amp output (both channels) has now died completely (it was working before). My internal left channel still works (albeit at a reduced output level), the right channel is mostly dead, and the static is often overwhelming. The problem is likely those electrolytic caps. On mine, a visual inspection shows evidence of leakage at C41 (I'll include C49, since it's so close), C31, C32 (again, due to proximity) and C11; C6 was obviously replaced at some point (not by me).

Unlike you, I don't have the service manual, which I understand has the schematics and info I need to replace those caps. Could you scan the pages for the main board, amp board assy. and jack board and either post them or send to me? The snippet posted above is nice, but doesn't show the other caps.

If you can get me the schematics, I'll fix mine and let you know if that completely resolves the problem.

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