Hey Folks,

The rule is: a sharp is a sharp until it becomes "natural" again, right?

Here's my dilemma below - is the F in "measure 3" still sharp or is it back to natural?



It doesn't sound correct if left as a sharp.

PS-Ah yes, I know...the trial and tribulations of the self-directed. Well, that's where you guys come in to help me.

The f is only sharp in the first measure. Accidentals only apply in the same measure.

I take it that is a treble and bass clef? ( there are no marks given so I will presume it is)

Are you trying to play a chord of G,B and F in the bass or G.B and F#
The fact that the B in this chord has been naturalised would suggest it was flat in the first place? So is this piece in the key of F major? Or is it in G? without knowing this it is hard to say whether the f# are the accidentals or Bb are accidentals.

many pieces of music fail to naturalise when they should, misprints, etc etc.
Play what sounds right. Are you sure you are playing the same note in the right hand as in the left hand chord?

I would guess that the peice is written in the F major scale. I don't see why that the second F# in the first measure is marked with the # though, because I would presume that if F is sharp at what ever point, then all the following F's are sharp in that measure, unless neutralised. The F in the third measure is definately NOT F#

Rostosky, it couldn't possibily be in G major scale, otherwise, F's would be neutralised in certain measures, and there would be no need to indicate an F#, as F's would return to being sharp automatically on the next measure (that included an F) of where the F's where neutralised.

Yes, treble and bass, and it is in C-minor. The flats are A,B, and E through this whole section; hence, why the B gets naturalized.

I have 2 different scores telling me 2 different things.

What is an "accidental"? I'll need to look this up. Anyway, F-natural sounds...well... natural in that 3rd measure.

Thanks for your help.

This is right. "Accidentals" are the sharp/flat marks that change a pitch to something different from the key signature. They only affect the measure they're in.

Cathy

Good job I said, "I guess it's in F major scale" rather than "it is" lol, otherwise I might have had to go back and do a little editing lol

Accidental:
Definition 1: An accidental is a sharp, flat, or natural note that goes against the key signature. Example: In C minor, an F sharp is an accidental, but a B flat is not an accidental (since B flat is already in the key signature).

Definition 2: An accidental is the sharp, flat, or natural sign, used in the score to indicate one of the notes described in definition 1.

I should have plain outright asked what key it was in instead of trying to guess.
Doh.

If the F's in the treble clef were sharpened in measure three, they'd possibly sound a bit harsh against the F naturals in the bass clef.

But there seems to be some odd editing going on, with both F's sharpened in the first measure. I would imagine that editorial errors can't be ruled out.

If it is in the key of C then any sharp (or flat) indicated only lasts until the end of that particular bar.
And as mentioned, there really was no need for the second sharp in this example to be listed at all since that F is presumed to be sharp until the end of that bar.

Strange why they repeat it. At best it should have had a (#).

Another thing to remember is that they only affect that specific octave for the same measure. So if there had been an F an octave below that would have needed another accidental.

The Debussy arabesque is the first piece I'm learning that has a double sharp in it (key signature is E major, Debussy wants a natural G so writes it as Fx (double sharp). Trips be up each time

Accidentals have been explained so I'm sure you're au fait with them now.

Just to clarify - the rule you quoted only applies if the sharp or flat is indicated in the key signature.

If it's an accidental - as has been pointed out - it only lasts for the bar it's in. A new bar cancels all previous accidentals but should continue to be played in the key signature.

(For those not sure, the key signature is found right at the beginning of a piece, beside the initial treble and bass clefs. For example if, at the start of the piece, there were sharp signs on the B line and E space, then you'd know that piece was in the Key of B Flat Major.)

Here's a useful link for anyone who wants a concise explanation with graphics.

Also, key signatures can change anywhere in a piece of music...just to complicate the issue! But any changes are shown in just the same way - sharps and flats marked on the lines and spaces beside the treble and bass clef.

As has been stated, the second accidental in measure one is unnecessary. But I have found this sort of thing in many places in beginner music. My teacher explains it away as the editor just trying to be helpful. But I find it very confusing because it makes me start to second guess what I thought the rules for music notation are. Maybe this is an aid for a sight reader, but it is a great frustration for a decoder like me. Am I the only one bothered by this?

No, you are not alone. It bugs me a bit too.

I have found it in several of my books - and yes, I agree, the editor is probably trying to be helpful. However, the result is that I have inevitably asked "What the heck???" and have had to double check with my teacher that it really isn't necesary.

mini grrrrr

Thanks, I feel better knowing it's not just me. Back to practice.

Yeah. If I want 'reminder' accidentals, I can pencil them in myself. But I have to say that I've never seen accidentals repeated in the same bar, except occasionally in brackets where there really is a possibility of confusion. The example posted looks to me more like an error than an attempt to be helpful. I could be wrong, of course.