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Originally posted by Rank Piano Amateur: I agree with a suggestion made by Noctugranes. Norbert: I very much enjoy your posts, but you should put your brands back in your signature line. I looked up your site, and you sell some wonderful brands, but it would be helpful to have this information included up front. The fact that you sell competing brands is useful information. It does not, of course, necessarily undercut the accuracy of what you say, but it is information worth having when weighing competing views. By the way, I believe that all dealers should include this information in their signature lines, for the same reason.
As a matter of fact, this is not only a fine suggestion, but it is one of the few rules of Piano World Forums. Not sure why the moderators and owner do not enforce this.
You all seem to be coming from the position that Baldwin is out of business or bankrupt. I see NOTHING to indicate that.
From what I see, Baldwin simply closed the Truman plant. The designs, patents, and trademarks are still owned by Gibson. And, I see nothing to indicate that they have closed their factory in China.
I think it unfair to Baldwin for anyone to imply in their posts that Baldwin is gone, unless they really are.
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Originally posted by Steve Cohen: You all seem to be coming from the position that Baldwin is out of business or bankrupt. I see NOTHING to indicate that.
From what I see, Baldwin simply closed the Truman plant. The designs, patents, and trademarks are still owned by Gibson. And, I see nothing to indicate that they have closed their factory in China.
I think it unfair to Baldwin for anyone to imply in their posts that Baldwin is gone, unless they really are.
You're absolutely right, and I think it was worth pointing that out.
But IMHO the direness of the news is due to fact that the Artist Grands are the "real" Baldwins upon which the marque's fame and reputation has always rested. They're wonderful pianos, and if they're no longer made in the U.S.—or no longer made anywhere—it's a lamentable loss.
Well as I indicted earlier. I got this information from the local Baldwin dealer. They indicted that no new Baldwins were coming to their store. So I would ask the question to the other Baldwin dealers on this forum, what is the word you are getting from your Baldwin supplier?
According to the article in the Trumann Democrat dated December 8, 2008, the announcement of the layoffs and the halt to production was made one week ago, on December 5, to the Trumann Chamber of Commerce. And yet I still can't find a single other mention to this event!
Obviously, what happens in the piano industry won't grab the headlines in the way that the roiling events in the auto industry do, and there's a lot of competing bad news currently. Still, I find it very strange that such an occurrence involving a very famous maker—even to the non-musical public—would go unreported in any other news media.
Obviously, what happens in the piano industry won't grab the headlines in the way that the roiling events in the auto industry do, and there's a lot of competing bad news currently. Still, I find it very strange that such an occurrence involving a very famous maker—even to the non-musical public—would go unreported in any other news media.
Steven
I do think we sometimes overestimate our (the piano-literate community's) relevance to the general public. I know a lot of people who don't even know about the prestige of the Steinway brand, let alone Baldwin. And we're talking less than 100 layoffs, in a month when the US economy lost tens of thousands (or something along those lines).
Semi-pro pianist Tuesdays 5-8 at Vince's West Sacramento, California
Charles Lang said "I know a lot of people who don't even know about the prestige of the Steinway brand, let alone Baldwin."
That wasn't the case when I grew up. Sad how things have changed. When Gibson bought Dongbei I predicted we would see Chinese built Baldwins. That's what I would do if I made those decisions. Just think, a Chinese Baldwin M starting at 13k.
Originally posted by Bob: Charles Lang said "I know a lot of people who don't even know about the prestige of the Steinway brand, let alone Baldwin."
That wasn't the case when I grew up. Sad how things have changed....
Same here, and I guess I still see the world through the same lens. Steinway and Baldwin were the two top-quality American piano brands, and "everyone" knew that (just like they knew Hertz and Avis)—from folks who weren't musically inclined to those of us who were but whose families could only afford Kimballs and Wurlitzers.
Originally posted by Bob: Charles Lang said "I know a lot of people who don't even know about the prestige of the Steinway brand, let alone Baldwin."
That wasn't the case when I grew up. Sad how things have changed. When Gibson bought Dongbei I predicted we would see Chinese built Baldwins. That's what I would do if I made those decisions. Just think, a Chinese Baldwin M starting at 13k.
Bob, if the quality is there, I will be one of their first customers. Not an M, though. It would have to be an L or larger to be worth the upgrade.
Originally posted by Bob: [b] Charles Lang said "I know a lot of people who don't even know about the prestige of the Steinway brand, let alone Baldwin."
That wasn't the case when I grew up. Sad how things have changed. When Gibson bought Dongbei I predicted we would see Chinese built Baldwins. That's what I would do if I made those decisions. Just think, a Chinese Baldwin M starting at 13k.
Bob, if the quality is there, I will be one of their first customers. Not an M, though. It would have to be an L or larger to be worth the upgrade. [/b]
Well, that would be an interesting scenario if they started making the Artist series (M,R and L) in China. The "Hamilton" grands that Baldwin has been making in China have been nothing exceptional, but if they kept the specs the same for the Artist grands and built them carefully in China, there's no reason those pianos could not be competitive if they were marketed properly. If I remember right, Ric Overton told me that production of the Hamilton 243 studio upright has switched to China, and that the quality is very good. So if that happened with the M's R's and L's, that could work out well. I will not miss the crazy color schemes if they decide to drop those. Larry
Originally posted by NoctuGranes: [b] I knew it was over when I saw the stupid paint jobs...
Yeah. I was still waiting for them to make one with the same fake mother-of-pearle look as on the Baldwin Bowling Balls. [/b]
I never understood it at all, except insofar as the garishness made me wonder if it was an homage to perhaps the most famous (and infamous) Baldwin artist of all—Liberace!
The outlandishness of those finishes would have made him proud, but his tastes aren't widely considered worthy of emulation. What were they thinking? It seemed so misguided.
The original plan of the custom grands was to show that we could do anything. For example, if you have a particular color scheme in your home, hotel, restraunt,etc. that the customer wanted us to match, we could. I made a purple one for a ministry in Nashville with the signatures of the pastors on the fall board. More recently I matched the tables and cabinets of a big club. I don't think any of us intended for it to take the road that it took, but, it did and we couldnt stop it.
That was the original idea of the custom grands. It is a great plan but, not on the level it became.
As a potential customer of Baldwin I was pretty surprised when I went into a dealer recently and found a brand new Hamilton on the floor done in the celebratory 'Gibson' scheme with sunburst pattern (limited edition, with electric guitar necks as legs, those idiots) and the custom work right there on the front top panel had big cracks in it. The cracks were visible from five feet away.
Clearly something had dried out and/or shrunk in the inlay work between the factory and showroom or after it was on the showroom for a while. All I could think was that it was actually making a worse impression being there than if it weren't there at all.
It apparently was a not so subtle sign that Gibson and Baldwin do not go well together!!
Semi-pro pianist Tuesdays 5-8 at Vince's West Sacramento, California
I bet Liberace would have thought they were too garish. I remember looking at each of the custom pianos on the Baldwin website. There were some combinations of wood finishes that actually looked very nice.
Ric do you have any 45" or taller Chinese-made Baldwins on the floor? Last time I was there I don't remember seeing any Hamiltons or 6000s (except a couple US-made models).
1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton 1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton You can right-click my avatar for an option to view a larger version.
Originally posted by Ric Overton: The original plan of the custom grands was to show that we could do anything. For example, if you have a particular color scheme in your home, hotel, restraunt,etc. that the customer wanted us to match, we could. I made a purple one for a ministry in Nashville with the signatures of the pastors on the fall board. More recently I matched the tables and cabinets of a big club. I don't think any of us intended for it to take the road that it took, but, it did and we couldnt stop it.
That was the original idea of the custom grands. It is a great plan but, not on the level it became.
Ric Overton
Ric,
The theory makes sense the way you present it, but I'm thinking some focus groups and market research would have indicated they shouldn't take it too far.
As they say, "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".
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88 key - No I have just about sold out of Baldwin. There is an L-1, R-1 and M-1 left of my inventory. However, I have had the Chinese version fo the 243 and it was a nice piano. The larger pianos have accu just hitch pins and a nice scale design.
Piano World - I agree completely with your sentiments. However, as you know sometimes owners dont listen to anyone except the voices in thier heads. If you could prove a track record or produce customers to back up your thougths or assumptions then perhaps "crazy ideas" may have some merit.
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