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#170727 - 12/13/08 04:07 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5573
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ric Overton:
88 key - No I have just about sold out of Baldwin. There is an L-1, R-1 and M-1 left of my inventory. However, I have had the Chinese version fo the 243 and it was a nice piano. The larger pianos have accu just hitch pins and a nice scale design.

Piano World - I agree completely with your sentiments. However, as you know sometimes owners dont listen to anyone except the voices in thier heads. If you could prove a track record or produce customers to back up your thougths or assumptions then perhaps "crazy ideas" may have some merit.

http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/Divisions/.../High%2DRoller/

This links should say it all. You will have to copy and paste.

Ric Overton [/b]
Yikes!

You're right Ric, the link says it all :-)
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#170728 - 12/13/08 04:17 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2079
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ric Overton:
88 key - No I have just about sold out of Baldwin. There is an L-1, R-1 and M-1 left of my inventory. However, I have had the Chinese version fo the 243 and it was a nice piano. The larger pianos have accu just hitch pins and a nice scale design.

Piano World - I agree completely with your sentiments. However, as you know sometimes owners dont listen to anyone except the voices in thier heads. If you could prove a track record or produce customers to back up your thougths or assumptions then perhaps "crazy ideas" may have some merit.

http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/Divisions/.../High%2DRoller/

This links should say it all. You will have to copy and paste.

Ric Overton [/b]
Oh man that's right on I think. It sure does. That paint job is a passive-aggressive expression of "I hate this big clunky thing so get it out of my life and let me go have fun". It brings to mind how differently the Chinese view the piano culturally these days. There's an attitude of respect for a piano shown in this Chinese video just as an example. It's no wonder they're taking over the business if their younger generation takes classical music this seriously:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xx2h9Zuvmw
_________________________
Charles Lang
Working on: A Night in Tunisia; Memories of Tomorrow (Keith Jarrett).
Just started: Brazilian Like (Michel Petrucciani)

Baldwin Model R (1974), Hardman 5'9" grand (1915), Rieger-Kloss 42.5" vertical

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#170729 - 12/13/08 04:20 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Ric Overton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Burbank, Ca
This piano retails for approximately $75,000.00. I was told by my rep that is was VERY saleable. But, my requests to make the dice fuzzy was turned down.

Ric
_________________________
Ric Overton
Ric@PianoSD.com
http://PianoSD.com

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#170730 - 12/13/08 04:20 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2079
It just made me think that maybe it's time to have a piano performance in the US where the performer take a chainsaw to a concert grand.

I think music is at that point. People broke away from tonality, then they broke away from using the keys (by plucking the strings directly), then they broke away from the strings by using the case percussively.

If anyone wants to help me set up a concert for me to take a chainsaw to a concert grand I would be interested

I think it would start some discussion about the future of the piano.

Maybe it's already been done (probably a couple of decades ago ... ?) Anyway, worth the thought...
_________________________
Charles Lang
Working on: A Night in Tunisia; Memories of Tomorrow (Keith Jarrett).
Just started: Brazilian Like (Michel Petrucciani)

Baldwin Model R (1974), Hardman 5'9" grand (1915), Rieger-Kloss 42.5" vertical

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#170731 - 12/13/08 05:09 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Larry Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 992
Loc: Carmel, Indiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ric Overton:
This piano retails for approximately $75,000.00. I was told by my rep that is was VERY saleable. But, my requests to make the dice fuzzy was turned down.

Ric [/b]
Ric, I think fuzzy dice would make this piano look tacky.
_________________________
1995 Baldwin L grand
2001 Baldwin Hamilton upright
Yamaha S90 synthesizer
www.larrylarsonpiano.com
YouTubeChannel www.youtube.com/LarryLarsonPiano

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#170732 - 12/13/08 05:13 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10457
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry Larson:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ric Overton:
This piano retails for approximately $75,000.00. I was told by my rep that is was VERY saleable. But, my requests to make the dice fuzzy was turned down.

Ric [/b]
Ric, I think fuzzy dice would make this piano look tacky. [/b]
I think the piano give fuzzy dice a bad name! ;\)
_________________________
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Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#170733 - 12/14/08 07:52 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Roxy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Whittier, Calif
I grew up playing on a Hamilton baby grand piano and a steinway and loved both of them. The case of the Hamilton was a beautiful maple brown exquisitly scrolled french provincial style legs, case, and bench. I now own a 5'8" Baldwin grand model R. I like it very well it has a very full sound with beautiful overtones. I am sorry to hear that Baldwin has gone away. The industry is loosing a wonderful instrument maker.

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#170734 - 12/15/08 03:37 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
radaddict Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 63
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Okay, prediction (ie. wild guess) time... If you want to know the future of Baldwin pianos, look at what Gibson is doing with their Epiphone line of guitars.

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#170735 - 12/15/08 04:16 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10457
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Roxy:
I grew up playing on a Hamilton baby grand piano and a steinway and loved both of them. The case of the Hamilton was a beautiful maple brown exquisitly scrolled french provincial style legs, case, and bench. I now own a 5'8" Baldwin grand model R. I like it very well it has a very full sound with beautiful overtones. I am sorry to hear that Baldwin has gone away. The industry is loosing a wonderful instrument maker. [/b]
Again, Baldwin is still in business. They have NOT simply gone away, at least not yet.

They closed the Truman, Arkansas plate, but still own production facilities in China.
_________________________
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www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#170736 - 12/15/08 05:23 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5573
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Cohen:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Roxy:
I am sorry to hear that Baldwin has gone away. The industry is loosing a wonderful instrument maker. [/b]
Again, Baldwin is still in business. They have NOT simply gone away, at least not yet.

They closed the Truman, Arkansas plate, but still own production facilities in China. [/b]
I've heard the same thing that Steve says from others in the industry. Baldwin is not gone, only their Arkansas plant.

I imagine we will hear more news, hopefully in the near future. Kinda hoping someone from Baldwin and/or Gibson might join in.

It doesn appear however that we have lost another US piano facility. And then there were 3.
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#170737 - 12/16/08 07:16 AM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4288
Loc: Cincinnati
If they can produce commensurate quality and the same designs elsewhere and keep the brand going, well, so be it. What we mourn is the loss of American made pianos, not the loss of Baldwin itself.
_________________________
Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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#170738 - 12/16/08 10:41 AM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Swell-Schimmel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 157
Loc: Las Vegas
[/qb][/QUOTE]Again, Baldwin is still in business. They have NOT simply gone away, at least not yet.

They closed the Truman, Arkansas plate, but still own production facilities in China. [/QB][/QUOTE]

That has a sound like Harley Davidson is still in business but using a new plant in China. It is not as much as Baldwin is out of business as it is that Baldwin is not an American made piano after this IMHO.

Scott
_________________________
1987 6'10" Schimmel C-208.

Scott
Las Vegas, NV

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#170739 - 12/16/08 11:25 AM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1250
Loc:
Those paint schemes are soooo electric guitar like ... they're using the same strategy for 1000 usd electric guitars and for 75k pianos? That doesn't sound too smart.

Anyway, remeber teh Fender guitar company was sold to CBS in the late 60s. Quality and sales both went down until CBS re-sold it to a pool of former employees in the 80s ...

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#170740 - 12/16/08 11:28 AM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by izaldu:
Those paint schemes are soooo electric guitar like ... they're using the same strategy for 1000 usd electric guitars and for 75k pianos? That doesn't sound too smart.

Anyway, remeber teh Fender guitar company was sold to CBS in the late 60s. Quality and sales both went down until CBS re-sold it to a pool of former employees in the 80s ... [/b]
I've heard CBS didn't do too well with pianos, either. ;\)

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#170741 - 12/16/08 12:25 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
People keep saying it's only 100 employees and not the thousands like in other industries. Well to me it's still 100 people out of work when times are tough. \:\(

America's small businesses are the ones that support or supported our economy, and when they close, the rest of the US economy shuts down as well. This plant shutting down doesn't just affect the 100 employees in Truman, KY. There are the numerous suppliers and local businesses that grew up around the small plant that will be affected as well.

Case in point. Right now I work for a company, actually it's all that remains of a fomer Polaroid division, that employs 12 people. We all have a decent salary, good benefits, and contribute to our local economy.

This is so typical of today's businesses. Shutdown the American manufacturing plant in favor of the cheap labor overseas so the CEO can still make his 600% over the workers and still meet the stockholder's demands of ever increasing profits.

It's not like they were trying to sell inexpensive pianos either. Their "blonde" model which looked totally disgusting in my opinion was well over $30,000 when I was looking at pianos 4 years ago. If it wasn't so ugly I may have even tried it, but it's looks completely turned me off from even touching it.

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#170742 - 12/17/08 05:33 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
I have checked several times the Gibson-Baldwin website "news" link. They could put all the questions and active speculation to rest by simply putting out an official and factual press release briefly outlining their plans for their Artist Grands line. The fact that they are maintaining silence indicates that they do not want anyone knowing their intentions at the general, industry, dealer, or customer levels. But that's Gibson (especially where they know nothing of pianos). Seems like they prefer a public relations fiasco. So what else is new?

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#170743 - 12/17/08 10:27 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Ric Overton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Burbank, Ca
Okay Everyone

I AM A VERY HAPPY MAN TONIGHT

I spoke with someone in Trumann today that let me know its business as usual in the factory. Yes, the article was accurate that they did lay off people but, they have enough crew to build grands. They are doing some restructuring, and they WILL show a good line at NAMM.

Official letters and information will be sent out soon.

Thanks

Ric Overton
_________________________
Ric Overton
Ric@PianoSD.com
http://PianoSD.com

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#170744 - 12/18/08 06:49 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
That is very good news indeed. Seems though that all the angst could have been spared had Gibson been more timely and shown more PR savvy by making the appropriate announcement much sooner rather than letting speculation run wild in the meantime.

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#170745 - 12/18/08 06:56 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10457
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by RachFan:
That is very good news indeed. Seems though that all the angst could have been spared had Gibson been more timely and shown more PR savvy by making the appropriate announcement much sooner rather than letting speculation run wild in the meantime. [/b]
I couldn't agree with you more.
_________________________
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Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#170746 - 12/19/08 09:11 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
arcsound Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Troy, VA

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#170747 - 12/19/08 09:13 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
arcsound Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Troy, VA
Pathetic, and sad, as someone mentioned, (I don't understand how to quote...), that we cannot support a quality American product, even in the relatively small numbers needed to keep it in business. Surely there are enough people of means that they could pay the fare for an American-made Baldwin!? Gibson may be the horse's arse when it comes to managing their subsideries, I know they ruined the Oberheim franchise, but the main problem is the public's collective willingness to support the People's Republic of China, in our never ending search for "good deals", instead of supporting our own businesses. I don't care how good the quality has become with these communist-made instruments, I'd rather buy a solid used American-made Japanese-made or EU-made model than a new PRC piano! Don't people see what's going on, with China ascending and America waning as an economic power? Don't think that a military reversal isn't far behind, and then we can all choke on our Chinese pianos as the PRC pushes us into the dustbin of history. Sometimes a "good deal" is not so good when one considers the bigger picture.

Please, do the right thing and do not purchase Chinese goods,(including pianos....)! There are plenty of economically healthier alternatives; Japanese, German, and even a few American makes, like the Charles Walter.

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#170748 - 12/20/08 05:20 AM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Anonymous
Unregistered


Baldwin had a long history of being mis-managed, especially at the factory and service level. Even with the Gibson company at the helm now, it appears that this legacy will continue.

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#170749 - 02/11/09 09:52 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Noah Frere Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Knoxville, TN
According to the recent PTG Journal:

"...Baldwin laid off 34 employees in February 2008 in a decision to concentrate solely on manufacturing the company's line of custom-made pianos."
_________________________
Noah Frere
www.knowapiano.com
Knoxville, TN

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#170750 - 02/11/09 10:21 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Steve Marcus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 34
Loc: Chicago area
 Quote:
And then there were 3.
Steinway, Mason & Hamlin, Charles Walter.

When did Astin-Weight go out of production?


Steve Marcus
Baldwin District Sales Manager--New England and upstate New York (1985-1991)
Baldwin Chicago Retail Division Manager (1991-1994)
_________________________
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PianoForte Chicago, Inc.
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#170751 - 02/11/09 10:55 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Paul2playpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 26
Loc: St. Louis
I purchased a Baldwin Model M 5'2" grand about a year ago. It was about 1 - 2 years old when I got it. I have been very pleased. My piano teacher, who has a Yamaha baby grand, and my tuner, who was a fabulous concert pianist until he got tired of the constant travel have both indicated that they think the sound from my piano is excellent.

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#170752 - 02/11/09 11:30 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5573
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Marcus:
 Quote:
And then there were 3.
Steinway, Mason & Hamlin, Charles Walter.

When did Astin-Weight go out of production?


Steve Marcus
Baldwin District Sales Manager--New England and upstate New York (1985-1991)
Baldwin Chicago Retail Division Manager (1991-1994) [/b]
Good question Steve,

Have you visited their web site lately?
http://www.astin-weight.com/

Kinda hard to tell what they are up to.
And not looking particularly American.
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-------------------------
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And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
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#170753 - 02/12/09 12:32 AM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin
hotkeys Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 788
Loc: Massapequa, NY
Hard to believe that Baldwin shut their doors! I remember talking with the Steinway folks at the Dec 11 tour and one of the techs on the tour mentioned he and his daughter wanted to visit the Baldwin factory before it closed its doors forever.

A friend of mine who lives in West Palm Beach was very fond of Baldwin Grand pianos (she owned a 6'3" grand piano). Wonder what she is thinking now that the last Baldwin factory has closed.

Mark
_________________________
...The ultimate joy in music is the joy of playing the piano...

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#1540978 - 10/22/10 12:24 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin [Re: RachFan]
elecmuse3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 304
Loc: Cincinnati
Originally Posted By: RachFan
I totally agree on the crazy color schemes. I deeply believe that the only color that befits an upper tier grand is black--period.

If it's going to be in a home, as opposed to a venue, certainly at least in my house, a natural wood finish will match more decors and IMHO be much prettier than black.


Edited by elecmuse3 (10/22/10 01:34 PM)
Edit Reason: add final two words (as opposed to 2 cents! :/
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#1541023 - 10/22/10 01:28 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin [Re: Swell-Schimmel]
gnuboi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 2349
Loc: USA
The economics around Baldwin, USA, and China are more complicated than can be solved by consumers alone. There is the cheap and pegged exchange rate, cheap Chinese labor, stagnant US wages, diminishing US middle class (who do you think buys pianos?)... It's not realistic to just ask buyers to all buy-American and take a hit for the team (vs. shopping Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc.) while other forces encourage the Chinese industry and discourage American businesses.

I liked a used L very much and almost bought it but I came a few hours too late on my second visit. I tried a new L1 and it was very nice but pricey. Chinese pianos are big enough a luxury for families in which the adults do not play... let alone American pianos.

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#1542095 - 10/23/10 10:01 PM Re: Bye,Bye Baldwin [Re: gnuboi]
bkw58 Online   content

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1673
Loc: Conway, AR USA

Very sad about Baldwin.

Will miss the SD10.
_________________________
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Retired piano technician
Piano Technic

"Never argue with a fool, people may not be able to tell you apart." - author unknown

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