Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#1709256 - 07/07/11 06:02 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Providence]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Providence
What are your feelings say about the Kronos (German) vs say the RD700NX pianos on first impressions?

I'm not sure I'm the best one to ask. The DPBSD is more of a test for specific bad things, not sound quality per se. Others here that have hands-on experience with both should be able to help you soon. I'll try to get the review up in the next day or so.

Today FedEX brought me a bunch of stuff to finish my combo amp / speakers project so I've been spending some time on that.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
(ad) Roland

Click Here

#1709604 - 07/08/11 11:09 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: dewster]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: dewster
...I think 90% of the remaining experience is amps & speakers that are up to the task.
Nevertheless, so far only a limited number of people are willing to spend a considerable percentage of their DP budget on amps & speakers, which is a shame i.m.h.o. (at least when you're not mainly using headphones).
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

Top
#1709660 - 07/08/11 12:31 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: TADutchman]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: TADutchman
Originally Posted By: dewster
...I think 90% of the remaining experience is amps & speakers that are up to the task.
Nevertheless, so far only a limited number of people are willing to spend a considerable percentage of their DP budget on amps & speakers, which is a shame i.m.h.o. (at least when you're not mainly using headphones).


If the goal is recreating acoustic experience, it isn't just about having great speakers and amps. I have run my DPs through everything from my Mackie HR824 MK2s to my Eggleston Andra IIs coupled with a full TACT room corrected system. I can get beautiful tone and nice projection, but the way sound is produced and resonates from my Shigeru would, at the very least, require a multichannel system that is playing back a source that has multiple discrete channels.

The Avant and V-grand both take steps in this direction, however, I think they have a long way to go to be successful in the goal of recreating the acoustic experience of a grand piano. Loudspeaker technology is limiting them as well as the fact that projecting sound in a natural way is going to require more than just making sure something sounds realistic in a stereo recording. They definitely have to use different recording/modeling techniques to get optimal playback on a 2 channel v multichannel playback system.

If the goal is to get a nice, fairly realistic piano sound in stereo, I think quite a few DPs can be the foundation for creating that experience. If the goal is to recreate the acoustic experience of a grand piano, I just don't think the tools currently exist to make that happen. That being said, I don't think that should necessarily be the priority, as the acoustic experience isn't required for a musical experience.


Edited by Hideki Matsui (07/08/11 12:52 PM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

Top
#1709843 - 07/08/11 04:51 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Having spent a little more time with the Kronos, I have to say that it isn't as difficult to navigate as I would have expected. When it comes to playing with the piano and EP parameters it is pretty straightforward and accessible. The synth engines are really deep and require more knowledge.

The pianos and EPs are really enjoyable to play. The action is a non issue to me at this point. It is responsive and precise, even if clicks. I would prefer the CP1 action but am happy with Kronos action.

I'm going to start looking at the sequencer functions after the weekend, but I'm really impressed with the sound engines. This is a demo song made by Jordan Rudess with the piano engine of the Kronos. I think he has tweaked the German grand for the sound:

http://www.korg.co.uk/downloads/kronos/media/Interstices.mp3
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

Top
#1709863 - 07/08/11 05:15 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
mmmmm, I'm always getting a little nervous by these JR demo's; tingle-tangle-tang-tingle-tingle-tingle-tang rush rush rush....look how many notes I can play in a microsecond. The fact is that simply because you CAN, doesn't mean you HAVE TO...

Some more balanced classical playing of a "moderate" piece would provide for a better impression on some subtleties of a grand-piano sounds than these nervous blocks of improvisations IMHO. Nevertheless great technique ...as always, but boring.

On topic; Kronos piano technology will of course trickle down on other Korg products like DP's and SV's and such some day. Probably not too long before that happens, because the DP range is already quite old. Hope they upgrade the keybeds then too.

Top
#1709886 - 07/08/11 06:07 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
The Avant and V-grand both take steps in this direction, however, I think they have a long way to go to be successful in the goal of recreating the acoustic experience of a grand piano. Loudspeaker technology is limiting them as well as the fact that projecting sound in a natural way is going to require more than just making sure something sounds realistic in a stereo recording.

It could also be that the reinforcement they are doing isn't entirely up to snuff. We've all seen what's inside of the average $1000 - $2000 DPs: small amps coupled to very inexpensive drivers with poor acoustic treatment. I don't know the first thing about what's in the AG, but it wouldn't shock me if we found its speakers retailing for $5 a pop.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1709894 - 07/08/11 06:41 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: JFP]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
I'm not a fan of DT or JR, but I think you can piano quite a bit in the demo. As soon as I get to the sequencer I'll post some stuff that displays far less technical proficiency.

Originally Posted By: JFP
mmmmm, I'm always getting a little nervous by these JR demo's; tingle-tangle-tang-tingle-tingle-tingle-tang rush rush rush....look how many notes I can play in a microsecond. The fact is that simply because you CAN, doesn't mean you HAVE TO...

Some more balanced classical playing of a "moderate" piece would provide for a better impression on some subtleties of a grand-piano sounds than these nervous blocks of improvisations IMHO. Nevertheless great technique ...as always, but boring.

On topic; Kronos piano technology will of course trickle down on other Korg products like DP's and SV's and such some day. Probably not too long before that happens, because the DP range is already quite old. Hope they upgrade the keybeds then too.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

Top
#1709902 - 07/08/11 07:03 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: dewster]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
The Avant and V-grand both take steps in this direction, however, I think they have a long way to go to be successful in the goal of recreating the acoustic experience of a grand piano. Loudspeaker technology is limiting them as well as the fact that projecting sound in a natural way is going to require more than just making sure something sounds realistic in a stereo recording.

It could also be that the reinforcement they are doing isn't entirely up to snuff. We've all seen what's inside of the average $1000 - $2000 DPs: small amps coupled to very inexpensive drivers with poor acoustic treatment. I don't know the first thing about what's in the AG, but it wouldn't shock me if we found its speakers retailing for $5 a pop.


Speaker quality and amp quality are easy to address. The thing that distinguishes the AG (and V- grand) is that they are trying to recreate some of the dimensional aspects of a acoustic grand by providing multiple discrete channels that are being processed and output through discrete channels. You just aren't going to be able to reproduce the way an acoustic grand projects sound with a two channel source and speaker setup. It isn't really very different from trying to get surround sound from something that was recorded in 2 channels and is being played back through a stereo speaker setup.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

Top
#1709920 - 07/08/11 08:38 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Finally got to play the Kronos at Sam Ash in Hollyweird, but just the 61. I'll probably feel more excited about it after I play the 73/88. It was a pretty underwhelming experience AP wise. I was mostly focused on the 3 Roland DPs like I mentioned in that other thread and then noticed the kronos 61 over in corner. So playing the German Grand from a synth action was almost laughable. I'm sure it will be more positive playing the 73/88.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

Top
#1709990 - 07/09/11 12:10 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dave Ferris]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Finally got to play the Kronos at Sam Ash in Hollyweird, but just the 61. I'll probably feel more excited about it after I play the 73/88. It was a pretty underwhelming experience AP wise. I was mostly focused on the 3 Roland DPs like I mentioned in that other thread and then noticed the kronos 61 over in corner. So playing the German Grand from a synth action was almost laughable. That and the Herbie EP sounded good for sure but all the "other stuff"---sorry but I've come to a point in my life where all that is just sleep sleep

I'm sure it will be more positive playing the 73/88.


Yeah, when I first played the 61 it was really strange trying to play piano with a synth action. It felt like the sound was disconnected from the action. The RH3 obviously gives you a totally different experience. I really never got into the SV1 because of the action, but the sounds on the Kronos really overcome any shortcomings of the RH3 for me.

I'm not sure that the Kronos is right for you. Even though the pianos and EPs are great, you would end paying for a ton of technology you don't need. I will say that anyone looking for a workstation should get some time in with the Kronos because it is the legendary OASYS with new sound engines and more power.

Personally, I find the pianos on the Kronos to have the most organic sound of any DP I have played. I'm not sure it is enough to justify buying a workstation if you are looking for a DP, but it is certainly a pretty amazing creative tool.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

Top
#1721989 - 07/27/11 06:24 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dave Ferris]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The guy I deal with might be behind the curve in getting the 88/73 but his prices are much better then MF, GC, SW, etc.


Getting a little impatient over here so I called my guy today. He relayed to me what the Korg rep just told him-- unless you pre-ordered a 73/88 (I didn't) , you're looking at MAYBE Sept. or Oct. till they get somewhat caught up. He said there are only a hundred units coming into the US every month while there are hundreds of back orders. frown

I guess my joking remark about touching one around Halloween wasn't too far off the mark. Maybe I'll push that back to Thanksgiving now...cry
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

Top
#1733251 - 08/15/11 12:39 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dave Ferris]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Well FINALLY got to play the K88 at the GC in Hollyweird today.

In a nutshell--it's not for me. Very disappointing since I've been waiting 7.5 months to check it out, listening to every demo on youtube and reading a zillion posts on how it's the greatest thing. Maybe it is for many people that are more into synths, organ, rhodes and drum sounds then AP substitutes.

For me at this point in my musical journey, all of the aforementioned sounds, not to mention the genres of music that utilizes all of this stuff are simply not on my musical radar anymore.

I guess I'm more a purist or a dinosaur, however you want to look at it but I'm simply only interested in playing the piano in more of an Acoustic based style such as Jazz, light Classical or sub-genres of those styles.

The Kronos piano did sound very good but again that musical connection, that's hard to verbalize (at least for me), just was simply not there , even on the Dark German Grand. Forget that Japanese Grand--that about tore my head/ears off through the my AKG 240 phones. I guess it's somewhat related to their RH3 action but to tell the truth, I briefly went over to an SV-1 88 and as crazy as this might sound-actually dug the playing experience more. So go figure.

The K piano had a hard edged, harsh quality to it while playing even though it sounded really big and super hi-fi in the phones. I'm certain it will sound killer in more aggressive R&B, Rock and Fusion settings in the band while playing live--but again, I must be really mellowing in my older age as it wasn't my thing.

I kept playing the K88 and then rotating between the CP5, 700 & 300 NX, Nord Stage 2 88 (first time playing that), SV-1 88 , P155, MOX8 and S90XS. Again for pure piano playing experience they all smoked the Kronos imo.

Every time I played the CP5, it was like my inner musical voice was saying--yes, this is right, this is home base, this is me. The CP5 had more of an Acoustic vibe to it where the Kronos had more of an electronic, in your face kinda sound. I had the same reaction getting on the 700NX which was right next to the K88-the flagship Roland was just more expressive and had that more Acoustic/organic feeling as opposed to maybe a too cutting edge sound (?) of the Korg. Again this stuff is hard for me to verbalize folks. I'm not a writer but a player. But I do know instantly (most of the time laugh ) if something's right or wrong for me.

For rhodes folks, this your ax ! I've owned 3 in my life and this is as close as it gets. For me, it's simply--ok great rhodes, who cares...

So for the average keyboard player guy reading this, the reaction is probably--aw this guy's nuts, what's he talkin' about ! But maybe for pianists who do more of what I do, they can relate.

I had high hopes for the K88 or 73 has an alternative to always bringing the CP5. Maybe if they dumb it down to an SV-2 I could see it would be cool to have--but as is, too much stuff I won't use and more importantly--don't wanna have to use. I simply just want to play the piano....

So where do I turn ? Maybe the Nord Piano again. I'll definitely have lower expectations going in. I'll be looking at it more from a portability stand point then an expressive instrument where I can play and sound at my best.


Edited by Dave Ferris (08/15/11 01:06 AM)
Edit Reason: added and changed thought
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

Top
#1733257 - 08/15/11 01:17 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Interesting post Dave, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1733263 - 08/15/11 01:40 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Kawai James]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Hey they hate me over at the Kronos forum because I love my Jupiter and am not overly impressed with my Kronos. Even on the synth end I prefer my Rolands and soft synths. I still love the EPs, but I have grown to prefer my SN piano sounds.


Edited by Hideki Matsui (08/15/11 03:13 AM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

Top
#1733271 - 08/15/11 01:58 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3340
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Hey they hate me over at the Kronos forum because I love my Jupiter and am not overly impressed with my Kronos. Even on the synth end I prefer my Rolands and soft synths. I still love the EPs, but I have grime to prefer my SN piano sounds.


Well, you did buy it - you must have been impressed at some stage!

I'm developing a theory about the way us "electronic" guys keep changing our minds about their gear. I might start a new thread about it in the next few days.

Top
#1733288 - 08/15/11 03:26 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: ando]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Hey they hate me over at the Kronos forum because I love my Jupiter and am not overly impressed with my Kronos. Even on the synth end I prefer my Rolands and soft synths. I still love the EPs, but I have grime to prefer my SN piano sounds.


Well, you did buy it - you must have been impressed at some stage!

I'm developing a theory about the way us "electronic" guys keep changing our minds about their gear. I might start a new thread about it in the next few days.


Great pianos and EPs in a workstation. That hasn't really changed. I always knew the action wasn't great and thought build quality sucked from the beginning. But, the action has started to annoy me and the GUI and tactile interface make woking with it irritating.
It's hard to judge those things until you have some time with it.

I don't know that I change my mind that much regarding my gear. I think in the case of the Kronos, buying the Jupiter and a robust Mac setup highlighted some of the Kronos' shortcomings, but I was concerned with the action and build quality when I bought it.

Also, I'm really an acoustic guy.


Edited by Hideki Matsui (08/15/11 03:27 AM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

Top
#1733293 - 08/15/11 03:53 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3340
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I'll buy it off you for half price... wink

Top
#1733345 - 08/15/11 07:52 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2331
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Very interesting observations....

As has often been demonstrated with sample libraries - despite a trillion gigabytes, you still have to relate to it on some sort of level (a really instinctive, emotional level) that doesn't seem all that dependent on the specs actually. I relate to the Nord better than I did to the Roland SN - whilst accepting that SN is significantly superior in some technical aspects. Now the AG suits me even better because the Nord gives you all it's got too easily - certainly not a criticism of the sounds, more perhaps the velocity curve and/or the keys.

The Kronos is out for me due to the key action and just the fact it does so much more than I could ever want. The Nord is a really nicely focused 'board - nothing unnecessary about it - but I might have to go out and get some real quality time in on an MP10 and CP5 some day. I've previously been a critic of Yamaha but really getting into the AG and a CP33 I currently also own has made me appreciate what Yamaha does much more than I ever did before (AG and CP33 are completely different by the way, but both are satisfying to connect with).

It's a shame there is a level of disappointment with the Kronos because for a while it looked like it might be the answer for a lot of folks - no doubt it is for some of course but it goes to prove once again that gigabytes do not necessarily make for a better experience.

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

Top
#1733414 - 08/15/11 10:39 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1420
Steve, I'll be honest with you, having hooked up the NP88 to the N1, not just the Electro which doesn't have the details in the piano voices of the NP88 like string/sympathetic resonance, there is nothing left in the DP world that will impress me. I've got the best action available in any DP, and IMHO the most organic, playable, and varied acoustic piano sounds available in a DP. Like you said, the search is over. I've played all the major players, Kronos included, and everything else seems to get bland after a while. Never the case with the NP88, and if I get tired of playing the N1, then I'd be tired of playing an acoustic, because that thing is a real joy to play.

I actually just took my NP88 to a gig yesterday, and it was the first time I've played on it in 3 weeks, outside of hooking it up to the N1, and I was having so much fun. I look at it differently now, and I actually quite enjoyed the action, and the killer piano sounds. I've NEVER received the compliments from FOH guys before like I do with the NP88. It's a unique instrument in an otherwise seemingly bland field of players. This is no discredit to the MP10, RD-700NX, CP5, SV-1, Kronos, etc., it's just they're all improved versions of what's already been here. The NP88 seems to have brought something refreshing with Nord's approach to building a stage piano.


Edited by ZacharyForbes (08/15/11 10:43 AM)
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

Top
#1733481 - 08/15/11 01:08 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2331
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I'm going to have to try NP with AG controlling it...due to my living arrangements I can't link them up permanently...but for an occasional play I'll probably get away with it! And no doubt I'll share your enthusiasm for the combination.

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

Top
#1733484 - 08/15/11 01:12 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3076
In all of these more sophisticated boards, buying them is something of a leap of faith. It takes many hours, days, if not weeks of auditioning, tinkering, and using it for different purposes, to fully get a handle on what works for you and what doesn't. That's one of the nice things about buying from a place that has a 30-60 day return policy.

I like my Kronos. Not as much as I hoped/expected to, but enough to keep it. I'm not using it for piano, though. I agree with Dave about the superiority of all those Yamaha boards, and probably the Roland (at least the 700) and Nord, when it comes to strictly piano playing, whether because of sound, action, or both. I'm keeping the Kronos primarily for its organ and sample loading functions. I do agree its EP sounds are great, too. I might get into some of its VA capabilities, I really haven't played with that at all yet. And I do like the Set List functionality.

Top
#1734549 - 08/16/11 07:14 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dave Ferris]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The K piano had a hard edged, harsh quality to it while playing ......


I had a chance to play the K88 yet again today at the GC in Sherman Oaks after a short recording session. I did like it a bit more then the other day--enough to want to remove the adjective *harsh* from my post. It's not harsh, just...maybe lackluster ? Not the German Grand sample, that is without question excellent. I'm speaking of the sound to action connection and the expressibility for me. Again I went over to a nearby 700nx, CP5 and MOX8 for comparison and again in all cases, for a straight piano playing connection, I would opt for the CP5, 700NX and MoX8--in that order.

And also again, fwiw and imo. smile
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

Top
#1734697 - 08/16/11 10:51 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dave Ferris]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
I'm not getting much love over at the Kronos forum. Perhaps I am being a bit too critical of the Kronos, but when I look down at my action and I see this mess, what can I say? Acceptable or not? I say not.




[/quote]
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

Top
#1734764 - 08/17/11 12:17 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: EssBrace]
kippesc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 396
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: EssBrace


Now the AG suits me even better because the Nord gives you all it's got too easily - certainly not a criticism of the sounds, more perhaps the velocity curve and/or the keys.



You have to pound the living daylights out of the AG (in my case, an N2) to hit velocity 127. It's scary how hard you have to hit the keys -- ffff, I would say. (Think NBA basketball slam dunk or Jerry Lee Lewis heel on the keyboard.) I have found that, in using Ivory, I generally have to set the top of the velocity curve at about 112, which increases the slope of a nearly linear "curve," in order to get a realistic response.

By contrast, you get to 127 pretty easily on a Roland RD-700NX. I'm not a big pounder of the piano, so it's fine with me that the Roland doesn't go to fff.

I would guess that Yamaha AG N2 velocity-110 equals Roland RD-700NX velocity-127.


Edited by kippesc (08/17/11 12:19 AM)
_________________________
Steinway B
Yamaha AvantGrand N2
Roland RD-700NX

Top
#1734772 - 08/17/11 12:23 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 319
You are correct in everything you said over there Hideki. They are being a little sensitive. Most of them are keyboard players. You are both a keyboard player and a pianist.

I played a 61 this weekend and yes the screen blows. Not doubt about that. My big fingers would not like that screen. My Triton was much better than that. I couldn't hear myself in GC to really listen to the Kronos so I gave up.

No worries Man!

Top
#1734777 - 08/17/11 12:31 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: PianoZac]
kippesc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 396
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Steve, I'll be honest with you, having hooked up the NP88 to the N1, not just the Electro which doesn't have the details in the piano voices of the NP88 like string/sympathetic resonance, there is nothing left in the DP world that will impress me. I've got the best action available in any DP, and IMHO the most organic, playable, and varied acoustic piano sounds available in a DP. Like you said, the search is over. I've played all the major players, Kronos included, and everything else seems to get bland after a while. Never the case with the NP88, and if I get tired of playing the N1, then I'd be tired of playing an acoustic, because that thing is a real joy to play.



If you get a chance to try the N1 with the Ivory Steinway or Ivory Fazioli, you may like that a lot too. I've never played a Nord, but when I A/B the AG internal samples against the Ivory Steinway (controlled with the AG), the contrast is dramatic and strongly favors Ivory. It is, however, very important to get the velocity curve set correctly. These days I cap the velocity at 112 and increase the "hardness" of the curve to 5 or 10 percent. And the buffer needs to be dropped from the default 512 to 256.

I know there are a lot of AG lovers on this forum, but for me that machine is primarily a MIDI controller these days (and a truly great one, mind you). Ivory and the Roland RD-700NX have more satisfying and less artificial AP sound.
_________________________
Steinway B
Yamaha AvantGrand N2
Roland RD-700NX

Top
#1734822 - 08/17/11 02:41 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dave Ferris]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Well FINALLY got to play the K88 at the GC in Hollyweird today.



The Kronos piano did sound very good but again that musical connection, that's hard to verbalize (at least for me), just was simply not there ,

.


But no matter how you look at it the sound of the Kronos is excellent Dave IMHO .The weird "vibe" of the Kronos when playing AP is to do with the action and connection and its a issue that isn't as bad with the SV-1 possibly because of the superior sounds in the Kronos. The action is a poor AP substitute rather then trying to be a great action that isn't directly trying to mimic a AP (like the CP1/5 which is a GREAT action ...graded or not). I must admit the build quality issues and the action bring the Kronos down but the EP/AP/Organs ans Synth engines do sound fantastic. It's not a board I'd use to replace say a XF8 because it doesn't "feel" great but it sure sounds great. We can't have everything I guess.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

Top
#1734823 - 08/17/11 02:45 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I'm not getting much love over at the Kronos forum. Perhaps I am being a bit too critical of the Kronos, but when I look down at my action and I see this mess, what can I say? Acceptable or not? I say not.



That is quite simply a DISGRACE !!!!!
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

Top
#1734846 - 08/17/11 03:57 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dr Popper]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

But no matter how you look at it the sound of the Kronos is excellent Dave IMHO .We can't have everything I guess.


Like I said today DP
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
It's not harsh, just...maybe lackluster ? Not the German Grand sample, that is without question excellent. I'm speaking of the sound to action connection and the expressibility for me.


I agree 110% the sound is special. But like I said in my first post, it's not special enough for me, being more of a pianist , doing more acoustic type gigs, to warrant laying out $3500 on synth/organ/etc features that have no relevance to my preference to try to stay out of the pop/R&R/RnB world. For the latter applications, it's arguably the best thing going right now, no question.

I also agree we can't have everything... smile
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

Top
#1735003 - 08/17/11 10:55 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 319
Build quality aside... Here are some new youtube posts of the Kronos AP only. German and Japanese:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXkIEXLxp0w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrzlzlQcdo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2t5j9vGu9A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k97hcPUVv4&feature=related

Maybe I should get myself a 61 and drive the board with my MP10... smile

Top
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
78 registered (36251, ando, Alux, anotherscott, 21 invisible), 1142 Guests and 47 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74250 Members
42 Forums
153599 Topics
2251193 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Happy Easter!
by Marko in Boston
44 minutes 52 seconds ago
Easter Themed Recordings - Kawai CA95
by wolferblade
Today at 04:55 AM
First recordings - Some music for Easter
by wolferblade
Today at 01:01 AM
Recorded a song on my workstation tonight
by Arizona Sage
Today at 12:04 AM
How to tune a piano.....
by Grandpianoman
Yesterday at 11:46 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission