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#1752235 - 09/14/11 01:17 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: PianoZac]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
I was able to play the Kronos 88 at the Sherman Oaks GC. This was the first time I'd heard it through quality speakers, my previous listenings had always been with my 240 headphones.

They had a pair of Dynaudio BM5A-MK IIs hooked up to the K88. I'm a fan of the Dyns, I own the BM6A-MK IIs.

The playing and listening experience was quite different then the phones. I concentrated only on the German Piano and the all the different Rhodes and wurli variations-there are quite a few. The sound was more flattering then the phones for a change. The rhodes seemed to have a bigger, more realistic sound, it definitely felt more *alive* and just fun to play. Very impressive for sure. Since EP's characteristics react sonically different then APs, the RH3 action was well suited and the player connection was excellent I felt, no complaints. I saw a few gaps in the key spacing and a few uneven keys but overall no problems physically playing the thing, really smooth--who knows how it will be in a year down the road or less if you're taking it out for gigs.

The APs were excellent which has been stated often now. The player connection seemed better through the speakers too although still on the sterile side for my taste. I will say, just from playing it in the store, the Kronos APs would work well enough to do a jazz trio gig with.

Although I say that with reservations having been bitten too many times in the past by that feeling of euphoria in the store, and even in my studio, with the chosen instrument for a week--only to be disappointed half way through the first set of a Friday night gig with a real rhythm section.

If we could fast forward to this time next year I would be very into a watered down Kronos or SV-2 with those EP & AP sounds if they do go that route with their current technology. As it stands right now and as I've mentioned a few times, there are still too many features on the Kronos I will never use and don't want to pay premium dollars for.

If anyone in the LA area wants to check out the Kronos with good monitors, I'd recommend a trip to the Sherman Oaks GC. Probably best during the week in the early to late mornings to avoid the usual sonic onslaught that is common at these kind of places.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#1752241 - 09/14/11 01:32 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dave Ferris]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Well when its released I expect you to buy it ;-)


Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


If we could fast forward to this time next year I would be very into a watered down Kronos or SV-2 with those EP & AP sounds if they do go that route with their current technology. As it stands right now and as I've mentioned a few times, there are still too many features on the Kronos I will never use and don't want to pay premium dollars for.

_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1752305 - 09/14/11 07:02 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dr Popper]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Well when its released I expect you to buy it ;-)


Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


If we could fast forward to this time next year I would be very into a watered down Kronos or SV-2 with those EP & AP sounds if they do go that route with their current technology. As it stands right now and as I've mentioned a few times, there are still too many features on the Kronos I will never use and don't want to pay premium dollars for.


There'll likely be a couple of lightly used DPs for sale in Oregon when the SV-2 makes its appearance!

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#1752324 - 09/14/11 08:21 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
And possibly an Electro 3 in Hamamatsu...

Dr P, any beans you're prepared to spill about the SV-2?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1752334 - 09/14/11 08:47 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Kawai James]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
After 3 months of using the Kronos, I have to say that I am really not that impressed. EPs have been great since day 1 and that hasn't changed, but I have become a little less enamored with the piano sounds. RH3 is perfectly playable but not what I would want on my primary DP. Synth engines are deep but also have a distinct Korg sound. The rest of the sounds are not so good compared to my other boards and software.

In any case, I am holding on to the Kronos until Roland or Yamaha rolls out their next workstation but I think buying the Kronos isn't a great choice for those primarily interested in a stage piano... Definitely wait for the SV2.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1752343 - 09/14/11 09:07 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Interesting to read your thoughts Hideki...and has it really been three months?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1752349 - 09/14/11 09:25 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Kawai James]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Interesting to read your thoughts Hideki...and has it really been three months?

James
x


Just about. More like 2 1/2.

I think some people will love the Kronos, but for me, it just doesn't sound spectacular across the board. Some areas are really strong, but other areas sound really average for a workstation. I also feel that a board costing almost $4k should reflect a better design and build quality.

I think buying the Jupiter around the same time didn't do the Kronos any favors. As different as they are, there is something about the the sound and playability of the Jupiter that makes the kronos feel a bit dull in comparison.

The Kronos does have some great vintage keyboard sounds which would port over very nicely in a SV2.


Edited by Hideki Matsui (09/14/11 09:25 AM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1752357 - 09/14/11 09:46 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3076
To me, the Kronos strengths are the Set List feature, the CX3 organ, the EPs, and the prospect of being able to store tons of custom multi-level samples on its SSD for quick access. Possibly all the VA synth stuff too... my own needs are such that I haven't really gotten into that yet. To my ears, piano is not a Kronos strength. I find the Kronos pianos merely adequate. Despite their technical inferiorities, I find numerous other hardware pianos more musical, more satisfying to play.

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#1752359 - 09/14/11 09:53 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: anotherscott]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
To me, the Kronos strengths are the Set List feature, the CX3 organ, the EPs, and the prospect of being able to store tons of custom multi-level samples on its SSD for quick access. Possibly all the VA synth stuff too... my own needs are such that I haven't really gotten into that yet. To my ears, piano is not a Kronos strength. I find the Kronos pianos merely adequate. Despite their technical inferiorities, I find numerous other hardware pianos more musical, more satisfying to play.
.

Set list and smooth transition are great live tools. I think the Kronos has very strong sounds for the live player... Just remember to keep your cardboard spacer inserts for transport.

I'm with you on the pianos... I prefer the SN pianos at this point. EPs are still my favorite and probably the one reason I am reluctant to part with the Kronos. I'm not much of an organ guy so I can't comment there.



Edited by Hideki Matsui (09/14/11 09:53 AM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1752369 - 09/14/11 10:25 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1420
I played the Kronos 88 yesterday at GC, and the RH3 action seemed ok to play, but the key spacing was obvious all over the place. The APs sound good, but no better than the APs inside my N1. I had to restart the Kronos and good grief that thing takes longer than my Macs to restart!!

As for the SV-2, that would be a sweet board. I played the SV-1 73 yesterday, and if there's a couple boards out there I'd consider getting rid of my NE3 61 for, it'd be the SV-1 73 and NE3HP. The SV-1 73 has such a cool vibe, looks killer, sounds killer, and works live from what I can tell in YouTube videos (though, that's not the best judge). I have serious GAS for the SV-1 73 for some reason. laugh
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1752427 - 09/14/11 12:45 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: PianoZac]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
........ I had to restart the Kronos and good grief that thing takes longer than my Macs to restart!!

As for the SV-2, that would be a sweet board. ........ I have serious GAS for the SV-1 73 for some reason. laugh


Yeah that long startup issue is another huge negative for me. I know guys are starting to carry small power conditioners (or whatever they're called) with them but I don't want to have to mess with that anymore then I would using a laptop and software pianos.

Again I was playing the SV-1 yesterday in conjunction with the K88 and it still holds its own quite well I feel ; especially if you add those soundpack 2 sounds. It's a big improvement over the original EP & APs not to mention the organs, strings and even a few misc. synth sounds.

It's too bad the build quality and QC issues on the SV-1 seem much worse then the Kronos. I personally never had any problems but then I didn't own the SV-1 for any extended period of time. However if you go on the Korg forum under the SV1 section, it's littered with everything from start up problems to sticking or noisy keys to output noises to........

I think it would be a bad time to invest in a brand new one considering all of that history plus it's in the middle or probably near the end of its product life. Korg doesn't seem to be too concerned with it right now. They made their initial dough off of it and will probably continue to sell units to people who don't read internet keyboard forums.

I could see picking up one used but in mint shape. There was a 73 on CL that the guy said was barely played, he was asking $1200 for it. I saw an 88 that wasn't on there too long for $1500. So there still is interest in the SV-1. If I could find a mint 73 for $1000 to $1100 I might be tempted to jump on it myself.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#1752430 - 09/14/11 12:56 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1420
I love my NP88 more than any board I've ever owned by a long shot, but sometimes I'm tempted to just down size my gigging rig to one board, and since the NP88 is a one trick pony, a really good one albeit, I've been thinking of going to possibly the NE3HP. I'd get the latest tech from Nord, good hammer action, organs, synths, strings, Sample and Piano Libraries, updates, etc. with light weight and enough key range to play most of what I play no problem. I'd say I rarely play the top octave on my NP88/N1 so I may not miss that. The only problem with the NE3HP is it's RAM is so limited, I could never use an XL sample, and could only have one Lrg Bosie/S4 sample and one Lrg C7/Steinway D sample, and a couple Rhodes/Wurly. I'd problem go forward with the NE3HP if it had another 100MB of RAM.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1752445 - 09/14/11 01:41 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 531
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
what happens to all these boards people buy and return? everybody who posts here seems to have owned every board at some point in time, and returned 90% of them. must be a huge refurbished/ b stock market in these things. UPS loves all of you dearly


Hideki...seems like you have entered the user/listener fatigue stage of ownership. you think you might come out of it in a couple months? I admit that when you started touting Kronos- i went to the website and listened to the AP demos and I didnt get any spine tingles- which i have felt with the NP88 if the website demos are accurate...anyway, it seems like we all create a certain suspension of disbelief that makes us love these keyboards when we first get them, and its inevitable that it fades away and we stare at the warts for awhile. I am also growing weary of reading how everything works for "Live Performance" when the bloom comes off the rose for solo playing and possible recording (which is why i think you have to stay in the sweet spot of price/performance and not overpay for the shiniest, newest keyboard-like i did with the v-piano)...

Zachary- say it ain't so. You've been the NP88's biggest supporter! be careful with the velocity curve on the NE3- it may be too fast for less aggressive acoustic piano...
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1752452 - 09/14/11 01:50 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1420
Bruce, yeah I'm not parting with the NP88 anytime soon. I just like the idea of downsizing. My priorities really changed after I got the AvantGrand N1. Now that I have virtually an acoustic grand to practice and build technique on, the need for having an 88 key board is less important as is the need for having the closest thing to an acoustic piano action. Something that is light light light, sounds good live, plays well, offers flexibility, and offers the sounds I use gigging personally and accompanying others is what I was thinking.

Don't worry, I'm not getting rid of the NP88 anytime soon...unless Nord pull a fast one and offer an NE3HP with 300MB+ RAM at Winter NAMM. wink


Edited by ZacharyForbes (09/14/11 01:51 PM)
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1752488 - 09/14/11 03:33 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: PianoZac]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Bfb.... I do still think the piano sounds are great, however I bought the Jupiter shortly thereafter and really appreciate the nuances of the SN pianos.

I still love the EPs.

The action is perfectly playable, but construction is average at best. Overall construction isn't really what I would want in a gigging board, but due care should prevent damage.

My view of the Kronos was somewhat affected by the Jupiter and it's superb design/build and great sound quality across the board.

I still think the Kronos is the best workstation currently available, but I also know it will get sold as soon as Roland announces their next workstation.


Edited by Hideki Matsui (09/14/11 03:44 PM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1752553 - 09/14/11 05:55 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3340
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Hideki, I found your comments about the Kronos having a certain "Korg" sound interesting - and I do agree with you there. But I also find there is a very distinct Roland sound in all their gear too. I think it comes down to which brand floats your boat more. The good news is that both companies are still improving their sound quality. Roland definitely wins on build quality though - with the notable exception of the ivory-touch keys problem.

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#1752558 - 09/14/11 06:07 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: ando]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 786
Originally Posted By: ando
Hideki, I found your comments about the Kronos having a certain "Korg" sound interesting - and I do agree with you there. But I also find there is a very distinct Roland sound in all their gear too. I think it comes down to which brand floats your boat more. The good news is that both companies are still improving their sound quality. Roland definitely wins on build quality though - with the notable exception of the ivory-touch keys problem.



Definitely. When it comes to synths each brand has it's own sound. I do think that the Jupiter offers some unique abilities because of it's structure, however, the Korg synth engines are deep and excellent.

That being said, when comes to many other areas, I think the Kronos definitely has a distinctly dated sound compared to the Jupiter. The Kronos' lifeless samples simply can't compete with the dynamic nature of many SN sounds.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1752732 - 09/15/11 03:21 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3340
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
It will definitely be interesting when Roland releases its next workstation - if they include the SN pianos, the PHA III action and the synth features from the Jupiter 80, I'll slap my money down right now. That would be a dream machine. What are the chances of them including all that, do you think?

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#1752866 - 09/15/11 09:58 AM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Speedy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 27
Loc: Alabama
The new sound-set of programs and combis for the Kronos should make things interesting.

http://korg.com/go.aspx?kronos_sounds


Edited by Speedy (09/15/11 10:07 AM)

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#1752991 - 09/15/11 02:13 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: Dave Ferris]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1420
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


I could see picking up one used but in mint shape. There was a 73 on CL that the guy said was barely played, he was asking $1200 for it. I saw an 88 that wasn't on there too long for $1500. So there still is interest in the SV-1. If I could find a mint 73 for $1000 to $1100 I might be tempted to jump on it myself.


Dave I just listened to the SP2 audio demos for the SV-1 and I'm impressed. Definitely a step up from the SP1 sounds. The SV-1 73 is so tempting...
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1752999 - 09/15/11 02:27 PM Re: Kronos is out! [Re: PianoZac]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


I could see picking up one used but in mint shape. There was a 73 on CL that the guy said was barely played, he was asking $1200 for it. I saw an 88 that wasn't on there too long for $1500. So there still is interest in the SV-1. If I could find a mint 73 for $1000 to $1100 I might be tempted to jump on it myself.


Dave I just listened to the SP2 audio demos for the SV-1 and I'm impressed. Definitely a step up from the SP1 sounds. The SV-1 73 is so tempting...


Zachary, you're getting my disease! It's a very slippery slope... wink

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