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#1712956 - 07/14/11 12:51 AM What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
I found a local dealer that carries Kawai DPs and asked them to quote the MP10 for me two weeks ago. A salesman made two phone calls to me. The first time the salesman told me it's 2500 CAD + tax including a stand and a bench, I complained about the tax and told him I'll think about it.

The second time the same saleman told me he talked to his manager and they might cover part of the tax. He also asked me to drop by the store today because both he and his manager would be there.

Today I took half day off travelled a long way to the store, only to find his manager wasn't there. The salesman told me they couldn't neither cover any tax, nor bring the price down. What was worse, they no longer offer the bench and the stand!

I'm not good at bargain. Is this a trick that dealers usually play? Should I still buy from them?

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#1712959 - 07/14/11 01:08 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
AlphaTerminus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 549
Loc: Iowa, USA
No, don't buy a thing from them.
_________________________
Lessons since September 2009
Yamaha C6

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#1713025 - 07/14/11 04:01 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
Can't believe they don't keep their word. They are the only official dealer of Kawai in BC.

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#1713039 - 07/14/11 04:32 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
escape Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 14
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: sinopiano
I'm not good at bargain. Is this a trick that dealers usually play? Should I still buy from them?


It is possible that he thought that if he had you travel all the way there you would feel compelled to buy.

Bargaining does work, especially if they think you are ready to buy and they believe that you have other options. You can call them and make a counteroffer. Just talk about the final (tax included price), start from what you consider fair and subtract 100-200 CAD, then let them pretend it is impossible for a bit.

Personally, after that stunt I would be sceptical about buying from them just in case their after sales service is like that too.

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#1713065 - 07/14/11 05:50 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: AlphaTerminus]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3672
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: AlphaTerminus
No, don't buy a thing from them.
Agreed.

Anyone can lie to me once.
They won't get a second chance.

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#1713076 - 07/14/11 06:44 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: MacMacMac]
Cohenfan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 80
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Originally Posted By: AlphaTerminus
No, don't buy a thing from them.
Agreed.

Anyone can lie to me once.
They won't get a second chance.


+2

Stay away from that place.
_________________________
Self taught adult beginner since September 2009 ( Man, I REALLY need a teacher ... )
Roland HP-305

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#1713124 - 07/14/11 09:49 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
bfb Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 531
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
i agree that the tactics are deplorable- particularly since the USD has been weakening against the CAD this month (make that this decade- no wonder y'all are buying up all of arizona...). musiciansfriend.com lists MP10 at $2499 USD. exchange rate for is 1.04+ USD for CAD 1.0..so that's about CAD 2400?ish... musiciansfriend ships to Canada-why don't you see what you can do online?.. or work out the deal online and print it out and then call the idior err.. salesman back and make him match it. does Canada tax internet purchases?

main problem is the board is brand new and there isn't a lot of inventory out there yet - so its hard to have any leverage over someone who actually has one to sell

anyway, everything in life is negotiable.
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1713125 - 07/14/11 09:50 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
They sound terrible, the problem with Kawai is they have fewer dealers and if your local dealer is a bad one they have no incentive to improve because of the lack of competition.
I'd be looking to buy online, choose a store with a good return policy.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1713199 - 07/14/11 11:44 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
What the salesman did was unethical and duplicitous. Don't reward bad behaviour by going back to him.

Perhaps Kawa James can suggest a remedy. I would look online if there really is no other Kawai dealer in the vicinity.

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#1713474 - 07/14/11 07:12 PM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: 10fingers
Perhaps Kawa James can suggest a remedy.


This matter is between the customer and the dealer - I don't believe it's necessary for Kawai (either Japan or America) to get involved.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1713509 - 07/14/11 08:52 PM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: sinopiano
.....
Today I took half day off travelled a long way to the store, only to find his manager wasn't there. The salesman told me they couldn't neither cover any tax, nor bring the price down. What was worse, they no longer offer the bench and the stand!

I'm not good at bargain. Is this a trick that dealers usually play? Should I still buy from them?


Some of Kawai's products are only sold by dealers. The MP10 is not one of those. So there is no reason to bother with those people. Buy it on-line and have it shipped to you.

That "I have to ask my manager" scam is the oldest salesman trick in the book. He knows perfectly well what he can do. But every used car salesman pulls it. The point is to make it seem like he is on your side.

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#1713516 - 07/14/11 09:08 PM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
Marlowe221 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 26
I haven't bought a DP (yet...) but I HAVE bought a lot of acoustic guitars over the years - some of them in the $2000 range.

If that happened to me I would definitely buy from someplace else, wouldn't matter if I were after a $100 Ibanez or a $2000 Martin.

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#1714253 - 07/16/11 12:55 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
The salesman called me back, he said they will stay firmly on that price, and not offer the stand. He let me think about it and call them if I still wanna order from them.

I feel they do not care about this customer anymore.

I'll browse some online stores now

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#1714333 - 07/16/11 07:31 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: ChrisA]
bfb Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 531
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
[quote=sinopiano].....

That "I have to ask my manager" scam is the oldest salesman trick in the book. He knows perfectly well what he can do. But every used car salesman pulls it. The point is to make it seem like he is on your side.


its called "buying a car".
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1714534 - 07/16/11 03:14 PM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: sinopiano
I feel they do not care about this customer anymore.


You've got it. Do not patronize this business.

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#1714830 - 07/17/11 01:14 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
dewar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 139
Originally Posted By: sinopiano
The salesman called me back, he said they will stay firmly on that price, and not offer the stand. He let me think about it and call them if I still wanna order from them.

I feel they do not care about this customer anymore.

I'll browse some online stores now


pfft I'd tell em where to stick his offer. Kraft gives ya a whole bundle of crap for a buck with their stuff.
http://www.kraftmusic.com/catalog/keyboards/88keykeyboards/index.asp?product=8641

Granted it's not a great bench but at least it's something to sit on. It's not the internet and big chains that kill businesses. It's poor hire choices.

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#1714876 - 07/17/11 04:16 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Wow, that's a great deal for just $1 extra.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1716067 - 07/19/11 12:39 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: dewar]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
Thank you for your information! I'll contact them to see if they can make it shipped to Canada.

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#1716094 - 07/19/11 01:24 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 319
That is an excellent deal. I hope they can do that for you!

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#1716748 - 07/19/11 09:12 PM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
Kraftmusic says they cannot do international business. I have no choice now.

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#1716771 - 07/19/11 09:51 PM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
RafaPolit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Quito, Ecuador
Welcome to the party Sinopiano! I know too well what it's like to have zero options... and now a days its even more frustrating. 15 years ago I knew our market and stock was very limited, but it was a theoretical knowledge... these days you see all the wonderful online purchasing options others have and we get stuck with local availability.

And you are in Canada! Imagine how it works on Ecuador smile . I really lucked out this time with my purchase as the place I bought mine is the only Roland distributor for the ENTIRE country! and carried a single unit (in floor display for less than a week) of the FP-7F. I took the liberty to contact Kawai James to check out local options and the closest one was a 30 hour car ride in a different country!

Sorry though that you had to face a sour store with gray moral values in terms of salesmanship. Hope you at least get to resolve the issue and end up, even after some bitter taste, with a beautiful DP with you. Best regards,

Rafa.
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1716849 - 07/19/11 11:46 PM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Sweetwater do ship to Canada and will price match
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1716868 - 07/20/11 12:20 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Maybe so, but I doubt they'll throw in all that extra gear for a $1.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1716916 - 07/20/11 01:10 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
My brother lives in BC, and he uses a service just over the US border that receives shipments for Canadians wishing to shop in American internet stores. I imagine such options exist all along the border. By brother just pops over to Bellingham, or somewhere, picks up his gear and takes it back over the border (and pays any import duties).

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#1716920 - 07/20/11 01:12 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
So what I forgot to say in my rushed post was, you could either have Kraft send it to one of these places, or shop at Sweetwater. Apart form the piano stand, I think you'll find the Kraft gear pretty cheapo.

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#1717076 - 07/20/11 09:03 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Musicians Friend ships to Canada too. I'd just wait until they run another one of their 15% off sales and call them up and order.

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#1717080 - 07/20/11 09:13 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
bmbutler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 225
Loc: North Carolina
It's a trick called bait and switch. Happens very often at car dealers.
_________________________
Bachelor of Music (church music)
Master of Church Music (organ, music education)
Piano Teacher since 1992
Church Musician since 1983

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#1717251 - 07/20/11 01:36 PM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
macbug Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 80
Loc: Vancouver
I live in Vancouver and I got my MP6 from KraftMusic by shipping it to Point Roberts Washington and driving across the border to pick it up. I called the only authorized Kawai dealer in town and they gave me a standard MSRP quote and at that price I could get FP7-F for cheaper locally. I bought this bundle http://www.kraftmusic.com/catalog/keyboards/88keykeyboards/index.asp?product=8534

though I did have to pay 12% HST when I carried it across the border unfortunately, but that's still 500 dollars cheaper than I would've paid in Canada.

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#1717737 - 07/21/11 03:53 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: macbug]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
Thanks for the information. I thought about that before, the problem is I have to get a US visa first. (I'm in Canada only for 11 month). My classmate says now the earliest day you can book for a visa interview is Aug 18th. Way too complicated.

And I'm sure we contacted the same local dealer (the one owned by a bunch of Chinese ppl).

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#1717742 - 07/21/11 04:12 AM Re: What kind of trick is this store playing? Trying to get MP10 [Re: sinopiano]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
Thanks for being so thoughful about my situation, guys. I really appreciated it.

The other online dealers that you mentioned has the same price as my crappy local dealer. But I don't think they'll offer free shipping and a stool.

Asking Kraftmusician to ship to the boarder would be a nice option only if I had a US visa. And it is even more difficult than normal Chinese passport holders since I'm doing a Chemistry PhD here.

So I shall either contact the local dealer again or give up MP10. Thinking optimistically, the local dealer offers a free stool and saves shipping cost, although they broke their word that they will offer a free stand and share some tax.

I just don't wanna deal with someone that I cannot trust and I'm sceptical about their after-sale service.

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