I just ordered Learn and Master Piano course. The more I read on this forum, Its more for accompaniment playing. I am new and just mostly want to play solo piano songs. Also maybe one day ragtime. I like it though because its more of a pop in dvd rather then books. I hate reading books. Someone was talking about pianoforall. Any thoughts.

I've just had a quick look at the Learn and Master Piano website. You note that it seems to be "more for accompaniment playing" (which intimates you are lookng for something else). I have only skimmed Piano For All and, IMHO, it too is focussed on accompaniment playing.

I hope that helps.

If you really want to learn a musical skill, skip the internet and find a way to hire a real live human teacher. If you can't afford it now, don't waste a single dime on courses marketed on the web. I really doubt if there is even one single person who has had no musical training and learned to play the piano with any personal satisfaction from these courses.

I think if you just want to play songs and have fun, then sometimes the online tutorials are a good way of developing your piano skills without all the background information.
It kind of gets you practically playing and then you can learn about the theory after wards if you want too. I think it's a modern way and a good idea. No harm in trying them.

Don't have 2nd thoughts. This is a wonderful course. Yes, it emphasizes playing with a group, but that's not the same as accompaniment. Will Barrow almost always has you learn a chord progression, then a song, etc., which you can play in isolation from the workbook, or play as a member of a combo using the CDs.

There's a lot of ear training in this course, plus a lot of theory and a lot of work reading music. It's not going to make you a professional, but I guarantee you're going to get your money's worth. Don't despair.

I am in the same situation you are and was thinking about ordering the Lear and Master piano course as well, then I stumbled on this course on you tube. This lady (Karen) has such an easy method to teach beginers and is very easy to understand. Take a look at some of her video's and let me know what you think. I have seen a few now and feel I'm getting alot out of them.

http://musicinnewcastle.com/beginning_piano_class_tutorials

Couldn't have said it better myself, Learn and Master is a great way to go.

Just curious. Why would you guarantee this?

Oh! yet another member of their phony forum, perhaps.

One more thing about learn and master piano. It completely ignores the importance of scales, the circle of fifths and key signatures. But there is so much information crammed into each lesson, one would have to do something like "learn to play the piano" to get anything out of it.

I am using that as well. I am also a beginners piano player. However, I find that the DVD is missing a lot of details related to Theory. I am also using this in conjunction with youtube videos from someone called Lypur.

The ultimate question is, where do you want to do in the future? Do you want to achieve a certain grade level on the RCM? What genre of music do you like playing solo with? Classical? Pop? Blues? Etc...The video is mostly oriented in modern music and barely any classical (I think near the end he lets you play a part of the Fur Elise?)

I'll tell you a bit of my goal and my plans for piano playing. Maybe it can help you or further help you in your direction. I want to end up at least in Grade 10 RCM (maybe ARCT 11). I am mostly (95%) going to play classical music and that's what got me interested in piano playing. Now this DVD along with YT will 110% not get me there. I am currently reviewing these videos for Theory and to better prepare myself before getting a tutor. I am learning some fingering techniques as well. This way once I get a tutor (which will be very soon), I won't have to sit through lessons on theory. This will save me some time and money imo. The tutor will be there to teach me things related to classical music.

So I highly recommend you get a tutor later. Also, choosing the right tutor is important as well. Choose one that is more oriented in the genre of music you plan on playing. I am sure that most tutors out there say that they are qualified to teach classical, but then their primary focus is on pop music. Therefore, they won't be as great compared to teachers that solely teach classical.

Again this is my plan and I'm only a beginner. Feel free to criticize my opinion (and anyone else can as well =)).

This is very important, because as you learn to play a little, your goals may change.

I have had several students who began on their own with the goal of just playing a few songs for fun.

But as they learned to play a little, their appetite was whetted, and they wanted more, and then more, and ultimately got hooked and wanted to play quite well.

The only problem was they started with a program that did not provide a solid foundation. Many of these quickie courses just teach you enough to play a small bit.

If and when you want to play beyond that level, you have a weak foundation that is full of knowledge holes, and also you very likely could have picked up some hand/body posture and useage habits that are quite difficult to overcome. And the unpleasant/difficult but necessary stuff, like tempo control with a metronome/counting, is very often ignored.

Its like a cooking course that says, "Learn cooking in X days!", and yes, they teach you to cook a dish or two, but they do not teach the fundamentals of cooking, such as how the spices interreact, and all the many other details that a culinary school would teach.

So you learn to cook a few things by rote, but you are not a knowledgable cook, and if you want to go further, you have no knowledge base upon which to proceed.

With those students, I have had to backtrack and start them at the very beginning, just as with a new-to-the-piano student, so as to make sure all the bases are covered.

Yes, they did learn a few things in the dvd or Youtube courses that slightly sped up the process, but to a person they all said that they wished they had started with a teacher, and the courses were basically a waste of money and time.

AllShookUp,
BTW, this is a superbly appropriate handle for you to use. Anyway, what's your big beef with Learn and Master and with the people who like it? Certainly it's not the be all and end all of piano instuction, and, no, it doesn't emphasize scales and theory as much as some other courses. But it's a pretty good course nonetheless.
And I am not a proselytizer, disciple, sycophant, or mouthpiece for Will Barrow and the course. I'm just a guy who bought it and thinks it's pretty cool.
I have a lot of other material, though, and they work together with the course.
Take a breath and relax.

This is an ongoing question, which is better, a teacher teaching in person, or online courses with PDFs, MP3s, videos, and sometimes access to email service, with questions. Just let me say that one doesn't have to rule out the other.

An interesting point of view from rocket88, who is talking from the experience of having taught piano students, who didn't progress until they got themselves a teacher. Maybe so, but I wonder if a full time music teacher would ever have anything negative to say about taking personal piano lessons.

Finally, as someone mentioned Andrew's Furmanczkys/Lypur's videos, as I know them quite well, let me point out that he is also a professional piano teacher, giving real life lessons to real people, for real dollars. I seriously doubt he would be teaching anything else on his videos than in person.

Why would I? If the teacher is a good one, there is no question a live caring experienced human sitting next to you at the piano on a weekly basis is better than a video on a computer screen.

If you don't think so, then we really have nothing to discuss.

Having said that, can some of the videos be helpful? Sure, but they are not a substitute for a teacher.

I have never yet seen a student that did not need to have an experienced person point out errors in their posture, tempo, fingering, etc. that the student had no clue about, nor could they see from their vantage point.

Even experienced concert pianists pay big money to go to master classes so another super player can observe and help them improve. How much more does a beginner need such advice?

BTW, If you check my past posts, I have had a lot of negative things to say about taking personal piano lessons if the teacher is unqualified to teach.(And quite a few are).

Could you please tell me where I said a video was better than a one on one teacher, or explain which of my words lead you to conclude this was my opinion?

Naturally, to have access to an experienced piano teacher/player (qualifications are not top priority in my mind, what counts is the quality of his/her service) is much better than a book or a video.

However there is another factor in this equation. Some people can not afford a teacher, and then a free YouTube lesson or PDF-files online are a blessing. Rocket88, maybe you have loads of money and I'm glad if you do, but that does not go for everyone else. Besides, some people who for example live in small towns, can't find a teacher, even if they could afford to get one.


See my words above about qualifications, but I'm sorry if I missed some of your posts and you believe I accused you of not saying something you did. I don't scan through older posts of other users much, mostly I just read the latest discussions Actually I said I wonder if you'd say anything negative about getting a teacher, being one yourself.

I was not implying you had any financial interests, just that it is normal for people in the same profession to stick together. Be it carpenters, doctors or piano teachers. There are always some common interests in every profession, even when there are no direct financial relations between the professionals. But it's good that you have pointed the finger at the quacks, after all who shouldn't?

Finally I'd like to add, since you talked about students developing wrong hand and body posture, by not having a teacher, let me say Lypur has an almost 24 minute long video, just covering the proper posture. Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-OpESpRYeI

The first video in the series (he has 40 videos, 20-40 minute long) is also about 24 minutes, and he takes at least five minutes explaining the proper way to move your fingers when playing.

Rocket88, I have to admit it's not the same thing as having a teacher in person explaining this, but you have to admit it's pretty close.

What you guys said pretty much covered what I had in mind. A good teacher is necessary if you are committed to play. If you don't wish to play harder pieces then the videos should suffice. Both videos and tutors have their befits. My suggestion was that you learn the fundamentals of the piano (ie Theory) through the instructional videos first, maybe play a few tunes here and there. Then later on if you can get access to a tutor, it would be a good idea to do so if you want to get serious. I hope this is similar to what you guys were thinking.

Learning theory thru videos (or books) is a great idea. But that is not the fundamentals of playing the piano.

Studying videos on playing first, then finding a teacher, is the opposite of what most teachers, and many non-teachers who play, recommend.

The reason is because it is the habits that are formed in the very beginning that stick and are very hard to undo.

There is an old saying, "The first piano teacher is the most important". The beginning lessons are where hand and body posture habits are formed, along with other foundational concepts.

I often tell people that, if they are not sure about going the full-tilt lesson route, to take at least a few lessons from someone who knows how to play well. It gets you started on the right foot (no pun intended!).

Then, if you cannot continue, you can go on from there on your own with videos, etc, but at least you will be situated right, and have a resource person in case you need assistance.

I think Deviatorz summed it nicely up. We pretty much agree that personal guidance is best, not to mention nicer (usually!) than glaring at a screen or a book.

For the last months I've been thinking if I'd get this woman teacher who lives closeby to give me a few lessons. I'd just take a lesson, get the fundamentals along with fitting material to practice, and a few more lessons to have her review if I'm progressing, stuck in a rut, or even going backwards.

OK Michael, deep breath taken . Everyone should choose a learning method that makes them happy and keeps their interest level up. However I have 2 beefs ( should that be pronounced "beeves" ) with the way learn and master markets their product. First, I fell for the perpetual "3 days only" sale which went on for about 2 YEARS after I purchased the course. I guess "take the money and run" is today's internet business norm, but I still have (a sort on an old school) problem with that. Second, is their silly and contrived student support forum. A newcomer may not see what's going on right away, but after a few weeks it becomes obvious that most of the members are either affiliates, company employee's or friends or family of the course authors. There is no such thing as "Whoville" on any real public forum. Except of course for this one

I noticed the same thing with Rocket Piano. I got it in october or november last year, with only a few days left of the offer, on their website. They still have a 3 days deadline, till July 31st. Will probably be August 1st tomorrow.

However I probably would have bought the course anyway. They were patient and helpful in answering my emails for assistance when I was following their program, although that's not included in the price.

Rocket Piano also seems to have these affiliates all around the internet, sometimes disguised as happy customers. It's strange that those affiliate sites (probably) turn up as first sites in a Google search, so it's hard to find a negative or just an honest and critical review of their product. Do they have ways to score high in search engines, or do they buy themselves up in the row of search results?

It must be said though, that both Piano For All and Rocket Piano are a lot cheaper than Learn And Master Piano. I doubt that L&M is that much better that it justifies charging more than three times the price of the other two. $149 versus $39.

I think there's a big difference in Learn and Master Piano compared to the other courses mentioned. It's 20 DVD's with backing CD's and a printed book as opposed to printed materials that are downloaded with some built in videos. A pretty massive course really. That's not a criticism of the other courses. Just pointing out why the the difference in price.

Whether or not this makes it a better course or not, i have no idea. I do think Learn and Master is pretty good though, if your not looking too much to get into theory and the technical side of things.

As for the sales thing, it's only annoying if you don't feel you got value for money. Lots of other industries work this way, the auto industry as an example.